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mark2004 Loyal user UK 215 Posts |
I'm trying to figure out how someone like me can fit in to the magic community, or whether I don't fit.
I love magic and have done so since I first saw the likes of David Nixon on TV when I was growing up (more decades ago than I care to be precise about). But I'm really not a performer because (a) I'm a fairly quiet type who is about as far from a natural stage star as you can get and (b) I have a congenital lack of dexterity and co-ordination that means I'll never be much good at sleight of hand. However I'm fascinated by the history of magic and also by the technical business of designing illusions. I collect books, articles and videos relating to these subjects and I love discussing the topics with people who understand them. As a non-performer I sometimes feel that I'm not welcome in parts of the magic community. A lot of magic clubs seem to require their members to audition or to be working performers. My question is are there any clubs or societies that welcome non-performers? (I should add that I live in the UK) I also have a secondary question along the lines of - Do performers here have a problem with a non-performer who is interested in studying the technical side of magic? Does discussing methods with a non-performer feel too much like disclosure even though I'm only one person and I'm not publicizing secrets? Mark |
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PhatDad New user 91 Posts |
I have a similar issue. I buy the books and videos etc, I just don't get time to practice so really don't fancy cobbling together some shoddy act to perform for membership. Shouldn't the fact I have shelves of books and a draw of unused magic be enough or do I have to wait until the kids are grown up and I have retired. But then the arthritis will have set in and I'll still not be able to perform.
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Clarioneer Special user Ferndown, Dorset, UK 624 Posts |
If your local clubs require you to audition to become any kind of member that surprises me - I believe the magic castle has different levels some of which don't require an audition. However, why not buy a couple of self working tricks - add your own unique patter, practise and give it a bash - you might actually enjoy it, if you have a physical disability I would be astonished if they didn't take this into account...
As for this forum - it doesn't matter whether you perform for a living or not - and the facts and experience up here probably outway any club 10 fold Disclosure is another question altogether - and there are rules/sticky messages about this posted by the Café's forum police (moderators) .... don't think this is any different in the secret section - the same rules still apply there too... BTW - welcome aboard
catch you later
Clarioneer |
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PhatDad New user 91 Posts |
Maybe we should start our own club Mark.
International Brotherhood of Non-Performers |
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okito25 Regular user Victoria BC Canada 145 Posts |
I know of a couple of friends who are Non performers (they know a little magic) in our local club. With all due respect to magic enthusiasts, it is fine having them come out to meetings , and socializing , and I like them very much, however it seems that it wears thin when we share our feelings, entertain them , share our ideas, but get nothing in return. It would be nice to have an exchange of ideas, help with club functions, or even help cleaning up at the end of the night.
In another club I know they have a few "non performers" who are very interactive in the club itself making it what it is. They help with newsletters , reporting, stage hands , fundraisers , etc. I guess what I am trying to get at is sure I encourage people to want to perform ,and I don’t push the issue , however if you are going to be involved in your local club in a non performing status be prepared to offer something else. One thing that bothers me is that I like to make everyone feel included, but not necessarily having to explain every thing all the time or defining tech terms , knowing that they will say Oh yeah, cool and not go any farther than that. Sometimes I feel like I am being stand offish when they ask a question and I say “Umm don't worry about it , just a technical term that really won’t mean anything” and they get that look like they have been snubbed. It just makes it uneasy for me. As for not being able to find time to practice, we have a budding doctor in my circle of peers. He’s an intern so you can imagine what his schedule is like. He started magic only a year ago and already he knows Card Warp and Immaculet connection plus a half dozen self working card tricks. They are so finely tuned you could watch them all the time. He just finds himself a half hour a day to practice. He’s very structured and disciplined in is study which may be the key. Hope this helps and please, this is not an attack on non performers. Just my opinion. Keet |
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PhatDad New user 91 Posts |
I went to a charity show a few years ago organised by a magic guild. It was a competition between I believe budding new magicians who had not performed on stage before.
