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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2005 11:29pm
After reading the thin model thread, I thought I would bring up the cousin of that illusion, the Blade Box. The Owen's catalogue mentions that Selbit invented it,but I would like to see if someone can back that up or put forth other origins. My historian friend Al Stencell has found a mention of a "chinese torture box" in a sideshow back in the 1880s. It's not clear if this was a Blade Box. Burling Hull put out plans for it, but is he the father of this thing? So, where did it come from?
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17795 Posts
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Posted: Mar 10, 2005 12:08am
Good question, Todd... I know it is a great routine, having seen Marshall Brodien do it as well as someone years ago at a side show.
Maybe Jay or Aye Jaye knows. Will see Aye Jaye next week.
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 10, 2005 12:43pm
Thanks Pete. Jay gave me his Blade Box. It's the box Marshall gave him and it was built by Dip Loo. I don't think Aye Jaye will know. He's not sure where he was last week, let alone the history of this sideshow ding. I will have to check out the book on Burling Hull and see if it has any clues. By the way, the Hull plans are the same as the Abbott's plans. I wonder which came first?
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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hugmagic
Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: Mar 10, 2005 10:41pm
I would guess the Hull plans came first but I would have to check the copyright on the book to see. But Hull was known to borrow freely from everyone.
I remember seeing Marshall Brodien working a trade show in the late 1960's (along with Mark Wilson, George Johnstone and a ton of other magicians.), I started to go onto the stage to look into the box. I was a dumb 12 year and didn't' know any better. I remember Marshall handling it with "That's alright kid..I work alone.)
Later when Jay and George Johnstone borrowed a box from a kid in the contest, than ran it at the Lions Matinee at Abbott's. Jay did the whole routine including the ding. The guy from Lions club almost fell over in disbelief as the dollars rolled in.
I think the "chinese torture box" as like the old cane cabinent.
I just had a thought that maybe it is in the Goldston books. I will have to give look tomorrow.
Did you know that my mentor, Horace Marshall, once worked in the circus as a contortonist? His grandfather (the first Horace Marshall) was a vaudeville juggler and his dad was a vaudeville magician.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 11, 2005 10:55am
Thanks Richard. The problem with tracking down the truth in the sideshow is that there is not much in the way of a paper trail. No programs and few newspaper articles. The press that is to be found is in theatrical papers and that is based upon what showmen stated. All of that is suspect. Still, I try to find out where the stuff I do has come from.
I've just spent a loooong time piecing together Al Flosso's Punch & Judy routine and the swazzle pitch he did at the Dreamland Sideshow in Coney Island back in 1915. I worked backwards from people that were "influenced" by Al's work (that is they stole bits and pieces) and then patched together what I found with contemporary accounts of Al's performance.
Several years ago I worked up his Aerial Treasury routine and polished it up by working it for a weekend at the sideshow in Coney Island. I was doing it one block and 85 years away from where Al did it. I liked the feel of that.
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23793 Posts
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Posted: Mar 11, 2005 2:14pm
Here is some info about the Burling Hull book. I met Burling Hull in 1980 when I was on my way back home from the Largo Renaissance Festival. I stopped at his house and spent a couple of hours with him discussing magic and shows, etc. He was a delightful, funny, well-informed man. If I'd had a week to stay in DeLand, I would have done it. I actually got him to sign an autograph on a playing card for me. It wasn't easy, because he was almost totally blind, but he was glad to do it. It may have been the last autograph he ever signed.
Anyway, he wanted to sell me a copy of his big illusion book, but I couldn't afford it. I wish I'd bought it. He said that some of the plans in there were old Thayer plans that he had put in because he thought the copyrights had expired. Owen claimed that they owned the Thayer plans. That was the reason that there was such a battle over the book.
Maybe this clue will help.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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hugmagic
Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: Mar 11, 2005 10:07pm
Todd, I understand the problem with the accuracy of the press since they only usually (at least at that time) printed what they were told.
I will try to get into my files to see if I have any clues anywhere.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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Marshall Thornside
Inner circle
chicago
2019 Posts
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Posted: Mar 16, 2005 9:18am
Quote:
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On 2005-03-10 12:43, Todd Robbins wrote:
Thanks Pete. Jay gave me his Blade Box. It's the box Marshall gave him and it was built by Dip Loo. I don't think Aye Jaye will know. He's not sure where he was last week, let alone the history of this sideshow ding. I will have to check out the book on Burling Hull and see if it has any clues. By the way, the Hull plans are the same as the Abbott's plans. I wonder which came first?
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You know my dad (DeYip) would probably know.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista
7th greatest pianist in the world
Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador
www.mai-ling.net
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 18, 2005 8:52pm
Yes, Marshall, he would know a lot about the subject. He built the box I use! It's a beautiful thing and has been very profitable. I hope your Dad is doing well. I'd love to meet him one day.
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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Marshall Thornside
Inner circle
chicago
2019 Posts
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Posted: Mar 20, 2005 2:51pm
I'm sure you WILL meet him.
He's the same guy as everyone
has known.
Still funny.
Still Chinese.
