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Posted by: bishthemagish (Jun 27, 2012 10:19pm) |
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On 2012-06-27 16:27, Cagliostro wrote:
Here is an interesting addition to the Walter Scott mystique that is little known.
In the GBC reprint of The Phantom of the Card Table by Eddie McGuire, McGuire raves about how Scott fooled some of the leading magician of his day with his punch deal. It was a demonstration at Al Baker’s house in which Al Baker, Cardini, Leo Horowitz, T. Nelson Downs, Max Holden and Eddie McLaughlin were present. (Vernon was not present at the time.) It was after this “blindfold” deal demonstration, which supposed wowed all these expert magicians, that Max Holden passed the “crown” of being the most expert exponent of wonderful card table magic (or some such designation), from Vernon to Scott. This irked Vernon to no end. (Those who are not acquainted with the story can read about it in McGuire’s book which sells for about three dollars and can be obtained from Gamblers’ Book Club.)
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I have the book and one of the interesting parts of the book is how magicians argued if Walter Scott was the real deal or not.
One can speculate but the truth if he was a real card cheat could be lost in time. And if I may add in the paperback that came out years later, it was talked about that Walter Scott was a member of a music group (if I remember right he played a string instrument) and he performed in Vaudeville. In this book it was also said that he was an amateur magician and did his punch work in some close up contest and did not win.
Also if I may add, that if he was a vaudevillian and he did deal the punch or use the punch or edge/work as an advantage player. He could be speculated to have played in many games with show business people. According to my conversations with Jay Marshall and my Dad (both performed in vaudeville). The stage hands, agents and acts, a lot of them played cards before and after shows. I speculate that Walter Scott if he played cards this was where he did it - while he was performing in vaudeville that is.
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On 2012-06-27 16:27, Cagliostro wrote:
However, there is more to the story than recounted by McGuire. According to Jeff Busby, in his book, The Secret of the Palmettos, Scott’s demonstration for the New York magicians at Al Baker’s house, on June 14, 1930, was a set-up. According to Busby, Scott, McGuire, Baker, Downs and McLaughlin joined together in a plot to devastate their New York targets: Horowitz, Cardini and Holden. It was Baker who introduced the “gaffed” (edge marked and punched), decks for Scott's use.
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Busby wrote a lot of things including the Man who was Erdnase. I take this with a grain of salt.
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On 2012-06-27 16:27, Cagliostro wrote:
Evidently, three years before the New York demonstration, in June of 1927, Downs and McLaughlin traveled with Faucett Ross to spend a week with McGuire and Scott, in which they exchanged moves and ideas. So Downs and McLaughlin were in on the methods that Scott used on the night of the “big” New York demonstration.
Scott evidently used scratch (edge work on the cards) plus a punch deal to do the demonstration. The scratch enabled him to see how far down in the deck his desired cards were, and he could anticipate when to go into his punch deal because of the edge work. It the cards were not close enough to the top of the deck to be dealt on the next round, he would have the deck shuffled and then check again to see if his desired cards were close enough to be dealt. If not, he would have the deck shuffled again, "just to be sure they are all mixed." He wore a blindfold to conceal the fact that he was looking down at the deck to see his edge work.
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I have no idea if the above story is true or not. However Downs was very interested in card shark info and wanted to learn the center deal. Which he did learn and use in his close up card work. Greater magic has some info on Downs and the center deal.
Another magician that was very interested in card sharp methods was Louis Zingone who did a comedy magic act in New York. He was one of the first magicians dealing centers. I saw a film of him doing it in the back of Magic Inc. He dealt on a glass table so they could show the center from underneath.
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On 2012-06-27 17:34, Cagliostro wrote:
Finally, I don’t want to irritate any sensitive magicians on the BB, but if Scott was such a great card hustler, why did he associate with and share his moves and methods with magicians?
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My answer to that question is only speculation - Walter Scott could have been a magician too. And having a background in magic as suggested above and the other Phantom of the card table book - I suggest that perhaps Walter Scott was “ego” driven. In my opinion part of the reason magicians session and tip - often to often in my opinion is the be the guy in the know.
It was also talked about in the Phantom of the card table ( the paperback) that Ed Marlo pinched Walter Scotts second and the master grip and his punch system that forms the basic of the last part of the book Marlo in Spades.
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On 2012-06-27 17:34, Cagliostro wrote:
Tony Georgio wrote this article in the July 2004 issue of Genii magazine entitled, GUSIAS - Master Mechanic and I did a review of it. In it, he comments on the center deal which is why I am including it here.
I should mention that real hustling in knowing company for high stakes is not about having a “magic” or “legendary” move. Certainly you have to have a good methodology, be able to employ your ploy in a proficient manner and be capable enough to apply it in play, but the “magic” is more in the hustler himself, not in the gaff. It is in the “grift” sense the hustler acquires over time, (timing, practicality of method, experience, demeanor, con, likability and a myriad of other factors). The fancy moves and “intrigue” stories are mostly for the magicians and card table aficionados. They make for a great read and I enjoy reading them myself. However, the real work (in total), and its application is oftentimes “different.”
