(Close Window) Topic: "I have to be honest, but it is out of our budget"...
Message: Posted by: kippteacher1 (Jan 8, 2009 5:51pm)
I am looking for some suggestions, thoughts, etc on what to say to prospective clients that call for information about the act, but after hearing the price, they say something like, "it is too expensive" or "out of our budget". I don't want to bargin and change the price, but I also don't want to be rude about it either. Is "Sorry, I understand" sufficient?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: thescienceworks (Jan 8, 2009 10:03pm)
Hey,

When I get that line I make a snap judgment as to whether doing the show at a discounted price would benefit me in any way, and what I might get out of it; or if the organization is one that I support and feel close to (either geographically in my neighborhood, or generally in my heart) and feel like helping out. If neither is the case, I tell that that I understand, and that they can always find a wide range of prices if they shop around, BUT... my prices reflect my 25 years plus teaching and entertaining children, my undergraduate and masters degree in education, and my overall experience in the field of education. "You can probably find someone with less experience at a lower price, since we all start somewhere, but if you do, make sure that you get references and referrals from their other customers". This, I hope, tells them two things. First, my experience is worth the extra money I might charge (although I don't feel that I charge outrageous prices). And second, the reason they called me in the first place is usually because of a referral, and I want them to remember that one of their friends gave them my name, and there was a reason for that.
Does this work? Not very often. But if people have a budget they need to stick to, especially in these times, there is not much you will be able to do to change that number that they are bringing to the table.

Hope this helps,

-Steve
Message: Posted by: coachc (Jan 11, 2009 12:16am)
Many times I ask what a person's budget is, and see if I can deliver a watered down shorter version of the type of show they require in their price range, but I learned a long time ago to not sell myself, and my shows, short. If you provide quality entertainment, don't be willing to compromise too much to get a gig. My web site provides potential clients with several versions of the shows I offer, and this seems to cover most of the bases.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jan 11, 2009 9:34am)
You can also see out sponsors - companies that might have an interest in offering your show to the facility. For example, I've had dentists sponsor my dental hygiene show to day cares and elementary schools, a local bookstore is a regular sponsor for my magic of reading program and I received a grant for my math show. You might talk the local growers association into sponsoring a fruit & veggie show or the local fire department to support a grant for a fire safety show. I remember years back seeing a "See the U.S.A." magic show sponsored by the local Chevrolet dealers. Use your imagination.

I would not recommend reducing your prices or referring the business to someone less skilled. A bad act can kill future engagements for you and other top performers. Offering a reduced show - if you can do it without affecting the quality or the impact - is a good albeit last ditch alternative.
Message: Posted by: masterR (Jan 14, 2009 4:12pm)
What I do is...

I say: "yes I hear what you are saying,but..its to much money comparing to what?"

what ever they say back..always let them know you understand,but comparing to what?...if you understand what I mean...
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Jan 14, 2009 4:37pm)
I always ask how much they were planning on spending. Sometimes I can find a beginner who will work for the cheaper rate but on occassion I have warned people they will not get professional entertainment for what they are offering.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 19, 2009 11:15am)
I came up with the NAME YOUR OWN PRICE MAGIC SHOW!

That's right; YOU tell me what you can afford and I'll work out a show that will be approiate for that amount of money.

In these tough times of economic downturn, it's time to give back and help where we can. Just because people are loosing jobs, homes, retirement funds, etc. Their children STILL have a birthday coming up. And that's where we/you/I come in...


Besides the "name your price" show, I also now offer the
Recession Buster $99.00 special.

I offer these to residents in my local area. I scale down the show (BUT..it is still GREAT) and give the parents some little extras, balloons, gifts for the kid(s) and so on.

You can get a lot of great give-away prizes at the dollar store.

These two ideas have worked well for me since I started offering them after last halloween. But it also keeps me working and having a chance at more oppertunities with other parents at the parties.
Message: Posted by: tiriri (Jan 25, 2009 9:24am)
The "Recession Buster $99.00 special" is a little bit more expensive than what people pay for kids shows here in Ecuador! An economist once suggested that the price of a big mac in different countries is a good indicator of the local economy; maybe we should do the same with magic show prices! Ha-ha!

Anyway I do get the same line about the price often and I tell the that there is a local association of magicians that has agreed to set the prices and that lowering my price will be non ethical competition for other magicians. It is the true and it works out fine.

Giovanni.
Message: Posted by: jimhlou (Jan 26, 2009 9:42pm)
Well, I'm gonna give it a try. My first "recession buster" $100.00 magic show is this Saturday Feb. 7. It's a birthday party for an 8 year old boy. No chair suspension, no liquids, no assistant - just me and a suitcase. We'll see how it goes.

Jim
Message: Posted by: kenscott (Jan 26, 2009 9:59pm)
I will be interested to see how this turns out. I think lowering your price even if you take things out to make it smaller means it will take you longer to raise your rates again, IMO.
Message: Posted by: arniemagic1 (Jan 26, 2009 10:45pm)
I offer different types of shows at different prices. I've found that when they have a choice they usually make a choice. (Of course sell the top price show first)

Hi Ken! Arnie here about to open in Shanghai.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 27, 2009 7:17am)
Quote:

On 2009-01-26 21:59, kenscott wrote:
I will be interested to see how this turns out. I think lowering your price even if you take things out to make it smaller means it will take you longer to raise your rates again, IMO.


