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[quote] On 2005-04-25 23:55, chrisrkline wrote: [quote] On 2005-04-22 01:59, Turk wrote: Many (if not most) local magic clubs have lending libraries. Many, if not most magicians (including the pros and "heavy hitters") share other routines or "new moves" that they have just learned (and freely share books and videos) amongst "their peers". And yes, I know that some "purists" (upon whom butter would not melt in their mouths) will allege that they are "above" this "reprehensible" practice. However, it is accepted practice in the magic community to freely pass a book or a video back and forth or to have group parties where a video is communially watched or to share a secret one-on-one. And don't forget the public libraries where books and videos are freely and repeatedly lent out. That said, from a conceptional standpoint, is there really any appreciable difference between those practices and the practice of reading a book or watching a video, learning the material and then selling the same. In all of the above cases, only one copy of the book or video is distributed. It seems that the "ethics" comes down to two basic positions: The position of the originators/magic dealers and the position of the end users. It seems like there is now just the constant tension and competing interests between those in the business of making money by selling the secrets (the originators and the dealers) and those interested in saving money (the end users). Hence, I respectfully suggest that there are no immutable ethical principles in this area. I freely acknowledge that there are some end users who feel that you should not perform any effect that you do not physically own or have a book on or have a video on. Fine. If that makes them feel better within themselves, fine. But, that is NOT the prevalent position in the magic community. In sum, it appears that in magicland there are no hard and fast rules other than those rules that are based upon LAWS (such as copyright laws and licensing agreements and formally agreed to "Rights to Perform", etc.). Just IMHO. Mike [/quote] As someone who is, I suppose, a purist, and one whom has been called a hypocrite, and a liar by people who have not met me, I have to say after a quick experiment, butter does melt in my mouth. So thank you for your thoughtful and polite concern over my internal bodily temperature. That said, I don't care if you show people your books and DVDs. I just thank it is wrong to professionally perform effects you do not own or have permission to perform. If you want to share [i][b]your[/i][/b] inventions, then that is great. If I go over to someone’s house who shows me a certain Vernon book I do not own, I will probably eagerly grab the book to find out the secret of that one trick I am interested in. I am OK with that because I won't perform the effect without having bought the book (if it is out of print, I would have to think a little.) But there is the problem. I would be like a little kid in a candy store and maybe that is not the best state of mind to receive secrets. That is what I fear sometimes goes on. Just a bunch of people passing secrets back and forth like little kids. As far as the percentage of magicians who freely share and pass around published material to their friends and fellow ring members, you and I don't know. I would like to hear from some of the Pros on what they think we should do, and what they actually do, with [i][b]other[/i][/b] magicians published routines. In other words, I don't want to know whether they share [i][b]their own routines[/i][/b], but whether they pass around other magician's books and DVDs to groups of magicians knowing that those said magicians will use the routines without buying the source. For example, do the serious pros here pass around the Art of Astonishment to any members of their local ring, knowing that many of those members might simply copy the routines without buying the books. Paul Harris can't answer that question. :) [/quote]
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