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Bare Handed New user 50 Posts |
Hello my name Kirk Kokinos. Two years ago I finished a Gospel effect called "Resurrection" Its is extremly strong to its own determent. Effect: A blank card with Jesus name on it is placed very fairly in empty deck(cave)a hankie is placed over the deck three times to represent three days.Every thing is done by the finger tips and is in full view the whole time. The last time it is lifted you say. And after three days the tomb was empty. And yes the card is gone.........I'm not looking to sell it, Just share it. It has taken a few years of trial and error to get this table to work. I sent a rough draft Video of effect to Tim Trono a year or too ago. I really thought it would be an overnight hit. To do the effect one would need to buy a few things and construct the table and gimmicks. It just seemed like it wasn't going to be a sellable item for him to produce. It really is something I want to see happen. If you have read this far...I'll be surprised..But if you think you are the right person to see this through, contact me at magic@mato.com I'll see if I can get you everything you need, maybe you will have some ideas to resurrect "Resurrection".
Your Friend Kirk Kokinos
You live in the world you create!
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
Man I really don't get this stuff.
That sounds like an excellent piece of magic Kirk but I am really questioning your presentation. I am still new to this whole gospel magic thing so I may be way off base here but is this what it's all about? Is this what gospel magic is? You just gave a perfectly wonderful discourse on what seperates a miracle from magic (in another thread here) and now you are taking THE miracle and reducing it to a parlor trick? How is this going to help people make the distinction between magic and miracle when you purposefully recreate the latter with a playing card? Further, do the people who believe this in their hearts even want to see your version of it? I would think most would find this sacrilege. I'm sure they don't (or else you wouldn't be performing this), I just think they would. I don't mean to route your thread in another direction but perhaps some of the responses herein might help you "sell" your effect. At the very least it will help to sell it to me. Thanks.
Yakworld.
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Bare Handed New user 50 Posts |
First of all thanks for attaching a bagel insead of a doughnut. 2nd WOW, I guess I never thought of it that way. I'm not an expert on the gospel, as a matter of fact thats why I posted here. I have had this effect and others for afew years. I wanted someone who could take the ball and run with it. I'll be meeting someone that has been doing this and has a greater understanding for the gospel next week in Canton. He PM me and we developed a relationship where I felt I could trust him. I also disclosed the entire set up and workings of the Board to him, If I were looking to pitch a sell, then the price was free. I'm not about the $. Any one that Knows me would say the same.(I would hope)Thats not to say I'm a bad business man. I'm sure at some point we will both profeit from the sales. At the end of the performance I have a chance to tell why Jesus Died for us, I never thought of that as being sacrilege. How does this realate to you? I dont know. We all see things differently...Your friend Kirk Kokinos NDP!
You live in the world you create!
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Bare Handed New user 50 Posts |
I almost forgot......I know young people..I know what gets their attention..They are just as confussed and sleepy when "The red is the blood, The black the sin. I put them together in this box. Now Its white," ECT.. This is not me.. If I start to hear"Red, blood, black sin"I get sleepy and start to look for a place to lay down. See I'm not great with that style, or even good, as a matter of fact I stink at it.So I get their attention with seemingly imposible tricks. I have had people ask many questions about the trick, and I have been able to use that to answer their real Questions. Kirk
You live in the world you create!
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Here's an idea that doesn't reduce the message you are trying to convey...
Let's say you take out a deck of cards from a card box. You ribbon spread them face up and have your volunteer select one. On the face of that card, you have the spectator write the name of "JESUS". While he's doing that, you gather up the rest of the cards, square them up and place them face down on the table. Taking the JESUS card from him, you put it in the empty card box (representing the cave) and then do a gesture to indicate the passing of three days. Then when the box is re-opened, it is found that the JESUS card is no longer there. You comment, "Even though the physical body of Jesus was no longer in the cave, his spiritual message remains with us all." You then take the tabled pack and once more ribbon spread it face up. And now each card has the name JESUS printed upon it.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
Bare Handed New user 50 Posts |
You see thats what I'm talking about, Take it and run with it. Philemon you have done well today..I'm all over it....Sending you a strong quad shot. Your friend Kirk
You live in the world you create!