It was shocking, truly shocking. There were six acts, 1 act was entertaining, funny and a great magician who included the audience in his act, 2nd act was entertaining, funny, a great magician but was very nervous. No problems in that everyone gets nervous. Then there were the next three acts. Really shocking. No real patter, not really entertaining. Some were nervous and some didn't appear nervous. Not very entertaining at all. The last one however had spent loads of money on apperatus and spent his alloted time dressed as a 'chinaman' not a regular modern day chinese person but an actual stereotypical 'chinaman', pulling umbrellas out of everything and anything. He by the way won the competition. In my mind he didn't' really do magic he just used contraptions that allowed him to fill the stage full of small umbrellas. I was embarressed by some of the acts and personally don't want to perform until I am of the same level of the first performer. I don't want to audition and show my lack of skills and patter. I have the knowledge just not the skills... although I would rate myself better than some of those I saw in that show I still don't think I'm good enough to perform. I think a lot of 'magicians' should be realistic about their skill too. I've seen many magicians tip alsorts of magic in their acts because they just haven't perfected the basics. They've gone out after an hours practise and ruined a reasonably good effect. I don't want to be like that. |
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okito25 Regular user Victoria BC Canada 145 Posts |
Point well noted, and I have seen similar results, in the "charity class competitions" to a point where I support the charity with a financle donation , and help out behind the scenes , I do not compete , just do not have the edge , for the time I could spend building up a competitve act, I could be letting My bread and butter shows go by the wayside. I admire the competitions and make that a highlight of the convention scene however I think that if I was to compete it could take away my sheer love of performing , Phatdad I would not worry about the audition process too much , at the club level it will show them you are willing and eager, the Patter and Flair only comes from repeated performance , My "act" is so routined , it looks adlib , Your club is there to support and Help and they will , funny how it is when we have some of our "pros" come to a meeting and simply because they are amongst thier peers . it is time that they blow a double, or everything in a T Nelson Downs , crashes all over the place, event Last meeting I do a self working card trick .. Just Think .. By schindler and garcia , Look It up its a killer , could not get that to work after three attempts .. I have No clue what went wrong , popped into the all night convienience store did it for the clerk ,,, No problem , I think the IBM was built on Murphys Law
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
Non-performers are definitely part of the magic community. For instance, if you look at the IBM, they actually have categories for members who do not perform. Our magic goes back for centuries and without avid historians, we would be completely lost. There are also many inventors and designers who have vivid imagination and skill, but do not perform. So, yes, if you have a sincere interest in magic that goes beyond that of a mere spectator, you are an integral part of the magic community.
If there is an "audition" in your local club, don't be put off by it. Most auditions are simply designed to ensure that you are more than just a spectator seeking the disclosure of how various tricks are done. Simply pick a topic that you are familiar with and that you have thoroughly researched and present a lecture on that topic. That will establish your sincerity and bring a fresh perspective into the club. I actually wish clubs these days had more historians and theoretical writers among them. Too many people attend these meetings simply wanting to learn the latest card move, without an appreciation of the history of our art, or the showmanship skils required to sell it. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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PhatDad New user 91 Posts |
Okito, I have searched for Just think and can only find Adrian Sullivan's Just Think at Hank Lee's. Is this the same effect or different?
I've seen it mentioned on here before but never found it. |
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Clarioneer Special user Ferndown, Dorset, UK 624 Posts |
That, as you describe was a stage magic competition - not a close-up audition - something quite quite different. For me a few coins and a couple of elastic bands and away I'd go with some original fluid routines/patter... nice and simple and not a difficult sleight in sight
catch you later
Clarioneer |
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
Non performer does not necessarily imply unknowledgeable about magic. You may find your interest lies in research, history, collecting or any other valid branch of the art. You will find yours, in the meantime I do not begrudge anyone with a sincere interest nor would I tell them they would not be welcomed here on what is essentially a public forum.
Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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PhatDad New user 91 Posts |
Yeah I understand the differences but I would rather perform/audition after I have joined a club and have taken on board the advice and tips given by the folks in the club rather than when I've never performed for anyone else. It's like taking a driving test when all you have done is drive a car around a field rather than taking profesional lessons. I'd rather not crash and burn in front of people before I've got to know them.
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Jim Short Regular user 142 Posts |
The club I used to attend had a performance requirement. *However*...they were very liberal in how they defined "performance." It could be, of course, a series of magic effects, but it could also be a book review, a history of an interesting prop, a treatise on a little-known performer...the possibilities were endless.
