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KentuckySlim New user 34 Posts |
Stumbled across this video earlier and thought it might be of interest to people here.
Here is the video. Electronically gaffed roulette ball controlled via a key fob. Press the button and the ball apparently vibrates until it jumps out of whatever slot it landed in. |
TH10111 Regular user 155 Posts |
Nice find Slim!
Looks like they've got the amount of vibration calibrated such that it looks believable but also only typically jumps one segment at a time, making it perfect for a red/black bet. After watching that, YouTube directed me to this shocking video of an online blackjack dealer dealing a second: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-OssVlvgc |
KentuckySlim New user 34 Posts |
That second is so blatant on camera, but would likely fly right by most people playing live.
I've seen the original version of this without the blurred faces - right before the move it appears that the Dealer hears something off screen, then looks straight at the camera and flashes a smile while dealing the deuce. People's eyes are naturally drawn to a smile - lucky somebody was recording it. |
TH10111 Regular user 155 Posts |
Yea, you're right. If playing live, unless you happen to be looking directly at the deal, it could easily be missed.
It's interesting to know that the dealer hears something before dealing the second. I think the smile shows that this guy was potentially a professional cheat or part of a professional group, since you don't get that kind of practical psychological thinking from Erdnase! Just before the deuce it looks like he's feeling for a blister, which is how I assume he knew to deal the second. But this then brings up the question of which cards were marked. The dealer has a 10 and the player has 11, and if the cards were dealt legitimately then the player would finish on 19 and the dealer would get 16, which would either cause him to loose or draw another card and risk going bust, depending on the rules of the casino. If only the 10 values cards and aces were marked, then the dealer would know that the next card wasn't one of these, which means that the player wouldn't make 21. So he could have been dealing the second with the hope that the next card would have a value of 10, giving the player a win. Alternatively, and maybe more likely, if the 8's and higher were marked, the dealer would know that the next card would give the player a hand worth 19, 20 or 21 (not including the potential ace), so dealing the second would prevent this and give the dealer a hand of 18, 19, 20 or 21. This would almost guarantee the dealer a win. Though, to me, using the punch in this scenario is adding unnecessary difficulty, whereas as something like juice doesn't show up well on camera, would be less obvious and give the dealer more information. The dealer could have been given the instruction to deal the second from the off-camera speaker, which would then suggest that the order of the cards is known. Though it is highly unlikely that a verbal signal would be used, so the off-camera speaker was more likely adied misdirection or a reminder to smile. TH |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
If they just used a wheel with a 00 no cheating is necessary. Roulette is such a bass bet that no cheating is necessary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 21, 2017, TH10111 wrote: The strange thing to me is figuring out the logistics of it all. I mean I think the last hand was 2 deuces and were split. (Against a King go figure.) Heck a person playing THAT dumb doesn't need to be cheated in the first place. The house eventually ends up with all their money in the first place. So then how exactly does the dealer know which card is going to come next? I mean does he memorize the entire compliment of the shoe? Without knowing what you are switching the card for/from, what is the point in doing the double in the first place? Does he check them on EVERY double? I mean logistically it just is an insurmountable task that will hurt as much as help right? Unless you have a way of knowing not only what the next card is, but the following card what good does it do? PLUW if he does it on every double/split or what not then it becomes a tell quite quickly doesn't it? I mean it is a different thing happening all the time and it will be picked up on eventually right? Maybe not I'm just asking. I mean you may be giving them a 4 but then you get a 5 and a 10 and you bust out. Without knowing the rest of the cards and their particular order how does doing a second help in this case? I'm not saying it doesn't happen or didn't happen. Not at all. I'm just amazed at the logistics of it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
TH10111 Regular user 155 Posts |
Hey Dannydoyle,
I'm not sure what you mean about the 00 wheel making the vibrating ball gaff useless... The 00 improves the chances of the house, so do you mean that from the casinos point of view, the addition of such a gimmick would really be a waste of effort? I assumed the idea was that, as a punter/bettor you somehow switched the balls and cheated money out of the casino. If you are thinking the opposite then I agree, it is an unnecessary gaff. Haha, in the blackjack video, I hadn't thought about the fact that the player may not be playing basic strategy and therefore not require additional exploitation (obviously blackjack isn't my game!). In the scenario I described, in which the dealer is using a blister, the choice of taking a second is more of a probabilistic play, as opposed to a guaranteed win. Since, if the second card was a 10 value the dealer would loose or push anyway. I also agree that this is a risky maneuver considering it's on camera, so unless you were sure about the hand, why would you take the risk? But by the same reasoning, if you're dealing blackjack and the probabilities are in your favour anyway, why take the risk? Also, the dealer doesn't appear to be feeling for a blister on the previous hits. So, maybe this is because he doesn't have time, or maybe there is no blister at all! I agree that it would quickly become a tell if he did it repetitively. But then this adds to the question of 'why do it at all?' TH |
Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Guy, do you think this digital simulation of someone dealing a ridiculously obvious second deal is something to take seriously? Does it appear to perhaps be a joke or something created for amusement?
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TH10111 Regular user 155 Posts |
I think that for the sake of an interesting conversation I would be willing to suspend disbelief...
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts |
In a situation like the one shown on the video, there would be some previous intent on the part of the house to deal a second (marked cards).
If that intent was indeed a policy of the house (or why would the dealer bother cheating?), then it would seem that the house could afford the few grand it would cost for a nice second dealing shoe that would make for a far more deceptive package. Indeed, in this specific situation, a second dealing shoe would be impossible to examine, and the move itself would be invisible to the camera. As it was shown in the video, it's painfully obvious that any duffer could record the game, and then go back and spot the ridiculously overt second deal. But as this is some weird, online, live Blackjack game, with gawd knows what kind of oversight and monitoring ... I'm going to presume the second "demo" was largely done knowing it would be analyzed and certainly discovered ... the motive for which could be pretty much anything. So I'm going with "fake" ... undertaken for reasons unknown. The roulette ball gaff implies that this is a wheel that has to withstand some sort of official inspection, thus the need for the ability to gaff and un-gaff the wheel as required. Without that need to withstand inspection, simply gaffing the wheel to favor "0" or "00" would seem like a far more productive undertaking for the house than a bouncing ball, one that (realistically) simply goes from one random number to another random number. At least with an unbalanced wheel, you're permanently swinging the odds over to the houses favor ... not something that can be said for the random vibra-ball. And like Danny said, with 5+ per cent already permanently swinging the houses way ... who but the greediest of sawdust joints would even bother? |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 27, 2017, TH10111 wrote: Yes my point with roulette is that with a 00 wheel the house cheating is pointless. Heck the game at all doesn't need to cheat the player. Would like being cheated at Keno for God sake. Why bother? Yes the wole "why do it?" thing springs to my mind. Also I have never seen a roulette game where players ever get to handle the ball so I assumed this was a casino cheat and sort of pointless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Also with roulette from a house point of view you have to calculate all the bets on the layout in order to swing it in the profitable direction. Plus if you go from red to black, and end up paying off a bet on the single number or a 12 group you have just cost yourself money.
You would have to calculate every bet then how it didn't hurt you. As mentioned above the advantage is already so great and the people run to play it! Why bother?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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