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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts 
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It could be possible that they did genuinely get fooled. There have been quite a number of card tricks that have fooled them that had been published years before and for some reason Teller was not aware of that trick. One example was Mathieu Bich's spreadwave deck. It was a gimmicked deck many amateur magicians would have known since it was published years before and sold by magic dealer's. But it fooled them. Another example is Juan Tamariz's neither blind nor stupid which is published in his books and his lecture dvd. This was another item that many amateur magicians would have known but it fooled them. Another is John Armstrongs tiny plunger.
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Xcath1 Inner circle 3067 Posts
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It is certainly possible, again I am surprised as they have worked for years with Johnny Thompson and now Michael Close who are virtual encyclopedias of magic but you are right that as busy professionals they may not be aware of everything that is published or their initial idea of how a trick is done is not quite correct and hence they are officially fooled. At any rate for sure P&T and the producers want you to be successful and the producers make helpful suggestions ahead of time. My daughter Rachel Wax was on Penn and Teller (she did not fool them, but made them laugh) so I heard a bit about it.
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1527 Posts
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Jon Armstrong's Tiny Plunger was not a fooler. A wonderful trick and brilliantly presented by Jon, but P&T were not fooled.
Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2023, 1tepa1 wrote This has already been done - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyy-xcD4NRk Personally I don't like it. I think it could steer analytical spectators in the direction of the correct explanation. Re Neither Blind Nor Stupid - wasn't the version on Fool Us somewhat different from the standard version? Also, I believe the rules of Fool Us are that P&T only get one guess. The performer led them down the wrong path. He appeared to peek at a card, so they guessed he used a key card, if I remember correctly. That meant he "fooled" them, according to the rules of the show. |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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The neither blind nor stupid on fool us if I recall had a different selection process, which imo there is no reason to do because it was weaker than having a spectators cut and take out cards. It feels like that selection process was specifically used to make a magician think another method was used. A dribble and say stop was used to get the cards selected. If I recall he didn't have the cards even cut before having the cards selected. So Pen and Teller guessed dribble force.
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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I remember in the first season there was another instance where I felt the people won on a technicality. In one trick there was a moment where it looked like deck switch was used, the deck went out of view for a moment and it had just been shuffled by the spectator. Then many cards were divined from the deck by the performer. Penn and Teller quessed deck switch which did not happen. The one guess rule had not yet been implemented and I was shouting at them to guess that cards were added to the top of the deck instead of the entire deck switched.
On another oddity, according to Michael Vincent, he should have won the trophy but he did not correct the wrong guess made by Pen and Teller. During one of his two appearances he had the ending for his routine where the deck went back to new deck order and Pen and Teller quessed a deck switch had happened somewhere along the routine but in reality no deck switch took place, all the previous routines before the big finish at the end were carefully created so they would allow the ending to take place without needing to switch the cards. Previously during another performance Penn and Teller also had given a wrong guess and the performer similar to Michael had not called them out on it. Penn and Teller later realized their mistake and invited the person back and gave them the trophy. I don't know why they have not invited Michael Vincent back and given him the same treatment. |
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1527 Posts
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Well, David Parr's 'Copycat' did fool P&T and that's all that matters for this topic because it is about Copycat.
Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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Christian de Punto.jpg "View Profile") Regular user Germany 174 Posts
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Depends on the skills of the spectator for mixing the cards...
if they drop some cards could be a disaster ;-) Quote:
On Jul 31, 2023, 1tepa1 wrote: |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2023, Christian de Punto wrote: True but also you can change the mixing procedure to almost completely eliminate the possibility. For example don't let the pick the deck up from the table and hold it in their hands. Have them givw cuts on the table instead. |
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1527 Posts
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I feel using blank decks would spoil the effect. A powerful part of the effect is that both decks are shown to be "normal" and substituting blank decks could suggest that gimmicked decks are being used.
Further, I don't feel a kicker is needed. The reveal of the matching cards is kicker enough because everything looks so fair and aboveboard. Just my two cents. My bell arrived, it is perfect. I looked at other options on eBay and Amazon (buzzers, ahooga horns, etc.) but I feel David's instincts to use the bell was the right call. And, since I gave some money to David to learn his handling (with pleasure), I do not feel using a bell is inappropriate. Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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Christian de Punto Regular user Germany 174 Posts
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Totally agree with you mark.
compared "copy cat" today, for myself, with "choice", and by entertainment factor and by strengths of the effect copycat, for me, is evident in front. Quote:
On Aug 1, 2023, Magic Mark wrote: |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1174 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2023, Christian de Punto wrote: I was confused by this at first. You are referring to if the decks were blanks, right? |
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Martello Loyal user Catskill Mountains 280 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2023, Christian de Punto wrote: |
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Martello Loyal user Catskill Mountains 280 Posts
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Just got this and totally agree about the blank deck. That would be a true mistake. Also the review my magic orthodoxy is simply untrue. This is not a rehash of "Do as I do". If you read Scarne's work on this, it is totally different. David Parr is truly an originator despite the fact that it is more than 4 years old. This effect works as it is and simply love it.
Arthur |
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videoman Inner circle 6750 Posts
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FYI, for those who could use some portability with this effect, there is a nice Service Bell app available at the App Store. I’m sure Android has similar versions.
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David Parr V.I.P. 898 Posts
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Big thanks to everyone who has recently discovered Copycat and returned it to the top ten on Penguin Magic!
Mark, Martello — I agree with your assessment. Adding unnecessary handling and multiple reveals would muddy the waters. The strength of the effect, beyond the theatricality of the back-and-forth game, is in how fair and straightforward everything appears to be. |
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David Parr V.I.P. 898 Posts
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PS. For folks who said they were looking forward to finding out what I’m releasing next, check out my web store for new stuff:
https://ko-fi.com/davidparr/shop |
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1527 Posts
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Just got home from Ring 76's monthly meeting. It was a performance night for members, the theme was "Spooky Magic". I've been dying to perform Copycat for the Ring and I decided to add some comical spookiness to the routine by:
- Using one deck of Bicycle? Zombie Riders and one deck of Bicycle? Monsters playing cards. - Used an electronic push button that emitted a scream when pressed (instead of a bell). - Added a pair of skeleton hand/arm to use as "magic wands" and for pressing the button. - Played some spooky background music. The routine went over very well. Lots of laughs. I received multiple compliments from fellow members (about 40 in attendance). Here's some photos by Magic Doc Jeff Pearson. His wife, Laurie, was my assistant. She was hilariously fun!       We had 12 members perform tonight, it was a terrific evening! Thank you, David Parr, for sharing this fabulous routine with the magic community! Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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Xcath1 Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Looks like a fun performance. Congratulations
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David Parr V.I.P. 898 Posts
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Glad you had fun with it, Mark!
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Posted: Jul 31, 2023 06:10 pm 
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