It works GREAT for me...I have NO problem getting high paying corporate shows. And I also get the money I want for adult parties and formal affairs.

I look at it like this, you can go into a restaurant and order different meals at different prices. The food is still the same high quality. I might order a hamburger, you might order the Porterhouse...both will be great.

By offering different packages tells (my) customers that I have many options and surely one that will meet their budget.

It's not like you have just ONE type of program and then are trying to get different rates. THAT will never fly.

Same thing goes for the name your own price...even if you just show up for 15 minutes for $50.00, just to do a few tricks to make people happy, where else can you get that kind of money?!

let's face it, it's obscene, the amount of money we make compared to others. Some people have to take a part time job a few nights per week just to make an extra $50.00.

It's time to give back and do someting to help others.

Just my (25 years experience and) humble opinion.

Good luck!
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 27, 2009 11:26am)
I am at a point in my career, where I'm not willing to work for a discounted price. I see a certain value in what I do, and I know my customers see that value, too. The people who don't see that value aren't my customers. Kind of simple, eh?

I have the opinion that some customers are for me, and some are for other entertainers. I don't get phased when I lose a potential booking (I once wrote a post about this topic, "Posturing"... I was re-reading it yesterday over on the KIDabra forum). I just think "Next!" and move on.

And, if I am losing lots of potential bookings, that means I am drawing the wrong types of prospects to me. It is my fault. I need to go out there, and actively market to the right types of prospects who don't have the price objections.

Now, do I treat a prospect rudely if they can't afford me? No way.

If they say it is out of their budget, I ask what their budget is. They tell me, and I offer them the names of some other entertainers. But I also explain that like many things in life, they often get what they pay for.

I also offer to mail them an information kit.

If they decline, I know they weren't sincerely interested.

If they say yes, then I know the interest is there.

BTW, I have competed against performers who were quoting half of what I was quoting, and I still got the booking. The prospect even asked if I would match the other fee, and I explained that I couldn't. Why did I still get the booking? Because of being nice, having good customer relations skills, good sales skills, and offering the best solution for their needs.

- Donald

P.S. There are ethical ways of negotiating, where you aren't really just reducing your fee for no reason. If you are reducing your show by $50, then ask for something in return worth $50 to you. You ask for something from the customer, in value for the discount. Perhaps you reach the agreement that they will write a testimonial letter for you (I get a letter all of the time without offering a discount, but you could place a value on it), or they will get you another show that same day, or that they will book you for several shows over the course of a few months (get the dates up front, and put in the contract that the discount is a condition of a multi-show booking), or that they will give you a certain number of names (referrals), etc.

Also, don't forget the option of bartering. This is where you get paid partially, or fully, in something other than cash. I've been paid part of my fee in movie tickets, book store gift certificates, swim passes, and newspaper advertising, when I've done bartering over the years.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Feb 1, 2009 3:32pm)
Quote:

On 2009-01-25 09:24, tiriri wrote:
Anyway I do get the same line about the price often and I tell the that there is a local association of magicians that has agreed to set the prices and that lowering my price will be non ethical competition for other magicians. It is the true and it works out fine.


I see two problem with that. One, I question the legality of that. Is there such a thing as "price fixing" in magic?

Two, what happens when they find others who offer different rates? Will they think you are a liar?

.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Feb 2, 2009 1:01pm)
Quote:

On 2009-01-27 07:17, Justin Style wrote:

let's face it, it's obscene, the amount of money we make compared to others. Some people have to take a part time job a few nights per week just to make an extra $50.00.



I respectfully disagree. If you consider the amount of time, effort and resources that we each put into our acts and divide that into most hourly performance rates, many may find themselves grossly underpaid. On the surface two hundred, five hundred or a thousand dollars for a one hour performance may seem "obscene"...but every penny should be justified by our efforts. $6,000 may seem a lot to pay an orthodontist for sticking bits of metal and wire to teeth, but it took him eight or more years to learn where to stick those bits to do the most good.

Further, discounting one's rate suggests that the performer is not now nor was he ever worthy of the rate. Don't discount - increase your perceived value. Add value to your show to justify your current rate in today's market.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Feb 2, 2009 3:32pm)
Okay...sounds good in theory.

But...

EVERYONE, whether you are in the car, restaurant, fashion or film business is reducing their rate.

A list movie actors are taking less pay.

Five star restaurants are offering price reduced meals.

Broadway is offering package deals.

The list goes on.

Yet...

You (the royal you) a no name nobody local magician is able to pass up work because they won't meet your fee.

Because you think your value is so high and that what you do, so unique that it would be the biggest insult to even think of offering something people can afford.

First of all, magicians are a dime a dozen. Many, most and if not all of them doing the birthday party scene (as well as Vegas, TV and on and on) are doing the same tricks.

But not you. You're different. You are better. You are worth the price you charge and nothing will make you change that.

Teamsters don't make the money magicians make...and they work way harder. Magicians don't make what doctors make because they ain't smart enough to be one (Yeah, I know there are a few doctors here in the game...)

