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wardmagic Regular user 127 Posts |
I have a set of Kuma Tubes but would like to build a table for the production. I would like to start out with the tubes sitting on a four legged table with a table cloth draped over the table. The cloth covers the top 12-15 inches. After showing the tubes empty I would like to set the tubes down in the middle of the table and to prove there is nothing under the table pull the table cloth thru the tubes to remove it. As this is done the final load of the metal vase can be rasied up into the tubes from underneath the table as the cloth is removed.
I would like information on building such a apparatus/table. Any plans or information on this type of table would be appreciated. I currently have a fish bowl production from a similar way of displaying the table but still need a way of locking the elevated section after it is raised. You can PM me if you like or reply with suggestions or comments. Thanks for everyones help. |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I think the table must be constructed so it does not appear to hold anything or the load is larger then the table.
The audience knows when you're reaching all the way through a tube and pulling something from underneath so you need a pop-up attachment that lifts the load up -or-tipping the tube in the process of the last production. This can only be done if you cover the top with other production items. Also. A 4 legs causes more suspicion then a single upright. I made something similar and experienced all those issues.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
You may find some construction methods in my "WAH Production Box" in the Wizards' Journal #10. WAH stands for "Westgate, Aldini, and Histed" from whom I got my inspiration. The particular method you are using is from the "Westgate Tray Production," but if it has "feet" beneath the tray, that's Aldini's contribution. My locking mechanism is extremely simple, but it works with one hand, is very stable, and that's what counts. That's my contribuition, but "WAHG Production Box" always sticks in my throat, so keep my initial out of it.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Hay Jim
I have a vanishing bowl, flipover box that holds the same bowl. Was that yours too?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
wardmagic Regular user 127 Posts |
What do you think about magnets as the clipping mechanism to hold the raised platform in place after the magician raises it? The table cloth is pulled thru the tubes.
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
The way I load up my box with stuff would require very strong magnets and they might give their presence away by jumping together loudly, but you could substitute small magnets where I show Velcro on my gimmick just to hold it in the right position after it is raised.
Jay, I think the vanishing bowl box is an Okito or Fu-Manchu device. The ones I have seen always leaked, but with the new silicone rubber sheets available these days, it could make a come-back.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
The elevator can be locked with spring steel clips (think dove pan in reverse). The clips would be on the stationary part of the prop, and they would engage a lip on the elevator part. Once raised, it cannot drop again without depressing the clips, kind of like how you extend and close an umbrella.
The water bowl vanish box was an Okito creation, and it was more like a tear-apart box, and not like a flip-over. The lid (containing the bowl) would be removed and placed on a chair, leaning against the back. The small door on the lid would drop down, allowing the viewer to "see" the chair back through the opening. It did use a gasket-like sheet of rubber to seal the bowl. Modern materials would make that much less prone to leaks.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Clips: I would make them overlap horizontally, so after the load is in place you twist it to lock it.
I think mags would clunk. Michael / Jim. The box is a flipover and surprisingly doesn't leak. It's red with a thick black painted border around the lid and bottom. I'll take a photo if you want, Also can take a photo of an antique Ho Yam item I restored that uses the overlaying horizontal locking mech. This is also the same as the lockIng mech inside a RIngs and Things duck pan and a lot of other older style round production tubes with a traveling base. Did everyone follow all that?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
I have no idea where your flip over box came from. I was commenting on Jim's mention of the water tight seal as possibly being an Okito idea. It is fully explained in the Albo Okito DVDs.
