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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So what is it that gives you this authority?
You seem to think just having an opinion makes you right. Having a forum flourish with bad information is not good for those who listen to the information. I am sure this escapes you. You pop in occasionally. Them you come in, judge, and declare how things will be while calling others a bully. Why don't you go over this thread for me and see who it was that is really the problem.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
The point is people come to a forum to ask questions from those that know and have experience. The problem is many don't like the answers they hear and can't handle it. Without those offering their knowledge and experience this just becomes the blind (and unskilled, unknowledegable) leading the blind. How is that somehow better, more inviting or productive?
Seems like someone who wants to use this place to start selling something but doesn't want their materials to be scrutinized by those with knowledge and experience. Offering experience, insight, knowledge and wisdom - for free is somehow considered "bullying"? Good luck with your "movement". It's always amazing when someone who is not a regular contributing member "pops in" to tell everyone and longtime contributors how it is here and how it works. Cut to the chase. You've come here for a reason. What's your purpose if you don't like the way the communiuty is? |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
I can't speak for James - nor do I need to, considering his reputation outside of this particular forum. However, I can say this from personal experience.
There are a few names on this particular sub-forum that tend to pitch in on any thread. The answers given are almost always condescending, egotistical, and quite frankly, harsh. They claim they only want to provide the accurate information to prevent the deterioration of the quality of hypnosis out there, but in reality what you are doing is literally causing the deterioration. Why? Because you are actively pushing people who are just beginning away from sources of 'accurate' and 'quality' knowledge, and towards less high quality products because the people selling those products aren't jerks. People do not want to talk to people who insult them, talk down to them, or otherwise demean them (At least, not most people - there's groups for those kinds of people). I assume it has never occurred to you folks that if you took the time to be a pleasant person, people might actually listen to you and the general community would benefit. But undoubtedly, this post, like James', will simply be shredded because I lack a reputation in your circles.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea your answer has nothing to do with how anyone will respond. It is all about everyone else.
You Jane nothing to do with it. Others are the entire problem. You hold no responsibility.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Maybe there should be a definition of deterioration of hypnosis? I would've thought vendors who put up fake testimonials and write copy that shows clearly they aren't the best source for information on a particular subject would be the cause of deterioration?
I started this thread I actually thought it was a serious subject and thought it was useful. There really is a lot of crap sold and bad information given in products and on forums. I'm not sure if this place would flourish though it seems like school kids have stopped spending their pocket money on street hypnosis. Christopher..... "accurate" "quality information"...... How do you know? I mean maybe you don't - maybe some of us are right. maybe its you who is egotistical? Maybe its you that's pitching in on this thread and attacking people? In the past when this place used to flourish it was full of false info to sell products. And the so called "names" were saying anything to sell their crap. During a phone call with one of them they told me they would not do anything whatsoever without insurance as it was far too risky. Yet they were telling everyone in her not to bother with insurance just go out and practice anywhere. Of course they were selling a product. And telling people on here to do something they would never do themselves. ~Ive have got better things to do anyway I wouldn't want to stop this place flourishing again... so I'll be stepping back anyway.. Its boring around here anyway... I'll make room for those un egotistical experts and smart thinkers..... Im sure James will be pitching his stuff soon... |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I like the way accurate information is the reason people stop coming here.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Mindpunisher - I think I was unclear. When I said people are being pushed away from "accurate" and "quality" information, I meant the information that the folks here are providing. Folks like yourself, Mindpro, and Dannydoyle. You are clearly very experienced and knowledgeable - but the way the answers are given puts a sour taste in people's mouth and they don't want to continue being abused. So they leave.
How do you expect to get people to follow the "correct" sources if you make them feel like crap whenever they try to ask you for advice? Or if questions are ignored? I will take your word for it that the forums used to be full of people just selling stuff. I wasn't here, and given the rest of the Café, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. That being said - I have personally watched several people be chased off by the unwelcoming attitude presented by the few people who post regularly here. Perhaps those people just need thicker skin - or perhaps some people need to remember that everyone started out knowing nothing and they can't go straight to being experts with 20 years experience.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
I still think this forum is helpful to set people on the proper path and to let them know and be aware of what is out there and that all of it is not good information. There are still many here, even though we may disagree from time to time, that offer and share a wealth of information on the topic of Stage Hypnosis or performance hypnosis. This plsce has never been about therapuetc hypnosis, theory or some of the otehr stuff that gets dragged in here.
