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About Posting: Only Registered users can post new topics and replies in this forum Username: Password: I forgot my password! Message: Click Here to review the topic. [quote] On 2006-05-15 23:14, DanielTyler wrote: Hey guys regarding the above post, don't get into the Venusian Arts (aka pick-up) unless you're actually serious about learning it. Realize that it is a skill as mcuh as magic is a skill, and one that will come with much frustration, exhaustion, and failure if you're not completely dedicated to it. That said, I have written an essay about everything I've learned about the relationship between magic and girls, so I've posted it below. Hopefully it will help.... First, let me share my “qualifications” to write an essay like this, considering that most of the advice I’ve seen here is, well, basically wrong. I’ve had a girlfriend for about three months now – a great gal, indeed. But before that, I was living life as a single guy who went on a lot of dates. I was getting numbers or email addresses from most of the girls that I approached in public with magic. At school, girls became addicted to the magic (and still are). Of course, if you go back another couple of years, I was still into magic but rather clueless about the opposite sex. So I’ve learned a lot in the past two years – no thanks, whatsoever, to the advice given on these boards – and I think I am indeed “qualified” to share it. Also, a lot of the ideas I’m sharing come from outside reliable sources – Stuart Wilde, Melvin Helitzer, David Deangelo, Derren Brown, my girlfriend – who are more than qualified in their areas. The second thing I want to address right now is weighing the pros and cons of showing magic to girls. I’ve heard guys that want to fall completely on magic to attract a girl, as though it will do the work for them. I’ve also heard guys that will never show magic to girls, believing it can only hurt the situation. Neither extreme makes much sense to me, both suggesting a major self-image problem: the former believes they aren’t good enough to attract girls by themselves, the latter believes that they’re hobby isn’t cool enough to trigger attraction. Again, I think both extremes are unhealthy. The balance, as I’ll mention in a bit, is letting magic help you get the girl rather than letting it get the girl for you. I’ve heard guys that think using magic to impress a girl is manipulative in wrong. Well, in the context of using magic for attraction, then a kickass trick is about as wrong as a fancy hairdo and a short skirt. I’ve also heard guys that think using magic to impress a girl is a belittling of the art. But the purpose of our art is the enjoyment of our spectators. Magic as a means of attracting a girl is simply a means of accomplishing that purpose. So I suggest that using magic to help you get girls is neither disrespectful to the girl herself or the art itself. You may keep your own beliefs and weigh your own pros and cons, but I’ll be writing this essay with the understanding that magic is a perfectly fine tool for any guy that’s trying to attract a girl. So let’s rock ’n roll… The first thing you have to realize is that magic can only help you get the girl, it will never get the girl for you. If you think that by showing a girl a trick (hell, consider the best trick you know) is the magic bullet for attracting her, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Girls will never ever be attracted to a trick, no matter how amazing it is. Girls can, however, be attracted to a performance. And of course in that case, it definitely matters how amazing it is. A magical performance will do one of the following three things: 1) Create or amplify attraction, 2) Destroy or diminish attraction, or 3) Do nothing to attraction. If you’re a guy that wants to attract a girl, and you want to use magic to help you do that (remember, it will never do it for you), it’s probably a good idea to figure out what performance traits result in each of the three things above. Let’s take a look at what destroys or diminishes attraction, as well as some of the common misconceptions I’ve seen on these discussion forums about how girls will respond. You must understand that if you are performing for girls with the objective of impressing them or getting them to like you, they will know it immediately. It will simply slip through your body language, voice tone, and words and they will know that you are performing magic with the sole objective of getting their approval. This is an insecure objective and will destroy your chances. Wait a second – didn’t I just say that magic can help get the attraction of the girl you want? Well, yeah, but when I start performing for a girl, I am not performing because I want her to like me. I’m performing for the same reason I perform