So get off your high horse, stop lying (to us and yourself) and wake up. Times are tough for EVERYBODY. And everybody is making less than they did when it was good.

If you are so limited in the service you offer, then it's YOU who is not making the money. If you’re trying to sell one show for different prices then you’re a schmuck. Try to come up with several types that are budget friendly and available for a diverse group of people.

A steak at Peter Luger can run $300. But you know what, they also serve hamburgers for a lot less.

Gee, I guess I won't eat there, if they lower their prices they can't be that good.

See how stupid your argument is?

I offer several packages.

I have a hospital program, a close-up show, a stage show, an adult only show, a private in home birthday show package, just to mention a few.

If you want to see my world record show, you must pay for that. Yet, if you live in my neighborhood and want me to stop over for a few minutes to entertain your party guests...sure, why not? I travel with skills, not luggage.

That's called giving back.

Not ripping people off with some hack magic that you do.

So sit at home and when you pass up those cheap shows, call me, I'll do them. And I'll also take all the referrals and extra bookings from them...


I love these guys who sit on their high horses…

“Well you won’t be able to get your price back up”…

“People will perceive you to be not that good”…

“I tell them that it’s not possible to lower my price”…

Blah, blah, blah.



Suckers…
Message: Posted by: kenscott (Feb 2, 2009 4:31pm)
WOW justin do tell us how you feel!!!

I guess I am one of those suckers. I don't mind working with people. But when a school calls me that I charge 600.00 for one show and now they want 7 shows for 700.00 there is a problem. I guess I will sit on my high horse on this one.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Feb 2, 2009 4:54pm)
"Oh, you are so right, Justin! Bless you and thank you for helping us poor stupid sinners to see the light! Hallelujah! How could we mere mortals have been so blind! Thank you for sharing your incredibly godlike wisdom and flawless insight with us! How marvelous that you can instantly see into everyone's market and divine everyone's strategies! We shall be forever grateful! Oh, praise be! I can see the light! Blah, Blah, Blah..."

Talk about high horses...
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Feb 2, 2009 5:01pm)
Ken,

I have to agree with you. I have different types of shows, and some cost more thasn others (birthday versus christmas party for example), but none are ever discounted.

I guess I will continue to make my obscene amounts of money.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 2, 2009 5:09pm)
Hi Justin -

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

But, please let everyone charge whatever they want. And how about dropping the judgemental attitude?

You have no idea how business is for others. Some aren't struggling.

You are assuming that other people are sitting at home, out of work, because their fees are higher than yours (or too high period).

If a performer is struggling for work, it could be the "price" (or, what a customer sees as value vs. cost, which is really a different issue).

However, many other things contribute to a successful sale and the number of shows a performer does, aside from "price"... other things such as ability to demonstrate they can meet the customer's needs / wants / desires, quality of salesmanship, rapport, friendliness, trust, perceived value, word of mouth credibility, amount of marketing / lead generation, their ability to deliver on what they promise and build good word of mouth (referrals) and repeat business with past customers, evidence that their customers are satisfied at this price level, etc.

If a performer is struggling, they need to analyze for themselves what their specific problem is. To assume that every problem is an issue of "price", is like trying to fix every repair in your house or with your car, with a hammer, when other tools exist in the toolbox.

And again, some performers aren't struggling because they understand the other elements necessary to make their business work.

- Donald

P.S. If the primary reason that most of your customers hire you is because of the price, then you have a big problem. Someone can always offer a lower price.

If price ruled, all that would exist would be the least expensive restaurants, the least expensive cars, and the least expensive homes. However, items and services with middle and higher prices do exist. Think about why that is, and how you can adapt it to your service business.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Feb 2, 2009 6:58pm)
Who said anything about "struggling"? I work constantly. I'm a full time performing magician in NYC. I certainly don't depend on my living by working birthday parties...

However -

Donald Trump is hurting. Atlantic City, Vegas, Branson are all seeing revenue drop - even record numbers. Wall Street, corporate American and business everywhere is down. But you guys are doing great.

Yeah...okay.

Stop going to the same frat parties as Michael Phelps... : smoke:


Rock on!
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Feb 2, 2009 7:22pm)
It is a fact that even in difficult economic times, people will spend money on their kids - hence why children's performers for the most part are doing just fine.

You are working full time as a magician - that's great. What venue do you do because you sure seem to have a disdain for children's performers. "I certainly don't depend on my living by working birthday parties... "

Makes me wonder why you would post in this section, but hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Feb 2, 2009 8:12pm)
Not EVERYONE is hurting! I for one booked more shows in January than I ever have for the beginning of the year. The rest of year is looking pretty darn good too. I have yet lowered my prices!

The problem with lowering your price is that it can easily become, "how low will this guy really go?" If your price is usually $500.00 and the client wants a deal for $300.00 and you take the deal, you have actually communicated to them that your fee of $500.00 really was too high and you end up sounding like you are desperate.

I, like Ken and others will "work with people" as long as they are not trying to take advantage of me.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 2, 2009 8:48pm)
Quote:

On 2009-02-02 18:58, Justin Style wrote:
Donald Trump is hurting. Atlantic City, Vegas, Branson are all seeing revenue drop - even record numbers. Wall Street, corporate American and business everywhere is down. But you guys are doing great.

