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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
I used to perform Jay Sankey's Back In Time all the time back when I was performing magic regularly for the paying public many years ago, since my return to magic I have been mainly using Joshua Jay's handling from his dvd method in magic - Live in the UK.
If anyone knows of anymore variations of Sankey's Back in time and where they can be found please do let me know |
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MitchC Elite user Can't believe I only have 415 Posts |
I'll have to look up Sankey's Back In Time to see if it is anything like Joshua Jay's 'Back In Time' (learning this now - KILLER)
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sgtgrey Special user Austin, TX 839 Posts |
I would say the only thing similar between the two is the premise about going back in time. Sankey's version uses the Sid Lorraine sl*p shuffle, whereas Joshua Jay's uses a very streamlined handling to get to the Jennings/Goodwin display (one of my favorite discrepant moves ever). Both are great effects, but I will admit the typical in the hands triumph I do much of the time is Joshua Jay's handling or Kostya Kimlat's Culligula triumph. To be honest, there are so many versions of sl*p shuffle triumphs I hardly know where to begin (I just checked my triumph notes I started to put together about 2 years ago when I was looking at every handling I could find - there was around 300 variations from published works in that spreadsheet, and I know it's missing some!) Probably the best places to start your search would be:
1) Ron Bauer's manuscript on the "Fair & Sloppy" - it has 2 great touches any magician who uses this method should know about, imo. 2) Denis Behr's archive on the move/routines here: http://archive.denisbehr.de/show.php?cat=1188 3) I'd also recommend Doc Eason's Card Under Glass DVD, believe it or not - he does a version of this effect, and talks at length about certain touches that definitely help Thinking further off the top of my head, I'd recommend also looking into Giobbi's handling in Card College (5?), and Paul Cummins' in his FASIU notes. Best of luck in your search! |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I think Samkey's Back in Time is great just the way it is
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Thanks for everyones input much appreciated
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orchid666 Special user u.k 626 Posts |
Effects similar or based on Sankeys Back in time..
Kneill X - Pop out triumph ( The last prediction dvd/MagicVampire magazine vol1) Roy walton - Travellers in time ( The complete Walton v2 I think) Waltons effect is up there in my top 10 KX |
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thesmilingmule New user 12 Posts |
The Walton effect isn't anywhere close to a slop shuffle triumph with a selected card.
Check out Mike Powers' variation of Marlos Triumph approach in his book Power Plays for one of the better variations. |
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jaschris Loyal user 223 Posts |
Not trying to be controversial, but I think people do a disservice to Sankey's Back in Time when they refer to it as a Triumph type routine. Yes, it has the familiar element of Triumph, in that during the course of the routine the cards go from an apparently mixed up state (face up mixed with face down)to a non mixed up state. But the trick is so much more. It really is more of a time travel concept, hence the name. The scene at the end becomes identical to the scene at the beginning, no one sees it coming, and therefore it provides a really great moment of astonishment. I do the trick all the time. I think Triumph routines (selected card ending face up in face down deck or vice versa) impact differently on the audience. To summarize, I believe the basic concept of Triumph is different to the basic concept of Back in Time.
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
Calling Sankey's routine a Triumph routine, in my opinion, doesn't do it a disservice at all. When people say "Triumph routine" they are speaking about the plot--cards that are mixed face up and face down right themselves at the end, which is exactly what happens with the Sankey routine.
What the Sankey routine does have is an exceptional presentation for this card plot. The standard scripting "some drunk guy shuffled cards face up into face down, etc." isn't very inspired. Yes, Sankey's presentation deals with time travel and how things end up the same way they started, but that's only a function of the presentation. The plot remains the same. So it is a Triumph routine--but it does have the best presentation I've seen that gives it a little more meaning.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Gamblor New user 24 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2017, jaschris wrote: You're not being controversial, you're just flat out wrong. It's a Triumph effect, the presentation is irrelevant to this discussion. |
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ekgdoc Regular user 110 Posts |
"The presentation is irrelevant to this discussion." Actually, presentation may be the only thing relevant to the discussion. As the OP is no neophyte, I would assume he is interested in Triumph-like routines that use a Back In Time type of presentation. But maybe I am just flat out wrong.
