(Close Window) Topic: Changing decks several times during performance: good or bad?
Message: Posted by: metaljohn (Feb 28, 2012 12:23pm)
The magic I saw before I got heavily into cards had about 10 decks in a small close up case. He would do 3 or 4 tricks, put the deck in the case and take out another deck. Do another 3 or 4 and take another deck. I must have seen him openly change decks about 4 times in 30-40 minutes. At the time, I remember wondering why he was doing that (didn't think it was probably because he had the cards prearranged), but it didn't matter cause the tricks were awesome. No one called him out on it and I was wondering if the others were wondering like me.

There's a bunch of tricks I'd like to do that requires some arrangements prior to the trick. Normally, it's not a problem, especially if I only need to get four cards to the top and their order doesn't matter, but putting 10 cards in a specific order (to do Harry Loryane's The Sting for example) can be a little suspicious. This is especially true if you start doing that for three or four tricks in a row. So my question is, would it be a bad idea if I had 2 or 3 decks and I switched them openly? Do any of you do that?
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Feb 28, 2012 12:38pm)
Personally, I wouldn't do it. If I needed a deck switch it would have to be invisible.
Derek Dingle used to do what you described in your post, but he essentially performed for magicians so he simply used to say something like "Well, you know, so why pretend???"

mlippo
Message: Posted by: MeetMagicMike (Feb 28, 2012 1:10pm)
Even though you were impressed with this guy you would have been far mor impressed if you had thought he did all of his tricks with one ordinary deck. And it would have only taken a small amount of effort on his part.

All of your decks should look alike. That is one reason it is advisable to use a common design like Bicycle Rider Back.

If you have to switch decks the easiest thing to do is to put the deck in your pocket and do a non-dck trick and then pull out a different deck when you resume card tricks.

Working magicians that I know don't use a lot of trick decks. They learn a lot of tricks with an ordinary deck and then carry maybe one "trick" deck/ In my case, I always carry the Invisible deck but I would never want my audience to suspect that I use more than one deck.
Message: Posted by: puggo (Feb 28, 2012 1:48pm)
Personal preference only, but on a general level, I would say bad, bad, bad! It should be easy to routine in a deck switch or two.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with overtly pulling out a 'special' deck if you frame it / present it in the right way.

Charlie
Message: Posted by: metaljohn (Feb 28, 2012 2:21pm)
To my knowledge, all of his decks were normal, but now that I have Card College Light, I recognize a couple of tricks from there and a lot of those tricks require the cards to start out in a specific order. Maybe I should learn to cull cards properly. I have set up the cards for The Sting trick during a performance, but I doubt anyone caught on because I was rambling and telling a story while doing it. It just looks like I'm toying with the deck. My only concern is that if I start doing that for other tricks, I'm affraid some people would catch on.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Feb 28, 2012 3:42pm)
I don't see a problem with using ultiple decks in a performance, but, as others are saying, putting one away, just to openly take out a different one, is superfluous.

If you are doing more than just card work, you can break things up a btit with other material, then returning to the "same" deck. Also, when doing this, I don't think it's neccessary to even imply it's the same deck. I'm not talking about hinting at it with ome subtlty, but, if you are doing this, there's no need to even have the decks be the same colour.

That being said, don't be going through seven different decks of seven diffrent colours. Although I could almost see that becoming a running gag, but maybe not obvioius, or funny enough.

Now, if you are doing an all card set, well, when you go to change decks, you might want to also pull out a gun to hand to your spectators to put them out of ther missery ;)

Seriously though, you could still insert natural breaks, pulling a few cards out of the deck and doing a packet trick, while conveinently putting the rest of the deck in your pocket, or case, and then pulling "it" back out after, putting the packet of cards "back" into the deck. A nice way to switch decks openly, while subtly convincing them it is the same deck by simply "replacing" the packet you previously "took" from it.

Similarly you could do Card Warp, or have a talking piece, maybe discussing something about an individual card, etc.

Obviously this can all depend on the performance siuation. Though I imagine if you are working with multiple decks, chances are it's a slightly more formal (planned/schedualed) performance. As mentioned before, ala Dingle, if you ar eperforming for fellow mag, then there may not be a need to be concerned.
Unless you are doing a "set" for them, or, in a jamming/impromptu session, and you want to sneak in a fooler after having just done something FASDIU, then a quick 4 ace routine, then ring in the next deck, randomly, or "randomly" if it matters, insert the aces "back" into the deck, and whip out your preset effect.
Message: Posted by: whitesonora (Feb 28, 2012 4:31pm)
I don't know the setup required for The Sting (nor the effect).
But there's a card cheating routine that requires me to have 3 kings, 3 aces and 3 other cards set up on top of the deck.
So I do Paul Harris' Reset prior to this trick, and the rest of the deck is on the table in full view.
I openly remove the 4 aces and the four kings and cull the 3 cards on top of the deck, then I go for the Reset that I can follow with the cheating routine.