:)
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista
7th greatest pianist in the world
Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador
www.mai-ling.net
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17795 Posts
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Posted: Mar 20, 2005 4:01pm
I was really thrilled when Magic Magazine did the story on Chinese Louie... great guy, terrific craftsman and a good friend I have not seen for too long.
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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hugmagic
Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: Mar 20, 2005 10:19pm
Louie...China's answer to Don Rickles. You would not believe what he can make out a trash compacter.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 21, 2005 8:55am
Quote:
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On 2005-03-20 22:19, hugmagic wrote:
You would not believe what he can make out a trash compacter.
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I guess this bring new meaning to the old phrase, "packs small, plays big."
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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hugmagic
Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: Mar 21, 2005 9:07am
I left out the word "of". Actually, he made a levitation.
Louie is still the only guy I ever seen do the Kuma Tubes though Owen's still sells a bunch of them.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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MagicbyCarlo
Inner circle
has squandered his time making
1063 Posts
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Posted: Mar 22, 2005 6:31am
This is one of the reasons I love this board! It's fantastic to learn the intricate and sometimes sorted histories of effects and amazing to see how old effects can return to life and become new again!
Carlo DeBlasio
Entertainment specialist
and all around fun guy!
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17795 Posts
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Posted: Mar 23, 2005 8:56pm
Of course you realize we all LIE... 
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23793 Posts
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Posted: Mar 24, 2005 12:34am
Quote:
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On 2005-03-20 14:51, Marshall Thornside wrote:
I'm sure you WILL meet him.
He's the same guy as everyone
has known.
Still funny.
Still Chinese.
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Louie cracked me up when he worked the TAOM. Sure, some of the lines were a little corny, but they were also charming. I will never forget when he said, absolutely straight-faced, "Fu Manchu...Many Man Smoke."
And there he was, wearing those beautiful Chinese robes...and cowboy boots. I LOVED it!!!! I have to admit, cowboy boots did not really seem out of place to me. I'm a native Texan. We wear boots everywhere -- church, formal occasions, baptisms, Bar Mitzvahs.
And I, too, was truly pleased to see what a master can do with the Kuma tubes. I had always considered this a rather silly production. He made it look like real magic.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 25, 2005 4:24pm
Aye Jaye just called from the Castle Friday Lunch. He wanted to know if I knew who invented the Blade Box! Round and round it goes, where it stops...
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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hugmagic
Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: Mar 25, 2005 9:55pm
What day is it?
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17795 Posts
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Posted: Mar 26, 2005 6:56pm
Todd: Funny, at the Castle lunch, Friday, I asked Aye Jaye "Who invented the Blade Box?" He thought Burling Hull was near the top of the list... so he calls you! Hah...
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Todd Robbins
V.I.P.
New York
2688 Posts
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Posted: Mar 28, 2005 12:31am
I mentioned Burling Hull to him.
Todd Robbins
www.toddrobbins.com
www.playdeadnyc.com
http://coneyislandtodd.blogspot.com/
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Marshall Thornside
Inner circle
chicago
2019 Posts
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Posted: Mar 30, 2005 1:49pm
Quote:
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On 2005-03-24 00:34, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-03-20 14:51, Marshall Thornside wrote:
I'm sure you WILL meet him.
He's the same guy as everyone
has known.
Still funny.
Still Chinese.
:)
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|
Louie cracked me up when he worked the TAOM. Sure, some of the lines were a little
corny, but they were also charming. I will never forget when he said, absolutely straight-faced, "Fu Manchu...Many Man Smoke."
And there he was, wearing those beautiful Chinese robes...and cowboy boots. I LOVED it!!!! I have to admit, cowboy boots did not really seem out of place to me. I'm a native Texan. We wear boots everywhere -- church, formal occasions, baptisms, Bar Mitzvahs.
And I, too, was truly pleased to see what a master can do with the Kuma tubes. I had always considered this a rather silly production. He made it look like real magic.
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I've heard nothing but how my dad did the kumas the best. Better than Kuma.
I asked him about the bowl and where he got it etc etc. Interesting story.
Its such a beautiful piece of art.
I asked my dad about the cowboy boots. I couldn't believe it. Him wearing
cowboy boots since he only rode a horse once and never again. He said they were
Zaney Blaney's boots. My dad, the constant character. And still is!
Like pulling the fish out of the cowboy hat in his chinese robe and hat.
That's the photo that sits with the roundtable collection. Because of
the fish he caught Joe Brooks wrote an article about him in the
October '64 Field & Stream.Since he was one of the few Asian sportsman.
I asked my dad about the Blade Box said that you can find more information
in one of the old Linking Ring magazines. Appearantly it had the plans and
some info about it in there. Not sure how far back you'll have to archive.
By the way how is AJ? The last time we saw him was when he was living in
Wisconsin still and he came up to us when we were working the state fair.
And he made a joke about a chinese magician he knew way back then and that
he had to be about 98 years old. My dad was so funny, he literally kicked
AJ in the ass. Seriously with his shiny black pointy dress shoes.
It was all in fun.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista
7th greatest pianist in the world
Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador
www.mai-ling.net
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17795 Posts
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Posted: Mar 30, 2005 10:49pm
Aye Jaye is doing fine... he's here in Los Angeles now, and one of the "regular" Friday Lunch gang... and other times too.
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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