There are those who think only performing magicians belong in magic organizations. I think that is a limiting and self-defeating view. I think non-performing contributors can and do perform vital functions in many magic organizations. And I know many others who share my views. That being said, don't limit yourself. A congenital lack of dexterity is not necessarily a hindrance to becoming a performer. When I was bemoaning my own lack of skill on this very forum someone shared a story of a formerly dextrous performer who had a stroke and lost much of his fine motor skills. His solution was to rethink what he did and do things that required preparation and subterfuge rather than sleights. The results, I am told, fooled knowledgeable magicians. Jim
Was that meant to be edible?
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Jaxon Inner circle Kalamazoo, Mi. 2537 Posts |
At one my of local magic clubs they elected me to be vice president a couple of times. Both times I mentioned the fact that I don't think I would be a good VP. At least at the time I wouldn't because I didn't have enough time to put into it and I felt that wouldn't be fair to other members. I mean I'd hope someone in that status would have the time and means to make the clubs the best it could be.
Anyway, to get to the point. They elected me because there where only a couple of us in the club at that time who where working professionals so they felt we'd be the best president and VP. I don't think that's true at all. A good board member doesn't need to be a good performer. They just need to love the art and be willing to do their best for the other members. So I don't think one has to be a performer to be a good and beneficial brother of the magic fellowship that matters. Another memory that comes to mind happened at another magic club. This club is in a town that's quite a drive for me so I only make it there once or twice a year. But at one banquet meeting a member was voted "Magicians of the year" of that ring. Again, he was one of the few working professionals they had. He thanked them for the honor but then he declined it and said that there was another member who deserves the honor much more then he did. So he passed on the award to a man who was really never much of a performer but for years (Probably a better part of 40 years of his life) he put so much heart and soul into magic and fellow magicians. he's always helpful, friendly and a joy to be around. He loves magic. His house is filled with posters, books and props that's he's collected. he may not be able to do many advanced sleights and when he performs you won't be to amazed. But you'll definitely like the guy. So my point is if you love magic. Are a good friendly person and like spending time with other magicians then there's definitely a place for you with us performers. On the issue of a non-performer studying magic. There are plenty of magic historians out there who don't perform but are fasinated by the methods and props magicians use. I see nothing wrong with that because if someone studies magic then they understand the importance of concealing the methods from spectators. They'd understand that if they knew the methods then they wouldn't enjoy the shows. Ron Jaxon |
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Mustang Veteran user London, England 316 Posts |
Where in the UK you from? Nothin wrong with enjoyin the history, nor doin magic for yourself as a vice or relaxation, just simply don't telegraph it as a hobby or as something you do, or you will be expected to perform... it's a performance art!
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
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calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
In my opinion to fit into the magic community one doesn't need to be a performer. You can have valuable wisdom to share simply from reading books and looking at effects.
Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
I performed for many years, but then got tired of it and started doing magic just to entertain myself. Nothing wrong with that. I often work for hours on some effect, just to see what I can do with it, how I can change it, how I can make it better, or how I might make an even different effect out of it. Performing is fun, when you want to do it. I mostly just entertain the occassional waitress, check out clerk, etc. these days. Getting up and doing shows again just isn't where I'm at. I belong to a magic club, most would like you to do a trick once in a while, not to amaze anyone, just for fun, but I've never belonged to one other than the Magic Castle that "required" you to perform. Magic as a place for just about anyone with any interest. There are magic collectors, illusion designer and builders, magic history buffs, and so on. A good friend of mine, fellow clergyman, and staff member of the forum is a great "one armed magician" who isn't interested in performing either, but he sure loves magic, and is very skilled at it. So ignore those who think you should be up on stage, and enjoy.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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okito25 Regular user Victoria BC Canada 145 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-10 09:54, PhatDad wrote: Ok .. I believe it is in the book .. Magic with Cards .. By George Schindeler, and Frank Garcia |
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mark2004 Loyal user UK 215 Posts |
Thanks everyone, your responses have been very encouraging. I feel hopeful that I'll find a way to pursue my interest as a historian and enthusiastic watcher of magic.
Mark |
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jack_is_dead Regular user japan 173 Posts |
Your always welcome to the magic Café community buddy!
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
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