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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
I am increasingly irritated by "trendier" magic sites, often geared towards magicians who are younger than my bald spot, whose advertisement trailers don't ever give you a clear, continuous demonstration of the actual effect. The flashy whizz bang trailers tend to put me off buying because I think the sellers have something to hide This is a glorified pig in a digitally enhanced poke. My underlying assumption is that if what you are selling is worth what you are asking, you don't need the gimmicky "we'll just show you the good bits so you won't realize that the kids at school will still think you're a dork (does anyone still use that word? what about dweeb?), just a dork who does magic tricks" to plug the product. If it's good, I'll buy it. What are your thoughts?
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tmoca Inner circle 1113 Posts |
My thoughts? Agree 100%
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
My thoughts? Sell the sizzle not the sausage! In a lot of cases the sausages are not very good!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
John,
I do agree with you. But the sad fact is that everything is becoming more spoon fed and instant gratification is the order of the day and savvy marketers know this. And as you know my learned friend, it is not just websites! Look at all of these "designer decks" from Ellusionist for example. The ooohh-aahhh factor for the uninformed is exploited with names like Ghost, Viper, Tiger, and I would wager before the end we will see all manner of fauna and undead labeled decks. I did an experiment to test my theory that these decks, though innocent they may be, SCREAM trick deck and actually detract from the magic. I picked up a deck of Black Tigers and did a few effects for some close friends. Their response was, "wow Vlad, why are you using a trick deck? Your sleight of hand magic is MUCH better!" And this my friend even AFTER I made it a point to have THEM unseal the pack, examine, and what have you!! Newsflash folks: All of the "cool" camera angles and rock band named decks will NOT make you cool in your magic. YOU are the one responsible for making your magic an EXPERIENCE for your audiences. Do your homework. Ask questions! And caveat emptor: MANY of the "new, cool" hyperbole laden effects released are actually found in the CLASSIC books and journals! (Note that I wrote "many" and not "all"). The Tarbell Course for instance has been pillaged so much it is a crime. I worked as a demonstrator in three brick and mortar shops as well as being a magical entertainer so I have been on both sides of the counter. Working in these magic shops was a heck of an education! Want a couple "for instances?" Okay ... JB Magic released a coin effect in which two coins are each separated and covered by a playing card. The cards are lifted and both coins are now under one card. This effect can actually be found in a major magic journal. The effect was created by Mort Rudnick, but JB Magic did not credit and I highly doubt JB Magic asked permission. A prominent mentalist released an effect where a thought of word, item, or whatever is revealed written as it were on the performer's arm. The effect comes DIRECTLY from Hugard's Magic Monthly 40 years PRIOR to the release of this prominent mentalist's effect - and NO credit given at all. Magic requires DISCIPLINE to learn - every bit as much as learning ANY art. Falling prey to what looks cool based upon strange camera angles and really bad Swedish metal or LA techno will frequently get you nowhere fast and guess what? Someone is going to fool YOU badly with something from Tarbell or Greater Magic or [insert classic book here]. However, some magicians are sticking by the maxim of keeping the magic IN focus rather than keeping the camera OUT of focus. A few of these magicians offering excellent material where the MAGIC is the focus include: Peter Duffie Cameron Francis Blue Crown (David Roth's magic is there as well as some other really GREAT magic) Dr. Michael Rubenstein, David Roth and Mike Gallo and the NYC Coin Seminar series. John makes a great point when he says, "if it's good, I'll buy it." Implicit in his statement is that John has done his homework. Magic is built on deception obviously, but, the last person that SHOULD be deceived is the magician. Ironic isn't how many magicians ARE deceived by these MTV marketing tactics? I am by NO means a neo-Luddite. I DO buy new effects. While I am mostly a book buyer, this year I purchased Rattled, Sugar Rush, and Chop. In each of these cases, I did my homework and each of these effects' demos kept the MAGIC in focus. Each of these effects are now becoming part of my working repertoire. So John, my thought is this: magicians need to make INFORMED decisions. Yes, magic has always had a bit of hyperbole; that is a part of magic's charm. But, all a magician needs to do is CALL a reputable dealer and get the skinny on the effect. A good dealer will tell you if she/he thinks the effect is worth it. Buck Bressler at IllusionsMagic in Cleveland has saved me a TON of money. Get to know your dealers folks! Ahimsa, Vlad |
Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
John,
Good point. I always shoot full demos of my stuff for my downloads. And while I include music and titles, I don't make them too fancy by any means. However, I am getting sick and tired of people reconstructing my stuff from demos and exposing it on YouTube. I've even met more than one person face to face at conventions who flat out tell me that they've basically learned how to do my tricks from watching them on YouTube! I don't think these people understand that it's not the best thing to tell me. So in the future, I might do a lot more demos like the one I did for A.C.E. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_WLMyL2OA The effect description is 100% accurate. But I just couldn't post an unedited demo because I knew people would reconstruct it and expose it all over the place. I know people don't like this. Full demos are better. But I'm just getting so sick of the exposure.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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Brandon Sheffield Regular user 147 Posts |
Cameron I don't think you did anything wrong with that promo at all! And the effect looks great by the way!!