It is also about real hypnosis. So many come here looking at hypnosis as a "trick" or an "effect" and I feel collectively we set them straight to these realities of which they may not know or understand. The only ones that get pi***ed off are usually those selling crap targeted toward magicians as an "easy or shortcut" way to learn hypnosis, or worse yet, fake hypnosis. I see nothing wrong for those with experience on the topic calling it the way t is. Too bad if some don't like the delivery or that it's not presented to their liking on a silver platter with a pretty bow on it surrounded by fairy dust. Again, that is not the reality of our industry. I think if anything those of us here should be commended in our efforts to keep it real and for cleaning the place up from all of the "quick-fix" self-produced crap that has infected our community here. If Stage Hypnosis has settled down and it has cause this place to slow down, that is fine with most of us regular members, as we remember how bad it got with the whole kiddie movement, newbie, street/ambush wave and instant-gurus that tried to use this place as a self-fulfilling, self-profiting opportunity for themselves. The truth is those that are the real deal, still remain and it is those with less than natural intentions or those that do not contribute to the community here that have such problems, narrow perceptions and do not regulary participate. They too aren't very beneficial to the forum anyhow. Some don't want to hear the truths and realities. Some of take pride in this place and many have been helped by those here. I also think it's wrong for those who only pop in occasionally and rarely contribute other than to offer complaints and to try to determine the value of this forum and to critique and judge contributing members. I personally take offense or this. It is no different than any other profession where long time experienced pros think, feel, view and operate on levels far greater than newer, younger or inexperienced level guys. It's offensive, disrespectful and uninviting. We are all not on the same level and are all not equal. It's a simple reality. Like Tony said, put down your defensiveness and preconceived judgements based in "opinion" and start dealing with some facts, become a regular and contributing member, and then you have a position to offer such insight. Like Tony, I think your perceptions would likely be different. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
OK lets say not everyone has 20 years experience. Why is it then that those without it want to be considered as if their opinion DOES have that much? See that is where it gets frustrating. When you tell someone something from experience and then they want to tell you that you are wrong based on "I am entitled to my opinion."
You say you were not here when the things happened that cause a lot of the frustration. Yet you feel qulified to sit in jugment of those who were here. How does that work exactly? I hate to break it to you but if you were in a LIVE situation, with live people and a guy with little or no experience starts to spout off as if he is the worlds foremost authority in a room with people that had decades of experience the response would the same.It would not be welcoming at all and as a matter of fact it woul be downright unfriendly. Do you ever think of it from the other point of view? Or do you ONLY consider what is on the surface and not try to look beneith to find out what is really going on?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2016, WitchDocChris wrote: It kind of works both ways Christopher. It doesn't make me feel good seeing crap being peddled and keeping quiet about it. But yes its time to step back.. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Again, I have not once said that your collective experience is not valuable, nor that you are not each personally knowledgeable.
What I am commenting on is the delivery of the information, nothing more. And yes, I am speaking from opinion which is born from my experiences here. Because repeatedly I have watched perfectly valid threads get squashed and suffocated while a few very vocal members take turns expressing how valid their opinion is based on their vast experience. The thing is this: Yes, your experience is valuable and your knowledge is as well. I wish you continued success in your careers. I will say this though - the knowledge and experience you have gained over the years is not incredibly unique. Hypnosis has been around a very long time and some very smart people have studied it. The half dozen or so people I have seriously studied have all be very polite and respectful when I've interacted with them, and they are a pleasure to watch on video lessons (Yes - I admit it - I have not had personal training yet. I'm saving up to go to Toronto next year). That is not the case with coming here. ("Why do you keep coming back then?" is usually what's asked next) - I come here because I am hoping to find more resources to learn. Whether you consider my experience to be worthless or not, I am passionate about this subject and I spend most of my time studying various aspects of hypnosis to improve my skills and knowledge. So, I genuinely wish you continued success and happy lives. And the vitriolic attitudes here will continue to motivate me not to invest much time in the big green monster.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2016, WitchDocChris wrote: But who are you to expect how others choose to deliver the information they are offering for free? That is just the lack of respect I refer to. You should be appreciative that members (longtime experienced working professionals) are taking the time to respond to your questions, regardless if you like the information offered, tone or packaging. So the insight and information isn't good enough, now you EXPECT it to be delivered a certain way? Or you then just take you ball and go home? Who would want to be part of that? Who would want to assist you with such regard and lack of appreciation and respect? When one is to learn they are to listen more than speak, not speak so much. Otherwise it just seems like baiting and flaming. If you are here to truly learn and advance your interest, as I suggest to almost everyone who first comes here, take the time to get a feel for the community, to fit in, introduce yourself with a proper introduction. Learn the group, the players. Perhaps it is you that is coming here with false expectations and the tone and feedback you are getting is due to the way you are approaching the community, the situation and your expectations? I know the written word can easily be misinterpreted, so understand I do not mean this badly or harshly, but rather seriously with true insight and intent. We welcome those that are truly here to learn, participate and fit in. Those without preconceived expectations or agendas. The more you participate the more we get to know you. "Popping in" as several of you have said may very well be part of the problem. You only seem to come when you want something and then complain when you don't get it and complain when you do get it but not as you would like it. Sometimes the mirror can be most telling. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Again, assumptions. "You only seem to come when you want something" - I scan threads regularly just rarely jump in because I rarely have anything useful to add. Usually by the time I read a thread it has already dissolved into posturing and insults. I come here because I am interested in hypnosis and I was hoping that there would be occasional references to resources I could study. So far - not so much. But I remain ever hopeful.
