Magicwalsh@gmail.com

Okay I am going to play devils advocate on this subject please do not shoot me as I do not have my heart behind this point of view. With that said this industry does believe it is above following "business" laws and rules. There is a lot that goes into any good release that is true. Any time someone releases an item they know that there are those that will steal it and sell knock offs. But the all mighty dollar over rides this fact and the items are released anyway. If you don't want your item stolen and knocked off never let it out or patent it. Yes it is expensive to patent and there are millions of tricks that would never be put out because it would cost to much to patent there by eliminating any profit. So....that leaves option two never put it out. Unfortunately not buying knockoffs will never work, we as humans will always want things we cannot have. With this in mind if you are going to sell you can't have your cake and and eat too. The best advice is try to sell as many of your item as you can in 90 days, gut the pig, and move onto your next project because after that the knockoffs are coming and maybe the craze will be gone and no one will be left who hadn't already bought one.

Funny. Jay Sankey's Three Ring Circus was never knocked off, as far as I know. Hmmm...

Doug

This goes for anybody who creates anything in China, STOP IT! Your ideas and creations WILL BE STOLEN and resold under your own name. Make your products in your country of origin and support, local workers. Even if the Asians deconstruct your ideas, the quality will never pass muster. As long as crater keep having things made in China, their ideas will be ripped off.

Now why is there a market for the rip offs? I believe that not all magicians (especially hobbyists) will pay full price for the originals. They see no benefit in supporting creators or their work. They are "secret seekers" just wanting the "know how" or will use the props for impressing their friends. So why spend such high prices for props that in many cases cost, just pennies to make?

Here is where I believe the true problem is. While the cost of development can be quite great in time especially, in many cases the props themselves can be quite inexpensive. And while it's true that one pays for the item in it's totality, there was a time when QUALITY mattered.

How many of us collect P&L, Merv Taylor, Owen and such just because of the craftsmanship of the props? Some (not all) of today's so called creators even have us making our own props, providing only a DVD and some materials. This is again what cause some to turn to knock offs. IT'S WRONG! but answers the question as to possibly, why?

So while I think the stellar products of ppl like Joe Porper and others will always be highly coveted, we must demand these high standards from all magic creators to STOP the move of even the novice to rip offs. If ppl don't see the benefit of owning an original they will continue to buy rip offs and the creators, will have only themselves to blame.

I remember when the early knockoffs of John Cornelius' Perfect Pen Thru came out. They were gritty and didn't work worth beans, but there was one imbecile on this forum who said the gritty feel was a feature that kept the gimmick from slipping back into place too quickly.

Some of the European manufacturers are ripping off American products as well. Their claim is that their customers want these products, and if we won't ship our major illusions overseas, they will be "forced" by economic pressure to manufacture them. In a way, it is kind of funny. I've seen Chinese and European knockoffs of Walter Blaney's ladder suspension. They aren't even made the same way as Walter's props, and they absolutely DO NOT WORK. So, purchasing one of these knockoffs is part of its own punishment.

I just got a set of Jo Porrpurs Linkin Fingar Ryngs. Made out of the finest compressed lint. What a bargain at $6.49!

Surely that wasn't a knock off, right?

The "bargain-seeker" who falls prey to the cheesy quality chinese ripoffs will learn their lesson as soon as their props start falling apart. One would hope that their patronage of these purveyors of imitation junk will cease once they have been burnt. The ones who will keep buying are those that are young and just starting out and cannot afford domestic prices for these items; for them, the alternative may be to buy nothing.

What happens when you buy a knock off and it's the same or better than the original? I buy an appearing cane form China on ebay that cost 5euros. The same cane 20 years ago would cost 20euros "DM" form Germany back then.

I have not seen any knock offs with Appearing Canes from China. They have their own design, only borrowing features from the famous Japanese brand canes. To be a knock off, they would have to claim they are a Tannen's, Russ Walsh, German, etc. The use of the name Appearing or Vanishing Cane, is not what designates as a certain brand. A knock off is an exact copy of another person's product.