under any circumstances – to get a huge reaction that makes both of us feel good. Now, I am performing in a way that is attractive, and I’m throwing in a few “techniques” that I’ll show you in a bit that communicate the right things, but my primary goal when I start performing for a girl is a great reaction. What happens when you replace your needy, insecure attempt to get approval with your natural attempt to get a reaction? It takes all the pressure off of you (who no longer has to be very careful not to screw up your goal), her (who no longer has to figure out how she’s going to have to reject you), and the situation (which can now be enjoyed as a performance in magic). So from now on, when you are performing for a girl, I want you to consciously STOP caring whether or not she likes you or approves of you, and treat her like you would any other spectator. Along that vein of treating her equally, there comes into question the material you’re performing. How many times have you asked or seen guys ask “What tricks should I perform to make an impression?” This is truly the silliest thing I’ve ever seen. Never streamline your repertoire for a girl, because if you do, you’ll probably screw it up. Only streamline your repertoire for reactions, because if all of your material is strong, you no longer need to ask that question. What tricks should you perform to make an impression? Any of them, because ALL of the tricks you do should make an impression. I also want to address the comment I made that if you streamline your repertoire for a girl, you’ll probably screw it up, which addresses a major misconception. When the poor guys ask, “What tricks should I perform to make an impression?” the answers that follow are usually more pathetic: Sponge bunnies, Cardtoon, Floating rose, etc. I want to cry when I see these suggestions because, 1) These effects are probably a lot less powerful than your “best stuff” that you’d show your guy-friends, and 2) They communicate like a flashing neon sign: “I AM INSECURE, I LIKE YOU, AND I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU THESE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GETTING YOU TO LIKE ME.” Remember, your objective is more to get reactions than to get her to like you. If you perform Floating Rose, it becomes completely obvious that things are the other way around, and you’ll probably creep her out. (Note: After it’s been established that you like each other, and your relationship locks into the “romantic phase” of things, then showing her the Floating Rose in the right way at the right time is a very sweet gesture. But it’s THE ticket to failure if you’re trying to get a girl to like you.) If you perform a Chicago Opener variation and have her kiss the deck to make it blush – and yes, I absolutely know that I’m going against hundreds of magician who do this – you’ll probably creep her out. Be weary of ANY effects that use hearts, roses, or the color red as a means of attracting a girl, because in most cases, you’ll probably creep her out. It simply releases a very powerful tension that forms when she doesn’t know whether you like her or not. The reason I don’t want you to stoop to the level of sponge bunnies brings up another misconception: In the modern-day perception of girls as “sweethearts,” I think a lot of guys confuse them for children. So performing cute little tricks with a sponge bunny or a cartoon on a playing card says all the wrong things. It degrades your magic, makes you look desperate, and insults her intelligence and sophistication. And this ALL goes back to the principle of sticking to your best material when performing for anyone, regardless of sex. So far, the things about magic that hurt attraction are 1) You looking desperate, insecure or needy, 2) You patronizing them or insulting their intelligence, and 3) You streamlining your repertoire because you think girls like a different kind of magic than anyone else. The fourth factor is this: Magicians are perceived by the lay community as something of nerds. Girls do not like nerds. Now, you don’t have to be a nerdy performer and this doesn’t mean magic cannot get you respect, admiration, and/or attraction from the opposite sex – but it does mean you’ll have to work a bit harder to eliminate the dorky stereotype that has been tagged to your hobby than, say, a football player. To do this, we get into matters that create or amplify attraction. I’ve been through some of the major “don’t-do’s,” now let’s talk about some of things you can DO. In terms of the dork-factor, it’s time to put a “cool coating” on your magic and presentation. This means that you have to both eliminate some of your dorky material (here we return to our sponge bunnies and Cardtoon decks), make the material that remains feel cool. To do this, focus on presenting your magic in a way that