Yeah...okay.

Stop going to the same frat parties as Michael Phelps... : smoke:


Rock on!


Why is it that when some people say they are doing ok, they get accused of being dishonest / stretching facts (aka called a liar), or accused of being on something?

Can't some people have a different perspective / experience / life story than you, and that still be ok?

- Donald
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Feb 3, 2009 9:57am)
One more thing to really consider when "dropping your fee" is called R-E-S-P-E-C-T

I very much beleive that if you stick to your grounds and don't lower your fee, you gain more respect. If you take what you can get, you almost guarantee yourself no respect at all when you arrive. People (clients) respect you based on the amount they are paying you.

I once heard Steve Taylor say, "charge the client $500.00 and you'll unload your own car, charge them $1500.00 and they will unload it for you." How true!
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 3, 2009 10:01am)
That's true, as I've had it happen lots.

Even for other markets. Even for birthday parties!

For $300 birthdays, I have a lot of customers who help me pack in my equipment, and help me bring it back out afterwards.

I don't remember that happening when I used to charge less ($100-$150 range).

There's also a higher level of gratitude that seems to accompany the respect.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Feb 3, 2009 1:40pm)
Again with the put down terms like toy demonstrator...

Maybe I don't have awards out the backside (there's an endearing image) but I know that I have created memories for thousands of children and families over the past 25+ years.

I have enjoyed seeing the laughter and smiles on the faces of children, their parents and grandparents and have kids stop me on the street because they remember seeing me at a local event.

I make a living, but more importantly to me, I have a good life.

I don't have to make myself feel better by waving accomplishments in front of everyone or putting down others for theirs.

I also personally know performers who are all that you claim to be and more but the one thing they are that you don't seem to be, is that they are supportive of those who may not have reached their stage yet.

I belong to Lions International and part of our Code of Ethics is that it is not neccessary to build up our business by tearing down someone elses.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 3, 2009 1:41pm)
It's a shame we can't discuss a topic (reducing fees / keeping them the same / etc.) But instead, some want to talk about who they are, or suggest how bad others are.

Let's talk about the strength and weaknesses of the subject, not about ourselves or others.

When people attack others as a part of their strategy to defend a position, it sometimes implies they don't have enough evidence or rationale to defend their position. Can you please defend your position without the put downs?

- Donald

P.S. I offer several price points (different packages) for many of my shows. However, my lowest package is priced at $225 for a birthday show. I have a couple of other birthday packages as well, for higher prices. For me, I choose not to go lower than that, because of the value I place on my service. Others place a higher or lower value on their service, in addition to the other factors that determine a show fee.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Feb 3, 2009 1:55pm)
Why are you guys continuing to waste your breath on this fool? He doesn't want a rational discussion. He wants to reinforce his enormous ego at your expense. Let him find his fix elsewhere; we have businesses to run.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 3, 2009 1:59pm)
Skip chimed in before I edited one part of my last post.

At the beginning of my "P.S.", I wanted to comment that no one was disagreeing about the idea of offering a variety of options at a range of prices. However, with certain shows, in certain markets, there isn't a variety of options. It's this show at this price.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Feb 3, 2009 2:03pm)
LOL...

If someone in my neighborhood wants me to stop over for a few minutes and entertain the party, for $100.00, call anytime.

I'm the BEST magician...in my price range!
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 3, 2009 2:16pm)
And, that's fine with me. Charge whatever you want.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: abbylondon (Feb 9, 2009 9:26am)
Can't remember where I heard this, but it may be relevant to this discussion:

A tourist allowed a painter (Picasso) to do his portrait on the street one day.
It turned out that it was a great portrait.
The tourist asked "How much? I might buy it."
Picasso said "Five thousand dollars." (or francs or whatever)
The tourist said "WHAT? It only took you 30 minutes to paint it!"
Picasso said "That's not true. It took me my whole life up to this moment to be able to paint it."

If you work your tail off for decades in order to develop an ability to deliver something really special, and if people can see that it is really special, then you can charge accordingly. Just a thought.

Regards,
A not-too-cheap magician
http://www.AbbyLondon.com
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (Feb 12, 2009 11:31pm)
I agree that offering certain incentives can stimulate short term bussiness But I disagree with just dropping prices because someone says that's too much. I find that most of the folks who call me with that kind of an attitude are not happy no matter what your offer is. My prices are average for our market here and with in that average I have the room to offer several packages. for instance I performed last weekend for $275 and will be doing the same show in a different town for $375 this weekend. I put together a few special shows for select group situations and price according to the cicrumstance.(read Blue and Gold banquet offers) However I do not recommend slashing your prices. Instead as Donald and Skip have already pointed out you have to build the value of what you do in the minds of your clients. I am arguably the higest priced guy in town and yet Im bussier than ever. This is due to providing a great show and My customer skills being top notch. I have always used Under promise over perform methods.
Some basic salesmanship must be used when the client calls. you have to have them agreeing to your show before you ever lay out the prices. I typically will do the entire speach and Then give the price of good, better and best options. The folks 10-1 pick the best price.
Yes you should ask Their Budget But do not reccomend a refferal to a lesser performer. You should be able to help them afford your rates. (if you have to have a corporate sponsor for a birthday show maybe you could discount a little) Finding a sponsor for their event is a great way to get your fee. Rememeber if you go into a fast food joint you don't argue price. you get what you want. the same applies here. They have already decided that you are who they want. sell your self and you will be surprised.
Justin if you are doing $99 in NYC your are selling your self short. (even if the financial markets are a ghost town)
Remember every one your prices affect everyone. if everyone starts cutting prices then non of us will have any work.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Feb 12, 2009 11:41pm)
I would also like to suggest the theory, that if you are offering a great show and it is only $100, then you are likely to be doing 600+ shows per year.