The reason they were able to only charge you 5 euros, is because they only pay their laborer's 3 cents an hour, and they work 12 hours shifts every day. Most the time they cannot go home until they quit or get fired. It is as close to slave labor as you can get without calling it slave labor.

Bill, abuse of employees sadly happens in every Country, inclusive in America, so this is not a Chinese phenomenon. The occurrence of these situations are less prominent in developed Countries because of the enforcing of the laws, but still it happens, gardeners, restaurants, clothing, even in the financial industry people works more than 60hs a week, which is also understood as an abusive way of employment.

Besides that, which is despicable, the labor cost is much lower because the cost of living is lower. This is a fact. Cheap labor is not a big issue to the average people in America or anywhere because this is the way for you to have 3 TV set, 2 tablets, a new Iphone 8, a $20K car that otherwise would be 3 times higher, apples and strawberries in your supermarket and many other examples.

Copies of IP and Copyright, always existed (Apple interface and Xerox) and it has to do with the benefits they bring to the regular person, the humans try to obtain the greatest advantage with the less effort, this is why we put our house close to the river so we walk less for water, the penalty to put your house besides a neighbor on the wrong river would be dead (far west) or being part of a lawsuit today
If now you use the example on magic products that by volume and value is almost nil to the society, and you buy a cane or a Joe Poper's product for less money, the penalty for that is non-existent, besides 50 people in a green forum complaining about it and/or your conscious , not enough deterrent. I don't think that knockoff can be stop at all, maybe diminish through law enforcement, but it will keep coming because it is seen as a benefit without penalty

And let's also not forget that not all products require manual labor. Plenty of things are of the type that can come straight off out of a robot assembly line, with no work from humans. No sweatshop required.

I was talking with my vendor in China, I buy extremely small servo motors from China. You need to have a Corporate Attorney read over your contract before you sign it and here is the reason why. The contracts are similar to US Mfg contracts with the exception of something very vital. Say I go to have Tayade balls made and I can gets them for 1.00.a piece, but I have to place an order of 20,000 units. Of course, you don't want to take possession of all 20,000 units right away but you need that number to get the price break you need. The contract will read that you must take possession of say 2000 units to begin and then "X" amount afterwards. But what happens when you don't sell the first 2000 units and default on the contract? Well two things and both are not good. The first thing that happens your quote is no longer valid and the price can go up on remaining unclaimed parts. This is the part that is really not good. The remaining inventory can be purchased at the quoted price by a 3rd party so the Mfg'ing company can recoup the money defaulted on. This same Claus can be found in US contracts as well. They can sell the defaulted product under the name of the effect. This is how factories are getting away with it not only in China or the US but other country's as well.

I simply purchase my servo's directly from the factory and must take 100 units each order or the price goes up. But since it is not my product I'm only subject to paying a higher cost. This has yet to happen. There are a lot of rip offs still in China but the ones that advertise undera products name and the creator is most likely been covered in the contract. There is one person in particular that this is happening to and really I don't feel a bit sorry for him. My father teamed up with someone prominent on the Café and approached the individual about making the props for them. They never heard back from the individual . Later that year at WMS I was told my father and the partner walked up the individuals booth and there set their product they had discussed with him. He ripped them off, it cost them both about 30K.

So while it is happening in China, India, Mexico and right here in the US. I asked my father why they didn't have the individual sing a non disclosure form before talking to him, my father said "We thought we could trust him" *** shame.

Jake Jr.

There is a website now that has every Penguin lecture and Murphys lecture almost every trick and book released and they charge 2.00 to at most 6.00 for the most expensive DVD. Any tricks with props are garbage but what about the information on all the DVD lectures and even books that are digitized and sold for 2 or 3.00.
How long will it be before creators just stop publishing their creations.

If you're not sure a website is an American company located IN the U.S., don't order from them. Better yet, pick up the phone and call them first. If there's no phone in the contact info, that's a red flag. Asian websites will show phony pictures of their showrooms, stockrooms, etc. full of smiling, happy American-looking faces. Let the buyer beware!