feels serious. It doesn’t mean you can’t be funny, but it DOES mean that you have to STOP being goofy. Here’s a checklist to “cool-coating:” - Eliminate dorky magic. - Eliminate dorky one-liners or canned jokes. - Focus on being naturally funny and relaxed and upbeat, rather than relying on lines to convey these features. - Change the patter of those dorky effects that you “just can’t bear to let go of” so they at least feel more serious and magical. - Add some heavy direct mentalism to your repertoire and weave it into all of your routines – even the fun visual ones. (For non-mentalists, get yourself a Radar Deck, the Breakthrough Card System, a Center Tear, and/or a Nail Writer.) - Present yourself in a cool manner. Let’s address the last check. I don’t really care what your style is, but make sure you look good. Keep a close shave, do your hair every morning, where clothes that are in style and look good on you (lose the *** playing-card-necktie), get a nice watch, wash your hands throughout the day, keep your nails trimmed not bitten, shower daily with a modest spray of cologne and a steady supply of deodorant, brush your teeth, etc. Now in my experience with both girls and magic, personality is much more important than looks. But to some degree, your looks affect your personality and how people perceive you. This doesn’t mean going to the gym for five hours a day, hitting the tanning salon until you sizzle, or getting a professional makeover. All I suggest you do is take care of yourself until you are presentable and at least average looking – a level I think anyone can achieve. Once you’re THERE, then it’s all about your personality. If you can put a cool coating on your magic, you will find that girls respect, admire, and approve of your performances. If you don’t, then you’re either going to get a complete disconnect or you’re going to be perceived as the goofy entertainer. Either can just be grouped into “The Death of Attraction.” If you present yourself and your magic in a cool way, a way that while still fun and light-hearted commands respect, and you edit the attraction-killers from your performance, you will be neutral in her book. Well, not neutral in the general sense – she’ll probably perceive you as a cooler guy that’s more fun to hang around than she thought – but neutral in the context of attraction. From what I’ve been reading on these boards, neutral is a much better place to be than where you are now. But our objective still remains unfulfilled: attraction. Let me now get into the techniques that will enhance THAT key element that you can apply to your magical performances. First, it’s only logical that magic would create attraction. From an intellectual perspective, the traits that women find attractive are built into a good performance: Confidence, sense of humor, mysteriousness, fearlessness, etc. The problem arises when these “traits” are presented in the wrong way, combined with the aforementioned “attraction-killers.” So we’ve talked about how to cut down on the killers that are built into magic; now let’s talk about how to amplify the attractive traits that are built into magic. CONFIDENCE: This and humor are the two strongest things in your favor. A recent study showed that women are more attracted to confidence than any other personality trait. And what’s so convenient for us magicians: a good magic performance is a great display of confidence. It shows your ability to express yourself and your interest (magic) in a way that holds not a trace of self-consciousness. And if you are confident in your abilities (which you better be) then you will radiate an air of confidence that girls will pick up immediately. - Do’s: Pick up the book Silent Power by Stuart Wilde. It’s about eighty pages and you can read it in one sitting, but it will give you a great frame for the kind of confidence you want to present in a magical performance. Practice your tricks to absolute perfection, so performing them is effortless. When you get a huge reaction, don’t react yourself. Step back, dribble the cards and give them a sly smile. When you’re sitting, sit back into a slouch. When you’re standing, stand tall with your shoulders back (not over-exaggerated, please), and your head pointed straight. The key here is to be almost too-comfortable and too-relaxed with the situation. - Don’ts: Arrogance is your only pitfall here. So while you want to act relaxed and almost indifferent after an incredible effect, you don’t want to be too proud of yourself. It’s only magic. If you present yourself in a way that communicates “I’m the greatest magician in the world, so don’t mess,” you’re going to look like an insecure jerk. I recommend cutting down on fancy manipulation, or any such thing that says, “Hey look at me!” rather than involving the spectator. SENSE OF HUMOR: On the list of