The demand should exist, likely with very little marketing. Word of mouth should expand like wildfire. Because you are over-delivering value by a long shot, vs. what they are paying. (You should always over-deliver on value, so that is not my arguement.)

If you aren't doing that volume of shows, then something is wrong (and you have already eliminated the arguement that it could be the rate).

If McDonald's (TM) decided to start selling Big Mac's for 99 cents everyday, instead of $3.50, the demand is likely to increase in a signicant way.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: kendavis (Feb 19, 2009 9:15pm)
I have to agree with Ken Scott. When the recession started to hit the east coast in October, I started to lower my rates. As word got out I found more than the usual number of prospects bargaining for a lower price. I returned to my normal rate structure and have not suffered any loss of jobs. This leads me to think that once the word gets out about your willingness to bargain then people expect to barter whether they can afford your price or not!

My minimum price starts at $150. On the East Coast that is more than fair. Considering the amount of time I have put into advertising, practicing, preparing, loading and unloading the equipment, and the thousands of dollars I have spent on tricks I don't feel that I am being overpaid.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Feb 21, 2009 10:19am)
Quote:

On 2009-02-12 23:41, Donald Dunphy wrote:
I would also like to suggest the theory, that if you are offering a great show and it is only $100, then you are likely to be doing 600+ shows per year.


Yeah, but who wants to do 600 shows and only make 60 grand (pre-tax)? That's an average of 2 per day, every day .... holidays, weekends, etc.
Message: Posted by: MikeHMagic (Feb 26, 2009 12:26am)
I am currently offering an economy buster birthday show in addition to my normal 3 packages (silver,gold, & platinum), I explane that the eco buster is a shorter version of my silver package. So far people are booking the platinum, hope the trend continues.
Just my 2cents
Gus
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 24, 2009 9:41pm)
My "economy buster" is: $99 for 30 minutes of balloons sculptures along with a few gags and pocket tricks...

Really 30 minutes doesn't get a heck of alot...but in 2 hours I have 400 dollars to walk in with my balloon busking bag, shinking head opticol illusion and a few sponge balls.. 30 minutes I'm gone!
Message: Posted by: BrianJ (May 2, 2009 1:00pm)
The best approach to keeping away from the bargaining and potential loss of the business is providing the customer with options ranging from low to high. Three levels will work as others have posted in here. I like the silver/gold/platinum approach.
Magic at kids birthday parties is uncommon when you think about how many birthdays there are, at least where I live. For me, it is so common to hear kids say "this was the best birthday party" after the performance. They really like it better than the bounce house or going to play at a gymboree or something like that. That kind of word of mouth is good for you and then you have more parents asking about booking you.

Here is the challenge though - if you are going to be performing in the same neighborhood multiple times - you have to switch it up ie different performance, more practice, more cost. I did my daughters birthday last month. She said to me a few weeks before "daddy, I want all new magic this time"...Of course she got it. This of course is another topic.

Brian
Message: Posted by: Professor DoDad (May 2, 2009 2:11pm)
I might be a little different in my show types but I do agree with Ken. Just to add...people will pay for what they want. Living in Orlando...Disney during the spring break this year had their largest number of people in 7yrs.

If they want your talent they will pay for it.
Message: Posted by: BrianJ (May 9, 2009 12:37pm)
I second that!

They get what they pay for.
Message: Posted by: gordon russ (Jun 8, 2009 10:39pm)
Hey guys, Just a quick note, I live in the Detroit Metro Area, the home of GM and Americas highest unemployment. My summer is busier than last year. This year I have raised the price of my library show from $300 to $350 I have more libraries booked this year than last. I do give a discount if the they block book two libraries at the same time its $325 per show and 3 libraries the same day $300 per show. I do find my self driving a bit further to get the gigs. I have done a lot more promotion than in the past because of the economy. (mostly phone calls and e-mails) I only only regret that I did not hustle as much when times were better. I believe there is a lot of work out there but you may have to hustle a bit more for it and expand your working area.

I do remember reading and article in an old magic magazine, the interviewer asked Karol Fox if he still does kids show he replied "Sure, I can always use a new pair of pants"

Gordon Russ
Message: Posted by: ptigue (Jul 3, 2009 3:58pm)
A musician friend of mine said that when someone asks him, "how much?" he always replies, "Well, what's in your budget?" He said that sometimes if he charges $500 for a show, and they say they have a $800 entertainment budget, all of the sudden it's, "well, that's interesting, because we charge $600." Also, if they have a budget of $300, then he tells them that he usually charges $500 but he could do it for 3. Still getting paid, regardless.