The twist lock you describe is the same as on a duck pan that I have. To use it on the table idea for the Kuma Tubes might require too much hand work, as one hand needs to be managing the cloth (pulling it up though the tube) as the platform is raised, probably with the other hand unless some powered elevator is used. If the platform had a minimum of three spring-loaded clips, like on an umbrella, it would lock quite securely once raised. As long as the mechanism is built without a lot of slop, it's not going to fall once everything clicks into place. In this case, it would be a good idea to keep everything on track as with the Aldini Bowl tray with the legs. Nothing can get out of alignment. The clips could actually be built into the legs like the shaft on an umbrella. Probably more sure-fire that way. I agree on the magnets being too loud. I made a coin in wool nest of boxes that uses magnets to seal the slide in place. Although that work is done before the show while setting the trick, it makes a very loud SNAP when it grabs. The clips I described can be padded with felt to soften any clicking sound. They would also be a lot more secure than magnets unless some really strong ones were used. The weight of the vase, water, other load inside, and the force created by performing would be pushing on magnets the whole time. Too risky for me.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
The water bowl vanish was Okito's idea in the lid. Abbott's made a version that Jerry Conklin did for years. It was more like a take apart vanish for doves.
Horace Marshall made a version on a pole that I still make and Gen Grant made something similar. The elevator load will work but seems like a lot of work for table that does not sound all that deceptive. I would encourage you to look up the ideas of Billy Russell in the 1950"s in the Linking Ring. He had a nice table idea for a load in the table and then you could see through after. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
wardmagic Regular user 127 Posts |
Paul Daniels did a version of the Kuma Tubes with the table I have in mind. The ideas of the clips sound like it would work well. You can see Paul Daniels version on YouTube. Type in Paul Daniels rohren to view it.
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Here's a picture of that flipover, It doesn't leak maybe I got a good one. Notice how thick the wood is. It's not new.
Ward, what's the load? what's the difference in size, is it more silks or one big piece?Now that I think about it, Having an elevator that isn't self powered requires a T in the top (probably on a hinge)- otherwise the tubes would be sitting on the load and if the load isn;t flat the tubes will tip over. Click here to view attached image.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I watched the video
For the record, Woody gave me the rights to make his Appearing Radio Table whichis very similar to the table Paul used. I wouldn't call it a Minion because it only goes in one direction but It has the locking mech. you're after. It's basically two tubes with dowel rod pistons at each end and a long spring inside. When the G hits Home, the 4 pins go into 4 recesses softly, quietly and neatly. Keeping the g on a horizontal plane is a different issue. However. I didn't like the moves in Pauls routine. Once the load was in place he made no attempt to obviscate. I think the audience would appreciate a few pass-throughs. Everyone might say OK, but he started with empty tubes. Yes But as soon as the first production was made it would have been a stronger routine to include an aquitment in the same manor a Sawing In Half has the two doors or you lower the back on a Disembodied or you put the blades in a Mismade... I really didn't like it when he put the vase back inside at the end That just says "trick" (but that's just my opinion) I will post a vid of my routine. There are 4 different phases showing the tubes empty and 4 sets of big productions, followed by a topper which would make Richard proud. Richard. I know Swogers Kuma routine (have it on film) and I think his Kuma Tubes were the best thing he did - even better then his ball manip. He flipped the tubes over, passed them through each other and they were the same model as Pauls.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
AGMagic Special user Cailf. 775 Posts |
Jay, did you make the Appearing Radios for Woody? I have one and it is beautiful. I was going to suggest it as a model for the Kuma tube table but I wasn't sure how far to go with the explanation since I didn't know who held the rights to it.
Tim Silver - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Magic-Woodshop/122578214436546
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. Visualize Whirled Peas! |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
If your leg is a straight board I didn't make it. I'm making a "L" shaped leg that uses one bolt to assemble. On larger tables, like Pauls, it wouldn't make a difference in transport but in tall slender tables the take-a-part aspect is a nice feature for transportg
So I'm exploring the possibility of patenting it because it's something that a few furniture makers and illusion builders would copy, in a heartbeat.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Never knew Jim did the tubes. I am sure he did a great job with it. One of the keys with performing this routine, is the slam bam hap hazard approach like there is nothing there that sells it.
Love to see the video sometime. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Slam bam and the finger underneath:) Yes, Jim was masterful at many routines but the tubes was a treat.
Yes, I need to start posting more videos including that one of Jim too. So was that box (pictured above) the Okito model?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
Higgenbottom New user 84 Posts |
The Paul Daniels video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvvhfD4dRKM .
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