David M. |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2017, ekgdoc wrote: No your correct that was exactly what I was looking for 😊 |
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sgtgrey Special user Austin, TX 839 Posts |
If that is the case, I think most of us, myself included, made the incorrect assumption about what you were looking for due to how your question was asked. I think the semantics here between presentation, effect, and method/handling are important (as Steven Keyl already explained). Think of the effect (whether it is the classic triumph effect, chaos to order, ACR, etc.) as a painting, which is framed by the presentation ("going back in time" in this case). When asking for tricks similar to Sankey's, I was naturally assuming we are looking for effects or handlings of the triumph effect similar to Sankey's (hence my post on slop shuffle variations). If it is tricks with presentations centered around going back in time, there are many we could discuss, but the truth is there are countless effects you probably already know that could be framed by the premise of going back in time. Some notable routines off the top of my head that use this presentation are Cyril's Back in Time ACR, Joshua Jay's Reverse Logic (a multiphase stand up opener based on reversing time or doing a trick backwards), and Paul Cummins' The Trick that Never Happened (a time reversing card routine that includes as effects a one-phase ACR, triumph, and order to chaos - reversing all of your prior actions to back where the trick started). I know I can think of other such routines if I think about it for a moment, but this was off the top of my head.
Almost ANY triumph can be framed with the presentation of going back in time, since the effect itself is uniquely suited for this type of presentation. So if you are looking for triumph-like routines with a back in time presentation, it would seem to me you are asking for any other triumph handling or triumph-like effect. If you were specifically looking for handling similar to Sankey's effect (i.e. slop shuffle triumph handlings), that is also something different to discuss. So what exactly is it that you are looking for? |
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Jefferson New user 58 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2017, jaschris wrote: I think Sankey's Back in Time is the best presentation for triumph. But make no mistake, it is a triumph routine. If you think otherwise, ask yourself this. Would you perform Sankey's Back in Time and Vernon's Triumph in the same set. If you would, you probably wouldn't consider them two totally different effects, rather a continuation of a longer effect similar to the way Play it Straight is often used a follow up to Vernon's triumph. Back in Time and Vernon's Triumph are both Triumph routines. I agree that most Triumph routines can probably be presented as with Sankey's presentation. However, Sankey did change the way the card is revealed, which would require some handling changes in a typical Triumph routine. I personally do Joshua Jay's version (or something similar). The order of my personal triumph evolution is this: 1. Learned Sankey's with the slop shuffle and loved it 2. Discovered the Jennings-Goodwin display and instantly added it to Sankey's presentation 3. Saw Joshua Jay's version and was elated to see that one of the best feels the exact same way I do regarding the presentation and the display. To a spectator, my experience is that they don't care whether I do Sankey's or Joshua Jay's. The reason I do the extra work to perform the latter is that the Jennings-Goodwin display is so much fun, I can't leave it out. |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2017, sgtgrey wrote: Wow that has confused me haha. I was simply asking for any effects similar to either Sankeys original handling or Josh Jays handling where the card's are all mixed face up into face down and end with the deck all corrected and the original chosen card in the spectators hands....sorry for any confusion. I can see how some other effects would also suit the back in time premisethough which is also interesting 😊 |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Jefferson how does your handling differ from Josh Jay's handling ?
Like yourself I really thing the Jennings-Goodwin display really add to the effect however the straightening out procedure that Josh uses I'm not that keen on which was one of the reasons I started this thread. |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
So, since it is a triumph effect, can you do any triumph handling and achieve the same results?
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FASDIU New user 7 Posts |
There was a video clip posted here recently of Gary Kurtz performing a time travel style effect that was an excellent piece of close up theater. I don't remember the name but it was very good.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Hypothetical Possibilities. It's also in the book of his by Richard Kaufman
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furmanmatt Loyal user New York 217 Posts |
Great trick. I remember seeing Jay perform that live, slayed everyone. Here is my version-
https://youtu.be/BHr25c6t6to?list=PLYAFD......RO-39Wl7 |
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