Also, he said that if people complain about prices, he just tells them they're not paying for the 1 hour show, they're paying for 20 years of practice.
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jul 13, 2009 12:05am)
There are times you give to the children, then there are times you need to set aside for yourself.

The KIDabra Conference is one of those times.
Message: Posted by: mota (Jul 6, 2010 10:57pm)
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Message: Posted by: Julie Carpenter (Jul 8, 2010 8:49am)
Ive just done a show for over 30 under 3's - infact probably under 2 1/2s.
30 tinies and their chatty mums.
It was a great show, only 2 cried and a few babies fell asleep.( well they were only a few weeks old). The parents were unbelievably attentive - for mums!
One mother asked my birthday party prices and I believe it was being discussed as 'easy money' and 'rolling in it' by her and a group of ladies I saw on my way out.

I didn't comment, but did wonder how any one of them would have fared out front.
Message: Posted by: Skip Way (Jul 8, 2010 9:37am)
Quote:

On 2010-07-08 08:49, Julie Carpenter wrote:
One mother asked my birthday party prices and I believe it was being discussed as 'easy money' and 'rolling in it' by her and a group of ladies I saw on my way out.


Two year olds! You're a brave, gifted performer, Julie! :) I get that as well. The most frequent question I get from clients is "How many shows do you do a week?" When they put two-and-two together their next question is usually, "Why aren't you driving a Mercedes?" They just don't realize the costs, skill sets and risks associated with what we do.

Keep "raking it in," Julie! :)
Message: Posted by: Julie Carpenter (Jul 9, 2010 7:30am)
Hi Skip

It was an interesting situation at this show. The old ladies, who have dealt with these mums at the toddler group every week for weeks and weeks, wished me the best of luck in getting them and their kids to cooperate

It turned out to be the best toddler show I've done in ages. I did 40 mins of dancing, singing and magic.

I'm hoping to share some of my ideas at the convention. If not formally, informally.
Message: Posted by: ERIC (Jul 9, 2010 11:06am)
I've had occasions where a mom would say something like "But it is only a kids party!" after I quote my price. I then ask them when was the last time they were able to make twenty kids sit still for an hour? THAT takes ability that is honed over a long period of time. I have also had some ask "what about the $75.00 or $100.00 show?" to which I reply "That is where the young teenager just starting out gets dropped off by dad, does a few tricks, not a show, and gets picked up by dad after an hour. He/she is learning the ropes and developing their show and talents. There is nothing wrong with that because we all started out that way, but I've developed those talents a long time ago and now you get a full live interactive show that is guaranteed to entertain not only the guest of honor and his or her guests, but the parents and friends as well."

What is really funny about this is that these are the people that usually wind up giving a 50-75 dollar tip on top of my fees, and become some of my best clients and give great referrals.

Bottom line, offer a few different packages, work with people IF you see fit and are comfortable doing so.

There are so many things that come into play such as distance, tolls, timing, privite home,school,company ,consumables. The list goes on and on, and YOU are the only one who can really know what it's worth so therefore YOU are the only one who can set your price.
Message: Posted by: clamon86 (Sep 4, 2010 9:28am)
Easy solution.

Choose how much you want to charge for a magic show. If they can't afford it move on to the next client.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 9, 2010 8:13pm)
I don't mind if people don't like my prices and hang up on me. I know what my competition charges, and I'm about average. If you start doing $100 shows then $100 is all your show is worth. If you start doing free jobs then everyone will want a free show. Take a little pride in your work, and let the bargain hunters go else where. I took my add out of our local parents magazine because I was tired of getting "take it or leave it" offers.
Message: Posted by: MillardGrubb (Sep 12, 2010 3:33pm)
It seems to me after doing shows for over thirty years that there's always room for discussion. I tend to charge a higher price than the competition because of my experience and variety. Generally, if people are trying to get the cheapest performer they can, you'll find out right away.

In general, however, I like what a number of performers have said, charge for the value. If you have a GOOD show with VALUE, you'll get your price. Think about it, if you are doing birthday parties.... little birthday parties... you can STILL make 50 grand a year... which ain't bad. :)

Add into the mix other types of shows and you can boost your income some more. If someone balks at your price EVERY TIME you get a call, then MAYBE you need to change a price point. But if you are getting a groan here and there, you are probably OK. Think of the value you are offering!

I actually got MORE shows when I raised my price....

No matter what happens to the economy, there are ALWAYS people with money who will pay.... you've just got to find them.

Warmly,

Millard
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Nov 6, 2010 12:54am)
Quote:

On 2009-01-08 17:51, kippteacher1 wrote:
I am looking for some suggestions, thoughts, etc on what to say to prospective clients that call for information about the act, but after hearing the price, they say something like, "it is too expensive" or "out of our budget". I don't want to bargin and change the price, but I also don't want to be rude about it either. Is "Sorry, I understand" sufficient?

Thanks!


Consider this..why do people buy a rolex watch rather than a cheapy wal-mart watch? Maybe offer several packages with a deluxe package that has everything for so little more than the other packages. What can you add to your services that would be of value to your customers that wouldn't cost you anymore money?

