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DerekMerdinyan
Inner circle
Seattle, Washington
1031 Posts
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Posted: Sep 4, 2005 7:27pm
Penguinmagic has a new gimmick (I believe...) that is used for vanishing objects. It comes in the form of a ring... Could I get a review and possibly a picture. I really hope they aren't rings with magnets on them...
Derek Merdinyan
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VcosNJ
Inner circle
1180 Posts
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Posted: Sep 14, 2005 8:58pm
It looks like this one's up on Hocus-pocus. They've got a demo as well. Looks like you were right with your assessment. 
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tophatter
Inner circle
connecticut
1339 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 3:48am
Sorry this one does nothing for me at least with the raven the vanish Is done. After the vanish he keeps touching his waist line still moving his hands & the coin Is already gone . Looks weird.... watch the video I think you will agree.
tophatter.
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magicman1
Inner circle
1171 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 7:13am
I agree..
That motion AFTER the vanish is very weird..
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cupmagic
Loyal user
249 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 8:12am
Try something else....hmm..perhaps Vanish in the air is better than this.
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Xiqual
Inner circle
Upper left quadrant
3791 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 9:33am
The way he kind of bows and touches his waist then does that washing hand motion looks really creepy. I will pass on this.
James
Still with the Chinese circus 
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jfkkraemer
Elite user
SoCal
481 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 1:12pm
It sure does look like an awful lot of extra handwork for absolutely no good reason, think their are a lot of other methods to accomplish the same effect that look cleaner. Just my 2cents.
Jeff K
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Logan
Inner circle
2245 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 2:10pm
Guys,
don't you think we're being a little too harsh?
Come on, we KNOW it's the ring. The bloody ring is printed on the DVD! Our magical eyeballs are watching the hand with the ring, of course we see the ditch!
But I doubt that makes it a bad or weak effect.
Can you honestly say that the spectators will watch the hand with the ring as intently as we have? They don't even know what to look for in the 1st place!
Notice how the spectators are just standing in shock that the coin is gone, just staring at their hand? How much more misdirection do you need to ditch the coin? And it's not like you have to shovel your hand into the pocket, it's just a tap, and you're done, or so it seems from the video anyways. The dude in the video made a lot of large movements to cover something so small, personally I think that could be improved.
There'll always be a ditch, it ain't real magic, but it's close 
I may not get this, but I think it's clever. Eventhough the ditching is obvious to us, I doubt it will be to spectators, furthermore it seems more practical than the Raven.
Pros and cons guys, pros and cons.
Smooth Criminal Magic
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
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Jessiah
Inner circle
J E S S E S M A G I C
1062 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 2:38pm
The ditch doesn't look so good... Going to the waist like that over and over... I was thinking that the ring could rotate, so that if a coin was stuck to it, and the hand was opened, it would be at the back, and if you turn your hand around, it would rotate into the palm. At least that was an idea I had a while ago... never made anything though. I was REALLY excited when I saw this on Hanks... but not excited at all when I saw the demo 
I don't think the spectators will ever notice that you go to your waist, none of them did in the demo... And I REALLY like the look of using the R hand to scoop the coin off, into the L hand fist. This would be KILLER with a raven! Im going to try it out! If I bought this trick, I would solely use that scoop move... I really like the thinking behind that.
I guess if the raven hook up isn't your thing, than this is the best alternative. NO one would be suspicious of your R hand if your using it to "put" the coin in the L so openly. No angles, nothing... its logical! and then you have all the time in the world to go to your R pocket and ditch. I love that!
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 2:43pm
I was also thinking about a really cool handling for subterfuge...
The R hand places a coin into your L open palm. The L hand shows it around a little. The R hand waves over it a couple of times, but nothing happens. The R hand fingers take hold of the L's, and slowly closes the L fingers into a fist around the coin. In this action, the R ring can contact the coin when the L fingers are blocking the view for a second. Then the L hand is extended. The R ditches, and comes back to view. The L is then shown empty, and so is the R. Now I want to get one to try it out!
http://www.jessesmagic.com
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Jeff Haas
Special user
764 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 6:11pm
Actually, the vanish where he apparently sweeps the coin off into his other hand, while the ring retains it, and then the hand with the ring rests on his hip (ditching the coin) looks pretty good. Much less hand-waving.
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MagicMaker
Loyal user
210 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 10:31pm
I think the vanish I created a year or so ago is much cleaner and much more visual than this. You can watch it at magicvideodepot.com. A while ago I debuted the vanish here at magiccafe but never got around to maybe releasing the method even though I had many people ask me to do so.
Watch it here: (if the link doesn't work just search for 'coincealment')
http://magicvideodepot.com/view.php?a=v&t=1002
I have to say I love this trick to death and it's very simple but I'm afraid to divuldge the secret for now. There is more importance in the handling than the actual method of course. It's the only trick I have invented that actually amazes me when I watch the video. I did this in front of the only guy who knows the secret and he sees exaclty what you see in the demo, a truely instataneous vanish of a real coin with no cover whatsoever.
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still_ill
Loyal user
florida
201 Posts
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Posted: Sep 15, 2005 10:52pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-15 14:43, Jessiah wrote:
I was also thinking about a really cool handling for subterfuge...