And to answer your question, I don't think that switching decks openly is a good idea unless you can justify it by your pattern, or do what MeetMagicMike or gdw adviced.

Good luck
Message: Posted by: FrenchDrop (Feb 28, 2012 4:53pm)
I agree that you can switch a deck in an apparently natural way just by putting it away, doing something that doesn't use a deck, then pulling out the new deck from the same place you put the first one, as if no switch had happened.

You don't even have to stop doing card magic; you could just do any of the many packet tricks that use cards you couldn't have gotten from the standard deck you were using. Something with four jokers, several blank cards, a bunch of cards with a bunch of different backs...anything along those lines will make it clear why you put the deck away for a moment.
Message: Posted by: gary31525 (Feb 28, 2012 6:13pm)
I try not to do anything more than I must, if I do not have to perform a deck switch, I don't; it lessens the chance of flashing, in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Feb 28, 2012 8:32pm)
Metaljohn,

Can you list the tricks that you want to do? You might be able to find that you won't need to switch anything, if you put in the proper training and preparation. One thing that many stack workers do is invest time in learning versions of classic tricks (eg: Triumph, ACR, etc.) that don't alter the stack, which means they get to have their cake and eat it too.

My personal experience is that if the tricks are awesome, people won't complain unless they think it matters, and unless the trick screams "Deck Switch" (such as with a colour-changing deck or similar) then there may be little to worry about. I actually used to do three card tricks in a kids show, and they each required their own deck -- or, more appropriately, I required the three decks to pull them off -- because I hadn't yet learned how to do them all from the same deck (ie: secretly controlling a force card on the fly). The tricks were good and everything, but even though nobody ever pointed it out, the more card magic I learned, the more artless it felt.

It's also worth pointing out that these were parlour-style shows. If you're openly switching decks in an impromptu and/or close-up situation? Lame.
Message: Posted by: rklew64 (Feb 28, 2012 10:04pm)
As long as it is fun for you, you should keep switching decks and feel limited to how many you end up doing.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Feb 29, 2012 11:09am)
I generally work restaurants, and even there, I will, occasionally, use more than one deck, however, not necessarily at the same table, or at least not in an obvious way.

I have, at most, three deck on me. One for signed cards, thus an incomplete deck, one complete deck, and, occasionally, a gimmicked/special deck. Usually something that is apparent in the effect that necessitates it having it's own deck, ie: Cardtoon.

The other two "normal" decks I might end up using at the same table, though I think it is best to stick to one card "set" per table. That is, don't do some card tricks, switch to something else, and then back to cards. On rare occasion, maybe, every situation is different. Sometimes the table is really into it, play it by ear, but generally, if you are there long enough to come BACK to card trics (assuming you did other material) then you've probably been at the table too long, and you are now there more for yourself.

Any who, if, for example, you are JUST doing cards, then you would be more likely to end up using more than one deck at a table (although I occasionally enjoy "challenge" nights, bring only one deck of cards, or doing an entire night with no card tricks, etc.)
I find good ways of doing this is motivating using a different deck.
That is, not necessarily finding a way to require a certain deck for an effect, or, after doing something with signed, or folded/destroyed cards, saying you need a full deck for the next effect, that should not be a concern of your audience's: but rather the last effect ends in a way making further effects with the deck unreasonable. Ie, solid deception/omnideck, rainbow deck, deck in a balloon, etc. Normally these, IMHO, are best used as natural conclusions to your card set at a table, if not your entire "act" at that table. They are strong climaxes, and provide a natural reason to stop doing card tricks.
Occasionally, again, depending on the situation, (there are always exceptions to the rules, they are just rare) these can be used as reasons to introduce a new deck.
Message: Posted by: 1tepa1 (Feb 29, 2012 11:19am)
Quote:

On 2012-02-28 16:31, whitesonora wrote:
I don't know the setup required for The Sting (nor the effect).
But there's a card cheating routine that requires me to have 3 kings, 3 aces and 3 other cards set up on top of the deck.
So I do Paul Harris' Reset prior to this trick, and the rest of the deck is on the table in full view.
I openly remove the 4 aces and the four kings and cull the 3 cards on top of the deck, then I go for the Reset that I can follow with the cheating routine.

And to answer your question, I don't think that switching decks openly is a good idea unless you can justify it by your pattern, or do what MeetMagicMike or gdw adviced.

Good luck


When I do the Sting I just take the cards from the deck and without showing them put them to two packets in the order that they would normally be dealt. Then I just proceed like the rest of the trick.

Nice way to do it impromptu. And I did't like the thing that you just somehow happened to deal 5 blacks and 5 reds in two piles.