I would strongly suggest Jack Turks 90 Course at it's highest....I have been able to turn 167.00 birthday parties into 225-250. I even had a client book my competitor for the last 2 years, but decided to go with me this year b/c I offer so much more! Jack Turks course will pay for itself in one booking. Then again, if you live in West Virginia I would hope he wouldn't sell it to you...ha ha..it's just that darn valuable!
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Nov 6, 2010 1:03am)
Quote:

On 2009-07-03 15:58, ptigue wrote:
A musician friend of mine said that when someone asks him, "how much?" he always replies, "Well, what's in your budget?" He said that sometimes if he charges $500 for a show, and they say they have a $800 entertainment budget, all of the sudden it's, "well, that's interesting, because we charge $600." Also, if they have a budget of $300, then he tells them that he usually charges $500 but he could do it for 3. Still getting paid, regardless.

Also, he said that if people complain about prices, he just tells them they're not paying for the 1 hour show, they're paying for 20 years of practice.


If they ask price..I like to say... Well we have many different packages avaliable... each designed to fit almost any familes needs and budget.

It's important to establish an emotional connection before discussing price right away. Try to detour the question by saying...well I am not sure if I am the right entertainer for you, but let me ask you a few questions to see if I have a show that will fit your needs...how many kids? Whats the age group? etc
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Nov 6, 2010 1:06am)
Quote:

On 2010-09-04 09:28, clamon86 wrote:
Easy solution.

Choose how much you want to charge for a magic show. If they can't afford it move on to the next client.


I like this advice....our marketing/advertising efforts should attract those who are truly able to afford us. I dropped my parent magazine ad b/c they don't want to listen to my ideas, and the calls were price checkers.
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Nov 6, 2010 1:20am)
Quote:

On 2009-02-02 18:58, Justin Style wrote:
Who said anything about "struggling"? I work constantly. I'm a full time performing magician in NYC. I certainly don't depend on my living by working birthday parties...

However -

Donald Trump is hurting. Atlantic City, Vegas, Branson are all seeing revenue drop - even record numbers. Wall Street, corporate American and business everywhere is down. But you guys are doing great.

Yeah...okay.

Stop going to the same frat parties as Michael Phelps... : smoke:


Rock on!


I have seen success and over the last year dedicated my life to investing in marketing products/coaches. I just had my best month ever since in business...October was amazing. Justin here are a few things I would like to share with you from a book I have been reading...

"everything started in Him, and finds its purpose in Him" Colossians 1:16b (msg)

life's not about us

If you want answers to life's biggest questions...don't rely on worldly knowledge...ask the creator..he has your owner manual.
He has designed a glorious living for us..all we have to do is ask him what it is!
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Nov 7, 2010 9:20am)
My son in law is looking for a play house for his daughter. He told me that the place I recommended prices were too high. I asked him how many prices he got, and he told me only one. I asked him how did you know that his prices was too high, and he mumbled something under his breath about the prices should be lower. I waited until he went home before I laughed at his unrealistic expectations.
Message: Posted by: JimbosMagic (Nov 8, 2010 6:12am)
I tell the moms they can have me for a £175 and have a great party. Or they can book joe bloggs for £50 cheaper and waste £125.
Message: Posted by: KC Cameron (Mar 17, 2012 9:11am)
Wow Skip, way to take the high road!

It all boils down to what we are willing to do for others. Everyone seems to be focused on the money - wow. I do kid's parties because I love doing kids parties. I certainly don't want to be taken advantage, but not everyone has the cash to pony up for a magician. On the other hand, I never had an entertainer at any party when I was a kid.

I ask myself, is doing this gig going to take food from my family's table (if you saw me, you would know I like to eat!)? If not, do I feel the client is trying to take advantage of me? If not, then I will probably offer to discount it for them.

Now, as I said before, I actually like doing shows, I'm not in it for the money - but we do need to eat too .

I have found that generally people believe you are as good as you charge, and treat you accordingly. I also find that when asked for a discount, and I refer to it as a charity discount, it separates the wheat from the chaff. Few private individuals or companies that are trying to take advantage of you like to be considered charity.

If it is a non-profit or school, I just ask how much money the person calling makes. If they are a volunteer, I suggest they help the organization they belong to with the cost, since I am not a member I should not asked to provide such a donation. If they are paid, and sometimes if not, I ask them if they would be willing to volunteer "x" amount at a charity of my choice, or if they are willing to do some work for me. This separates the wheat from the chaff too.

All said, I do discount my prices to all charities (if I can afford it), and ones closer to my heart I do for free. Of course, they rarely know what a deal they are getting, or appreciate it, but I do and that's enough.

Then I am married to a bankruptcy lawyer. Not as bad as being a bill collector is it skip?
Message: Posted by: KC Cameron (Mar 17, 2012 9:33am)
Oh, we DO make a ton of money for the work we do, don't kid yourself! Sure, we have our costs to run a business, and people do pay for experience, but still. If we actually worked 40-50 hours a week on our business, there is no reason why most of us shouldn't make six figures. Truthfully, most of us are lazy (myself included).
Message: Posted by: Kipley (May 21, 2012 11:13am)
This is a great thread! Obviously an important topic.

I have been working in the NYC market for the last six years. Last year I did about 325 shows, and my main audience is children under 6 years old - I do shows that combine live music, interactive puppetry, and age appropriate magic tricks.