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
As I intimated Kirk, I did not intend for my comments to be derisive and I thank you for not taking them as such.
It was just a bit shocking to me to read this after your very lucid point on seperating magic from miracle. I must admit I still don't understand this thing called gospel magic, perhaps I am not intended to. In my estimation, as I stated here, it is continuously in conflict with itself. Thanks for your reply and, as I said, sounds like a very cool effect!
Yakworld.
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Burt,
I think you are reading to much into "gospel magic." We all know it's not real magic. It is simply a very effective object lesson. I always stste at the beginning of my show that everything I do is based on the physical laws that God has put in place. Jesus did MIRACLES, which overcame or set aside those physical laws--I am merely creating an illusion that something is happening when it really isn't. In Jesus' (and the prophets and apostles) case, it wasn't an illusion, it really happened. When the court magicians turned the sticks to snakes, it was a magic trick. When Moses did it, an actual rod really became an actual snake. The other question that comes up is, "Isn't it still deceiving people?" It is if you try to make them think that you are actually doing miracles, but not if you explain they are just tricks or illusions to illustrate a point. Many of Jesus' parables never really happened--they were fictional stories used as illustrations (earthly stories with Heavenly meanings). I see nothing at all wrong with Kirk's effect. he is simply trying to help people better visualize what happened at the resurrection--a visual aid to help bring home the point, to help people see it in a way they might not have otherwise. that is the purpose of gospel magic, and done properly it is exceptionally effective. By the way, we should NEVER say that sin is black, for a couple of reasons. First, it may be offensive to people with black skin, and people (particularly children) may interpret it to mean that God made those people that way because they were more sinful. Second (and perhaps more important) the Bible never says sin is black. It does, however, in the book of Isaiah, say that sin is RED ("Though your sins be as scarlet...though they be red like crimson"), which I find very interesting. The Word teaches that Christ's blood pays for, or literally "covers" our sin. Blood is red; sin is red. Cover red with red, and can you see the original red anymore? NO! Something to think about. Anyway, I hope I've helped to clarify, and not just further muddied the waters....
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
Bare Handed New user 50 Posts |
I stand corrected. I told you I was bad at the symbolic stuff. Red, Black ect. I wont use that reference again. Thanks.Kirk
You live in the world you create!
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
With apologies again to Kirk (and thanks for inspiring such an interesting thread) I thought better to continue this here than start anew elsewhere.
Thanks Scott. That helped but I think I still need a little push. (Very cool thoughts with regard to the color thing too.) Let me begin by stating once again that I think Kirk has a very cool effect here that one of you gospel magicians should take up and run with. There seems to me to be a real concern in gospel magic with presenting these object lessons while maintaining the premise that we are just performing sleight of hand. True? Well the closer our presentation comes to recreating a true miracle, then obviously the more we have blurred this line between magic and miracle. Correct? So now our teaching or illustrating point has become lost in this confusion. Our audience parts not contemplating the glory of Christ but wondering how it was we were able to reproduce a miracle. (Again I'm just speculating here.) I believe then, and I hope most would agree here, that this concern draws a line (if there had been no line previously drawn). Where we possibly disagree is where this line is. In another thread it was mentioned a "gentleman" by the name of Paul Daniels (I believe of the U.K.?) claimed he could recreate all the miracles of Christ. I facetiously commented that perhaps we should nail him to a cross to put him to the test. My comment was meant to be both humorous and poignant but was really made because I was offened. And I'm a magician who is not a fundamentalist Christian. I can only imagine how those who don't like magic or those who are more hardline would respond. But this thread really got me to thinking about it once again. Obviously Paul's tack and tact were completely misplaced but what if this was done properly? It's the same object lesson we've been discussing here. The illusionist approaches center stage bearing a cross member where some Roman looking guys drive spikes through his wrists (I'm of the wrist school, sorry) and feet before hoisting the cross above the stage. Then one of the guys shoves a spear in his side, "Why have you forsaken me?", and in a Blainesque stunt, he is placed in a tomb for three days, emerging thereafter complete with the holes in his person for any doubters. Same lesson we have been discussing, just a little more grande. So is this crossing the magic/miracle line? More importantly, is this crossing the glorifying God line? If so, where is your line and how do you define it? If not, where the heck is your line and how did it get way over there? I thank you all for your patience and consideration in our discussions here. I'm usually not this thick.