Vlad: I wish I could agree with you on the card subject but I have never had anyone call me out on them. No more than they do when I use regular bikes. But here in Texas any Walmart or Target department store you go to have not only different color bikes but different versions like the special anniversary designs. Our book store also carries cards by Theory 11! I guess people around here are just used to seeing a variety of different decks. Colors and styles. Brandon |
Dacodakid Regular user Marina Del Rey, CA 133 Posts |
I ran across Jay Sankey's Astral Projection in an old Card Trick Encyclopedia the other day. It was called something different of course but was the same effect. (mind-blowing trick by the way.)
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mayniac Special user 616 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-08 12:45, Cameron Francis wrote: I totally understand, Cameron, and I think if people are just exposing your effects while you are trying to be so honest and upfront with your products, then that is a shame. Like the others said, if you started making more demos like that A.C.E. demo, then that would be fine. Your ads and videos are always honest so I wouldn't care about cuts in your videos. |
JohnGelasi Loyal user With just a snap, incredibly, I now have 228 Posts |
As a young magician myself (though 16, still in the "young" demographic), I totally agree that the Internet has given young magicians a bad name overall.
I myself have NEVER taken part in exposing the effects of others, though I have to say that I get a lot of comments on some of my YouTube videos (as I market my own effects)like "I'm going to do a performance of this!" (when it's an effect that I market, though they clearly won't actually buy it), or, "Can I do a tutorial of this" (NO!!). That's another thing that kills me.. All of the 8 and 9 year olds doing "tutorials" on YouTube for the effects of others. Just a week or so ago I put out a new effect on my YT page, only to find that one of my "loyal subscribers" had posted a performance of it, promising to "reveal" the effect in a later video. Hello?!? Did I authorize this? I make every effort to rally against "tutorials" on YouTube (unfortunately ran across one of your "18" the other day, Cameron). I don't get why these Pre teens think that it's okay to share the secrets of others. I guess some don't truly appreciate the art of magic. As Paul Hallas wrote in his book "Small But Deadly": It is illegal, morally wrong, and may cause the author to starve if you copy this in whole or part in any format, no matter how new or cool that format might be. Do the right thing, you'll feel better." - John |
JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Mr. Gelasi, I'm hearing excellent things about your work. Right on.
Cameron (I've got Kapow on the to-buy list, btw), that's a huge problem, and I don't mind a bits a pieces demo with a full description of the effect. The issue is the full disclosure. If I know what I'm buying, I have no complaint. Vlad, I've had the same experience with the odd decks, and I've had performances where no one thought anything of it. Who knows... Those seeking instant gratification need to do this little ritual. Everyday for a week, drink a properly pulled demitasse of espresso (and if you call it expresso may all of your teeth turn brown). Then, on that first day of week two, drink a nice piping hot cup of Sanka. How you like that instant gratification now? Huh? |
KyleMacNeill Inner circle 2757 Posts |
I agree with you guys.
I think that as a young magician (14), the biggest thing we can achieve together, is to educate these young magicians down the RIGHT PATHS in magic. Many people do not know of the proper routes of non - exposure, so I think that if we somehow talked to these wrong - doers, we could make them right - doers quite easily. I believe that the key to solving this problem is to educate them of the right ways. Then they will enjoy magic in a 'legal' and better - suited enviroment. And it is ashame that some young magicians are given bad names, that is why I think we need to teach them. I also believe that creating your own material and challenging your creative juices is key to learning the art of magic. That is my 2 cents, although my thoughts may be inexperienced, I hope you find them truthful nonetheless. Best wishes, Kyle MacNeill |
JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
Worth more than 2cents. I certainly didn't have such good sense at 14.
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Darrin Cook Special user 621 Posts |
Cameron,
I can empathize with you. Members here on the Café will complain if a video doesn't show every bit of a routine from start to finish. "Hey, you cut away! There's a huge hole in your effect you have to cover up with camera tricks!" On the other hand, if you show the entire routine, people just deconstruct it and copy it. Creators then respond with an MTV, bits and pieces, hip hop video, which gives no idea of the trick. Kyle, I realize I'm going to sound like an old codger here, but when I grew up there was no Internet. In order to get magic knowledge you had to work hard. I had to get my parents to drive me nearly thirty miles from town to get to a magic shop, and begged for magic gifts as presents, or saved up a dollar and sent away to a magic catalog. The guy at the magic shop coached me in the importance of non-exposure, as did the magic books I was able to get my hands on. A You Tube video is effortless, free, and without the guidance that comes from being introduced into magic by experienced magicians who not only know the sleights, but the moral guidelines, too (credit your sources, don't expose, don't steal another's material). It's encouraging to see young guys of your caliber in magic. (And you, too, John Gelasi. Keep up the good work.) |
KyleMacNeill Inner circle 2757 Posts |
Thanks guys, just my opinion.
I love creating and love performing, and I will definitely have a deck of cards nearby till I am no longer here. Kyle |
Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-08-08 18:09, Dacodakid wrote: When you get 50 posts and can access Secret Sessions, come to the thread titled Classic Periodicals. Ok, how to steer this on topic: IF a video should be shot, it should be directed by Francis Ford Coppola, Martin Scorsese, Sophia Coppola, or Peter Jackson. :P Vlad |
JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts |
I'd prefer Kevin Smith.
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JohnGelasi Loyal user With just a snap, incredibly, I now have 228 Posts |
Thanks, for the nice words, guys
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