In the NYC/NJ market, my fees are about average for my level of experience and the age group I focus on ($250-$350 per show). Among my goals is to maximize my income doing the types of shows I enjoy most - specifically, preschool and birthday party shows for children ages 1-6.

A few years back, I did experiment offering a shortened version of a couple of my shows at a lower price, but I found that cutting a show from 45 to 30 minutes didn't significantly reduce the time involved with a gig.

It's the driving and the parking and the setting up that takes the most time, and that doesn't change regardless of how long my show is. Plus, I still have to pay the same for gas, tolls, etc. (Though I live right across the river from Manhattan, bridge and tunnel tolls plus parking in NYC can eat up $45 of a fee!)

Worst of all, I kept having to turn down full-price gigs because I had already booked a discount show.

Like other entertainers I have spoken with, I have found that potential clients who begin a relationship by haggling for the lowest price are often difficult to work with throughout the process.

I have also had the experience where a client I offered a discount to tells all her friends that they don't need to pay full price and should just haggle with me. In that case, offering one discount does drive down the price of multiple gigs.

I personally don't like being "sold", and so if a client tells me they cannot afford my fee, I don't push harder to make a sale, nor do I immediately drop my price.

I don't say anything about "you get what you pay for"... I think people inherently understand that, which is another argument for not discounting.

I just do my best up front to find out what the client needs and discuss the benefits of my shows. I encourage clients to call around, talk to other entertainers, and make the comparison themselves. I have found this approach often gives clients more confidence in dealing with me.

I think of my performing business as a brand, and I want Mister Kipley Music & Puppets to be perceived as a high-value brand. My goal is to be at my absolute best so that I can always be confident about the fee I'm requesting.

I also need to be confident that my weekends will be booked up well in advance, and this motivates me to keep working and improving all aspects of my business. I would never lower the quality of a show just because someone paid slightly less, but sticking to my top fee certainly keeps me focused on doing my best at all times.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 12, 2012 12:32pm)
The first thing my mentor Dave Finnigan told me was "never sell yourself cheap". If you do $100 parties that is all you are worth. Back in 1987 when I started I charged $150, I do a better show now, and the price of gas has tripled since then.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Aug 13, 2012 1:36pm)
I think it is plain WRONG WRONG to charge one person in the same area of town one price and another person in the same area of town more money.

News channels do sting operations on plumbing companies and other services with corrupt practices like this.

You should set prices and treat clients right!
Message: Posted by: Russo (Sep 11, 2012 11:45am)
I gave a discounted show to a client once - when packing I heard him say to another -"cheap Price-Cheap show- BUT he called me the next year - he excepted my full price- out of revenge I gave him the same show as last time - after the show he came up to me and said-"best show I've ever seen"- so you (they) get what they felt they PAID for. - for 60 years only been burned 4-6 time out of 15.000 shows(yes 15,000- 85% by word of mouth- make em happy). Ralph
Message: Posted by: Russo (Sep 20, 2012 9:24am)
Gave some experience and advise and comments (from a 75year Pro.) NO REPLYS - is it still that most current Magi are still "OH I'm so great" and don't need anyone else comments??? RALPH
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Sep 24, 2012 1:19pm)
Quote:

On 2012-09-20 09:24, Russo wrote:
Gave some experience and advise and comments (from a 75year Pro.) NO REPLYS - is it still that most current Magi are still "OH I'm so great" and don't need anyone else comments??? RALPH


Ralph -

I hope you realize that the "The Little Darlings" area of the Magic Café is much more active with discussions about children's magic. If you're looking for more interaction, you might want to participate in that area.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Russo (Sep 27, 2012 11:17am)
Thanks Don - been out of touch with good magicians - glad I found Magiccafe- -still learning to navagate- though not bad for an old man- (glad I can still think young- ) anyone form the Los Angeles area?? -I was an early member of the Magic Castle- sponsored by Bill & Milt Larsen- (sorry didn't mean to brag- due to expense and out of the area had to drop membership- though their a great group. Ralph
Message: Posted by: wwhokie1 (Feb 12, 2013 10:14am)
If you try to meet their price by chopping up your show to give an economy show, aren't you going to end up with a poorer quality show. Less price, less value, less entertainment. It seems to me that would not only reduce the experience for the audience but also hurt your reputation. I can see having different level shows, charging more for longer shows or for including more expensive or bulkier props, but it would be easy to cut out some of the amazement when cutting down the value of the show. Would the economy show really be just as good, and if it is then why would it not cost just as much. If it is just a shorter show, even that can seem disappointing to the audience if it is too short and can hurt their experience.
Message: Posted by: Bernie Balloons (Feb 12, 2013 11:44pm)
[quote]
On 2009-02-02 15:32, Justin Style wrote:
Okay...sounds good in theory.


Teamsters don't make the money magicians make...and they work way harder. Magicians don't make what doctors make because they ain't smart enough to be one (Yeah, I know there are a few doctors here in the game...)




Not true I am a Teamster.
Performing at Kids Magic shows is way harder plus all of the office work I got to do.
Also I make more as a Teamster (local 831) than a Magician and I got a pension,dental,prescription and health benefits