Yakworld.
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-04-26 02:22, Scott F. Guinn wrote: Continuing Isaiah 1:18..."Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. It would be appropriate however to show red sin washed as white as snow. (Showing something that was red changing to white). Dan |
BroDavid Inner circle America’s North Coast, Ohio 3176 Posts |
Oh, my. Yak, you certainly do pose some interesting scenarios and ask some penetrating questions! And I mean that in a good way!
And Scott, you really hit on some great issues to be remembered and applied by all of us. Now back to the question Yak posed. First, I will say that the only thing I didnt like about your comment re: Paul Daniels, was that I didnt say it first! We all know that there are some hard hearted souls out there who will go to their graves cursing God, and there are probably a lot more "rebels" who, when the water is rising and and there is no boat, will call on the very God that they previously didnt belive in. And I personally would like to see whcih way it goes when the chips are down or worse, as you described. But that is a whole different thread in a totally different forum... Now for this situation: For me, it is over the line because it would (if possible to be done as described - and still be a trick) make a mockery of crucification, burial, and resurrection of Christ. (In my Opinion) But your last question is really the one of note: Where is line? And how did it get there? And you will find a different line from many on some issues, and the same firm line from most all on others. The line is where the conviction of the Holy Spirit usggests it, and you follow thru and draw it. For me, it is pretty simple. Does this thing honor God? If not, then there is the possiblity that it dishonors Him. And I dont wat to take that risk! Circumstances in life tend to try to make it hard to make black and white decisions like this. But treading the gray areas of decisions just leads to confusion, and the need to ask forgiveness when you sudenly realize that the gray area you were treading in, has turned very Gray - or worse! Been there. Done that! So I stay away. Where is the Line? Whether it is my line, or your line, Kirk's Line, Scott's Line, or Dan's Line.... it is between the individual and God. And hopefully, we will go and draw the line where God lead us to draw it. Good questions! I wish I could answer them. BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
In my area, every year the Christian churches of many denominations get together and put on an eternity play. In this play, the very scenario that Yak lays down happens--the character of Jesus gets crucified by Roman soldiers, put in the tomb and rises again after three days (although, unlike Yak's premise, not ACTUALLY three days). Thousands of people come to Christ every year as a result of seeing this play.
I think it's all a matter of how you present it, as I said above. There are people, from the Philippines I think, who actually ARE crucified every year (though not allowed to die, and they certainly don't rise again!). As long as we make sure to point out that we are using this as a visual aid, to help people more fully understand what is happening, I think it's a good thing. Just as the theatre-goers knew the actor wasn't really being killed and rising again, they still "suspended their disbelief" and allowed themselves to be very absorbed and moved by the scene. I see no difference between creating the illusion in a Christian play or in a Gospel magic show. I DO think that in Gospel Magic the magic takes a back seat to the message. We have to be very careful not to claim any glory for ourselves, nor to present the effects aspuzzles to be solved, but rather as illustrations of gospel truths.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
What did you mean by that BroDavid? I thought you answered that perfectly. Well done and thanks again for your insight.
For the record, I feel drawing any parallels between magic and the miracles of Christ is past my line. (But you all have probably guessed as much.) Just in case anyone might have thought I was endorsing that little bit. :bwink:
Yakworld.
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