attractive personality traits, this ranks a close number 2. It truly acts like a magic bullet for attraction, if it is used correctly. David Deangelo, a guy who has studied the topic of women and dating probably more extensively and achieved more accurate results than anyone in the world, recommends a technique called Cocky/Funny. The principle is quite simple – if you make fun of beautiful women in a way that makes them laugh, they will be attracted to you. For example, let’s say you are performing for a beautiful blonde-bombshell, showing her Two Card Monte. When you ask her which queen is on top and she pauses for just a second, you say, “Ohhh god we have a blonde…” This can be juiced up as much as you want, as long as you have the skills to do so. For example, you could then turn to her perhaps-less-attractive brunette friend to say, “Can you help her out, I’ve got stuff I’ve got to do.” The reason C/F works is because you’re merging the two most attractive personality traits – confidence and sense of humor. I’ve found it 100% accurate and use C/F humor in everyday communication, as well as in magic. However… Cocky/Funny is a skill that must be learned, a muscle that must be built. Once you get it, you’ve got it for good, but until then, the technique can backfire and destroy both your chances for attraction and a good reaction. (Example: Same situation, but this time you’re performing for a beautiful brunette and you say, “Hurry up, I don’t have all day.” This has ‘cocky’ but lacks ‘funny,’ and you WILL be seen as nothing more than a jerk.) So while I recommend signing up for David D’s newsletter (www.doubleyourdatingprogram.com) and learning this technique, the first thing you need to do is learn how to be funny. - Do’s: Go buy Comedy Writing Secrets by Melvin Helitzer. If you’re not funny now, this book will make you funny. If you are funny now, this book will make you funnier. I’ve read a couple of humor books but most of them are basically BS. This is the real deal, teaching you the structure of humor, why people laugh, and different techniques. Instead of giving you one-liners, this book applies the formula – so you can be naturally funny without the canned script. This is the single best thing you can do to get more laughs in a magical performance. - Don’ts: Being funny is very, very powerful, but only when you understand how to be funny. If you don’t you will crash and burn. This is going to be a tough thing for you to hear, but if you’re using one-liners now, it’s time for you to give them up or reduce them dramatically. You will get a few laughs, but they are only laughs to fill the awkward silence. Take my word for it – canned patter is not funny. There is a reason that these lines are called GAGS. But, you may ask, when one-liners are removed, what remains to get a laugh? Well, you’re personality. If you know how to BE funny, you’ll get laughs without having to fall on the crutches of one-liners. MYSTERIOUSNESS: This may seem the most automatic in magic, but it’s not as easy as it sounds. This requires you to send mixed signals in your presentation to keep them guessing what is going on… Is he using sleight of hand? Could he possibly be reading my mind? No, couldn’t be, he must be reading my eyes. But I’m keeping a straight face. Is he using sleight of hand? No, he must be reading my mind. No, wait… A performance that draws this kind of confusion from a spectator is simply seductive (and not just in the sexual sense). If you can keep her guessing, trying to figure you out, you will produce an air of mysteriousness that is wonderful for attraction. - Do’s: Whether you are a mentalist or a “regular” magician, I recommend weaving mentalism through visual effects. Derren Brown is a master of this. In his book Pure Effect, check out the Three Card Routine. It starts with the visual change of one card into another into another. The routine then transcends into mentalism, then the three card monte, and back into mentalism. This mix of mentalism and visual magic is a formula for mysteriousness. - Don’ts: Please, whatever you do, don’t consciously try to be mysterious with weird hand gestures or by speaking in a super-low voice. You will either come across as a freakshow or a fool – neither will impress her. FEARLESSNESS: It’s been proven time and time again, both by Hollywood and real life – women are attracted to bad-boys. For guys that are more interested in playing cards than motorcycles (yours truly, man) this presents a problem. Fortunately, you can add subtle things to your communication that convey fearlessness, and you can do this in a performance. Girls are attracted to guys that are not intimated by them. Ironically, beautiful girls can be the most intimidating thing any Average Joe can come across. So the single best thing you can do to display fearlessness in