Here is my much shorter review of the article with my specific comments in parentheses:
The article recounts is the story of William “Bill” Gusias who is noted as being “an extraordinary sleight-of-hand performer and a master craftsman of holdout machines and other arcane mechanical devices used by advantage players.”
According to the article, Bill grew up in Chicago in the 1930’s, where mob controlled gambling flourished. Although illegal, gambling was wide open and drew card and dice cheats and hustlers from all over the country to the area.
Bill got introduced to card tricks at a young age and performed in his father’s trade school and valet shop. Because many of the customers at his father’s shop where card mechanics, they took an interest in Bill and over a period of time taught him how to deal seconds, bottoms, and how to do hole card switches, dice switches and other moves. Bill became very knowledgeable and proficient in doing the “real work” with cards and dice.
Because he was in a machine shop class in high school, one of the hustlers asked Bill to repair his holdout machine. Because a part was beyond repair, Bill not only constructed a working replica of the broken part, but built a duplicate of the entire machine. That led to him building several hundred holdout machines over the years, in addition to “gaffed dice cups, bean shooters, card punches, holdout and cold-deck machines, bugs, punches, Strippers, paper, whip cups, flop boxes, daub, check cop, and many other - some not so well know - devices.”
Although Bill had many offers to join card and dice mobs, he evidently never had any desire to do so. According to Georgio, “Bill Gusias is indeed a master mechanic. He is an accomplished dice mechanic who executes the tip switch and the thumb switch both equally well. He can deal bottoms, seconds, handmuck, play a machine, bean shooter, or slick sleeve as well as any advantage player, and had he not heeded his father’s admonitions (against leading the life of a gambler), he would have stolen enough money to fill many box cars."
In the article, Georgio relates Bill’s response to a number of questions posed to him about card cheating. One question was in regard to the current interest in the center deal, and its efficacy in actual play. Bill said, “I heard entertainers talk about it, and I saw Charlie Miller, Dai Vernon, and Ross Bertram do a center deal; but I have never seen nor heard of a card mechanic who dealt from the center.”
He was also asked whether Vernon’s, Bertram’s or Miller’s center deal would get by in a money game. His response was, “No. First of all, the only reason for dealing from the center would be to over-come the cut. Aside from having a confederate cut to a brief or a crimp, there are far easier ways to overcome the cut. I cannot think of a reason for practicing such a meaningless move.”
(I happen to agree with that statement and so did Giorgio. I have never heard of a center being attempted in any kind of knowing company and there are many far superior ways to “get the money” than using a center that are much more deceptive and far safer. In my opinion, mastering a center deal is a complete waste of time, unless you are using it for gambling expose or demo work. Additionally, even well-known gambling “type” demonstrators like Darwin Ortiz and Steve Forte are not above using a pseudo center deal when giving demonstrations as they apparently do not want to attempt to deal a center under even a layman’s unknowing scrutiny.)
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The above is interesting and they are interesting opinions. But if I may add we still don’t know enough about “how Allen Kennedy worked the center” If he did work the center that is.
I speculate that one of the games Allen Kennedy perhaps played was five card stud. However if he did use the center I would also have the opinion that he dealt at the most two centers on the first two deals. Giving him two of a kind. The reason I think this is the deck (might have been tabled) is tabled after the first two cards are dealt.
This is only speculation after hearing Vernon say that when Kennedy did his center for him on Kennedy’s kitchen table. He dealt out hands of five card stud. This adds more questions because Kennedy may have worked alone. Also how many times would he have done this in a game - and if it would have gotten past them - back then? Also what kind of games did he play - and what kinds of people did he play with? Did he play in big money games or not? Was he playing (and Walter Scott) during the depression era?
However a good two of a kind in a game of five card stud would be an advantage to someone that knew how to play the game in my opinion.
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On 2012-06-27 17:34, Cagliostro wrote:
I suggest Kennedy originally got his reputation from Vernon who promoted him very heavily for personal reasons. It satisfied Vernon’s agenda of being on the leading edge of card table artifice, knowing more about the subject than the other magicians, employing one-up-man-ship and toying with the other magicians’ heads which he liked to do.
Like Scott, Kennedy’s story was further embellished by magicians that took the tale and ran with it. Kennedy no doubt had a good center deal and probably was able to use it in some games, but not in tough games with top hustlers.
We have to appreciate and recognize Kennedy for developing a center deal to the level that he did, especially back at a time was the concept was probably little known. We also have to appreciate the magicians who have studied the history and development of the center deal and gambling moves down through history. Their comments and observations, like bishthemagish’s, give us important references to what has gone before and enables future generations to build on and improve the methods of the past.
However, in my opinion the Kennedy center deal story has some elements of truth, some elements of exaggeration, sprinkled with a touch of BS and served tongue in cheek. As Humphrey Bogart, in the persona of Sam Spade said in The Maltese Falcon, “It’s the stuff that dreams are made of.
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Thanks for posting all the info and for a great conversation.
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