I don't expect anything above basic manners and basic levels of respect. Maybe this is because I was raised in a different time? My parents taught me to treat everyone with respect because society does not function without people all across the spectrum. "Who would want to assist you with such regard and lack of appreciation and respect?" - I am "assisted" by pretty much everyone I interact with outside of these forums. Perhaps this is because I make a point of treating everyone with respect immediately, unless of course I am disrespected first. I have little patience for people who look down on me. Do not make the mistake of thinking that just because you know more than me on this subject, that you are better than me. I am perfectly comfortable looking in the mirror. I am perfectly comfortable admitting when I am wrong. Like a scientist, I can only learn if I question everything I think I know and explore the knowledge and approach it with new angles. This forum, however, is rather stuck in a single direction and mind set.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Scanning threads does not give you the same feel as interacting with people. You are making several rash assumptions.
The written word has no tone. It is added by the reader. When you hear a tone, most times that is on you. For whatever reason YOU add a tone and often you add the wrong one. So instead of jumping to a conclusion of what tone is being used an being all ego offened and get all "don't disrespect me" maybe it would be better if you asked. Don't tell people what tone they are using. ASK them IF there genuinely is a tone, they will let you know. All I see are big speaches about how OTHERS need to communicate, and when it comes down to it perhaps it is those giving the speaches who need to look at how THEY are communicating. Then you have the whole wanting to tell others HOW they convey the information they have to you working. Why is it is I have information you want, you get to dictate to me how it is I have to convey this information to you? Not only do we have to offer this information for free, but we must do it in a way that seems to suit your style? WellI for one am not going to care. I write with NO tone here. I simply am not going to go through all the bs of having to worry what you feel when you read information. Try to read with no tone. That is my advice.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: This attitude is why all the big names of Mentalism avoid this place like the plague now.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea because all the big names of mentalism used to be regulars in this section.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaarlo von Freymann Loyal user Finland 203 Posts |
Dear friends of the Café I am surprised there could be any thread like this about fraudulent testimonials and hypnosis. I do not use hypnosis or claim to hypnotize specs when performing magic except as a very clear JOKE when doing the 100 Monkeys "you can't read anymore" trick. I am very aware of the power of hypnosis because a competent professional hypnotist cured my stubborn ulcer 50 years ago and taught me how to go into self-hypnosis so I did not have to visit him more than 4 times. But it should be clear that anyone putting out fake testimonials should by considered a crook. And I for one feel people like that should be taken to court just like the guys claiming to be able to heal cancer because they have a direct line to the Lord when in fact they have a covert radio link to a stooge. It seems so far few have gone to jail.
PLEASE LET us be honest entertainers. When people ask me how I am able to do what I do with Craig's dice (I have 4 of them), I say, "I do not really know", which is not very far from the truth, "but my dear Lady, I will tell you in case you come with me to the seashore in front of my house on midnight the 24th of June" (the sun in Northern Finland never sets in that period and even in Helsinki you can read a newspaper all night long) People laugh, that solves the question. No-one would consider wasting the mid-summer-night meeting an octogenarian !
Kaarlo von Freymann - Helsinki- Finland
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