performance is show utter fearlessness of her. - Do’s: I’ve already discussed several “do’s” earlier in the essay. Don’t make her liking you your primary objective. Don’t make her approval an objective at all. Your primary objective when performing for a girl stands as it would for any other spectator – reactions. Like I said, if all you forget about phone numbers and email addresses – or at least put these goals to the side – you take the pressure off both her and you and you will be less likely to act intimidating. The other “fearless” communication you can use is Cocky/Funny. Perhaps now you see deeper into the logic of why this is so attractive for girls – if you’re busting her balls, you simply can’t be afraid of her. The last thing I’d like you to do is eye contact and physical contact. No stalker-stares, no physical contact in the wrong places, no court dates, no bringing this essay to court with you – big no-no’s. What I’m talking about here is looking her right in the eye when you talk to her, without flinching AT ALL. When you’re dealing with super-beautiful girls, this is very difficult, but any super-beautiful girl will tell you that it screams fearlessness. As far as touching goes, set up situations that are appropriate. I’ll return to Two Card Monte, when you tell her to make her fingers into a pinch position, gently take her hand and move it up or down as though you want the perfect position. Touch her shoulder when you ask her, “Which card is on top?” and give her a light shove when you make fun of her for being too blonde. These are subtle things that silently tell the girl that, let’s face it, scares the hell out of you, that you are not intimidated by her. - Don’ts: There is less room for error here than in our other “attractive-traits.” The key is simply to have good judgment with the above “Do’s.” They only backfire when you go overboard. For example, if you distance yourself too far from the objective of getting her phone number, then you probably won’t went it comes time TO get it. If you are too cocky and not funny enough, if you stare at her like a stalker, if you get overly touchy and give her no space – of course you’re going to get slammed for it. But this judgment is, for the most part, common sense. Now… there are other factors that can trigger attraction between you and the opposite sex (looks, wealth, power, fame), but these factors are largely out of your immediate control. And the good news for you is that, while these factors DO exist and ARE attractive, personality is the biggest make-or-break. On the same thread, these four personality traits are not the only ones that will trigger attraction – but they are certainly the most significant. At least one of the guys reading this will reply with: “Just be yourself. If she doesn’t like you for who you are, you don’t want to be with her anyway.” 1) I think this attitude is a tad idealistic. I think finding your identity and really sticking to it is a very healthy way to go through life. But I don’t care who you are, or how true you are to yourself, I guarantee that you’d behave differently on a job interview than you would at a party. You behave around your loved ones differently than you do around strangers. Our personalities shift (even if only slightly) depending on our situations and environments. The situation I’m presenting with you, Dear Reader, is one of flirting with and attracting girls. 2) I’m really not asking you to change your personality or NOT be yourself. Okay, I want you to lose your dorky, cutesy, and/or sappy tricks and your canned one-liners – but trust me, it’s for your own good. Other than that, all I’m suggesting is that you use your performance to highlight and display the more attractive parts of your personality. I want you to be yourself, but I also want you to present that self in the coolest, most attractive manner possible. Onward. I’ve told you a few times now to focus on reactions more than attraction as your performing. If you do that, and the basic guidelines I talked about above, she will like you in a way that is not forced or manipulated, but real. However, after you get your reaction and build up that attraction, it’s time to advance to the next level should you want to ask her out. You could always just say, “Hey, can I have your number?” If she’s attracted to your performance (remember she can NOT and will NEVER be attracted to a trick, only a performance), she’ll be happy to give it to you. But if you’d like to be a little more original, here are some techniques to help you out: - Have a card selected and ask her to sign it. Then, almost as an afterthought, say, “You know what, put your phone number down there too –” pause a beat “– confirmation purposes.” This will get a laugh, but it will also get you a number. Again, this and any of these techniques are for the finale of your routine, after you’ve created reactions and attraction. - Heavy mentalism, cold reading, palm reading – any of these psychic techniques that will stun her. Do them, do them well, and then look at your watch and say, “I’m sorry I’ve got to go.” 90% of the time, she will say, “Waaaait, how could you do that?” Look at your watch again, cringe a little bit, and say, “I’ve really got to go, do you have email?” It’s that simple. - This may feel a little stalkerish, but it really is just innocent fun. Check her number in the telephone book. Then present the mentalism effect. Tell her to think of a random set of numbers, “actually, use your telephone number. Here, stand right here, look at me… I know it’s tough, but do it <Thanks Richard Osterlind>…” struggle and ask for the first number, just to satisfy the Too-Perfect principle. Say she say’s 5. “Wait, stop! I’ve got it… 5… 564?” She’ll nod, though it’s not that impressive to know the first three numbers of a phone number in your area. “Next number… next number, 1. No, no 2.” Here she’ll get excited. “It’s high… 9? Yep, 9. Um….34?” When she gasps, quickly say, “564-2934?” Then pretend to be out of breath. If she reacts positively, give her a sly smile and say, “I’ll call ya.” If you’re going to do this, make sure that 1) the rest of your act is based mostly on mentalism, 2) she has at least some belief in the possibility of your abilities, and 3) you play it as slowly and realistically as possible. And by the way, if you feel like a bit guilty or stalker-like, do the same effect for one of your guy friends FIRST. If you’re lucky she’ll jump at the chance for you to read her mind as well. And, after you say, “I’ll call ya,” to ease the tension, you can turn to your guy friend and say, “I’m not calling you.” - Yes, getting a phone number or email address CAN be achieved smoothly through magic. Or, sometimes, not… Picture this: You take an Ace of Hearts and performed Torched and Restored, ripping the card in half, lighting it on fire and then restoring it all together. Follow this up with a line of patter such as… “You see, any flame can restore a broken heart, but you’ll never have to worry about my breaking yours anyway. Do you have email?” Sadly I have seen a similar procedure live right in front of my face. Sadly I’ve seen guys on this discussion forum – virgins who are basically set on that track for life – recommend similar procedures to the poor guys that are asking for advice. DON’T EVER DO ANY OF THIS STUPID CRAP, EVER, EVER, EVER. Again, my rule of thumb (that is about as contrary to the normal advice as it is more accurate) is to avoid hearts, roses, or the color red when you’re using it to attract girls. Rest assured, you will creep them out, but this will never attract them. (Why not? 1) It comes off insecure, needy and desperate; 2) Tricks will never trigger attraction, only performances.) Let’s land this plane… We’ve hit a lot of topics in this essay and I think you’ll find them a lot more practical, effective, and accurate than the BS a lot of these other guys are feeding you. I’m not saying that this is the ONLY way to attract and get the numbers of girls you like using magic, but it is an EFFECTIVE way, and hopefully it’ll save you time. I think the real advice you need in terms of magic and girls deals with attraction, but just briefly, here’s some advice about doing magic once in a relationship. - The same Golden Rule, that really sums up everything I’ve talked about in this essay, still applies: Let magic help you get the girl; don’t let it get the girl for you. - Limit yourself to one trick a date, and make sure it’s off the cuff (I.e. something with a sugar packet if you’re having dinner). - Outside of dates, only perform when she asks to see something. This will keep you in check from bothering her out of the relationship, and don’t worry – if your magic is good, she’ll ask. - If you follow the above two guidelines and she disapproves of your magic or asks you to stop – end it. This is where “being yourself” IS important. There are plenty of millions of chicks out there who enjoy your interests to spend more than a minute with one that doesn’t. - If you MUST perform with hearts, roses and the color red, please wait until the fifth date or you WILL risk a creeped-out reaction. - Remember, although there are some things you might have to work on and there may be some difficulties along the way when it comes to attracting the opposite sex, the purpose of both magic and relationships is purely fun. Never let it get too serious that either of you stop laughing. And with that, I wish you all the best in taking this challenge and coming out successfully. [/quote] [HTML is Off] [BBcode is On] Options: Disable BBcode on this Post Disable Smilies on this Post

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