The R hand places a coin into your L open palm. The L hand shows it around a little. The R hand waves over it a couple of times, but nothing happens. The R hand fingers take hold of the L's, and slowly closes the L fingers into a fist around the coin. In this action, the R ring can contact the coin when the L fingers are blocking the view for a second. Then the L hand is extended. The R ditches, and comes back to view. The L is then shown empty, and so is the R. Now I want to get one to try it out!
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I like that idea a lot
I'm still not too sure about this one though...and I never ever wear rings normaly
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smacks183
Loyal user
206 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 1:48am
Magic maker- I think I have an idea of how the vanish was done (bl#@# #rt), but, nonetheless, looked great!!!- I would defintely pick this up if you released it.
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magicinsight
Inner circle
2401 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 11:19am
That was a nice vanish, Magicmaker. However, this ring would allow you to vanish a coin from the spectator's hand. With a little further thought on handling, this vanish can be cleaner than raven with no setup. I wonder if the ring is strong enough to do the matrix routine that is done with Mastering. Subterfuge is a lot cheaper than Mastering.
Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
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Jessiah
Inner circle
J E S S E S M A G I C
1062 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 11:23am
I have no idea how you did that Magicmaker... Nice one man!!! if you ever want to market this effect, I would help you any way you need! Plus, my site will be up soon, and maybe you can debut it there? Keep em' coming man, great work!
I was also thinking that you could have a coin hiden in the other hand, and then sometimes when you make the coin vanish from one hand, it appears in the other. That would fix any issues with using the same hand. PM me if you wanna discuss anything. Later
Michael is right, its a diferent effect when you do it in there hand... AND I LOVE THE IDEA OF THE MATRIX!!! great thinking man!
Posted: Sep 16, 2005 11:24am
Also, has anyone asked if the coin makes noise when it hits the ring? hmm... maybe the fingers can be curled around a little and stop the coin... if the mag is strong enough. I wanna play with one!
http://www.jessesmagic.com
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Mark Storms
Veteran user
Seattle, WA
335 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 2:50pm
YOu would think that the ring does make noise. There are so many questions I would have before I get one. Like you Jessiah, I would really like to try it for a week before I buy it. I agree that the demo video had some really unmagical movements involved in it. Hopefully there is room for improvment. I know a topit would fix this right up.
Find out what you cannot do.., Then go and do it!
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MagicMaker
Loyal user
210 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 3:08pm
Jessiah funny you mentioned it I was already considering maybe talking with you about this effect. The reason is because I have been reading all the posts about your effects and can appreciate your creativity and marketing skills.
I believe trying to do everything by myself in futile.
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haywire
Special user
Philadelphia
760 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 3:28pm
My only concern also is CLICKING noise.
Topit also is a good idea.
I can ditch the coin in a topit much better looking than whatever the guy in the demo is doing...
They made this method a bit too obvious for us...
I have a feeling I may be going to get some rare earth magnets this weekend...
While working in a magic shop the owner related to me that if its priced lesser
than the aggravation of making it yourself, most people will just buy it.
I think it IS worth the aggravation to make it.
I think 45.00$ is too much for what you probably get, but perhaps that's just me.
I am also very picky about what jewelery I choose to wear. If I made my own,
it would be in whatever ring I chose.
I certainly like the idea, and the device could be used for a lot more than just coin vanishing...(watch stopping,chop cup,and much more I think, depends on the strength of the uhhh magic stuff)
Its really NOT all done with smoke and mirrors, its smoke and m******!
Steven
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Mark Storms
Veteran user
Seattle, WA
335 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 5:38pm
After watching the demo video again I don't think that the ditch is such an issue anymore. Granted he could do it in a much less jerky fashon. Thing is that you have some time to ditch so why not take your time. Im not quite sure where its being ditched to. The pocket would be a bit too hard.
Find out what you cannot do.., Then go and do it!
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DerekMerdinyan
Inner circle
Seattle, Washington
1031 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 6:39pm
The vanish itself looks good and I noticed the ditch every time. It is not something I will invest in. If you did this table hopping, being at table level may help hide the ditch.
Speaking of the ditch, that was a very fast and clean ditch consitering the circumstances.
Derek Merdinyan
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magiclee
Special user
542 Posts
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Posted: Sep 16, 2005 6:42pm
Perhaps "Black Art" might have something to do with it. My guess is the coin has black material one one side, and he turns the coin over so it sticks to a magnet under his clothing.
magiclee
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Platt
Inner circle
New York
1687 Posts
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Posted: Sep 17, 2005 1:47pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-16 18:42, magiclee wrote:
Perhaps "Black Art" might have something to do with it. My guess is the coin has black material one one side, and he turns the coin over so it sticks to a magnet under his clothing.
magiclee
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That's great. But I don't think anyone was asking for speculation on how the vanish was done. It looks great.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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magicalwishes
Regular user
Hickory, NC
142 Posts
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Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:50am
HAYWIRE!
It is not the principle of price, it is the simple fact you are willing to go make it so you appearently like the idea. However you are willing to cheat the man who thought of it first in order to achieve the same method and effect? Ethics are so low in the magic community it stinks.
See ya real soon!
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jonnygold
New user
Germany
50 Posts
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Posted: Sep 19, 2005 9:27am
I am very happy with my raven, but is there anybody who have both?
Which one do you use?
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mattisdx
Inner circle
1614 Posts
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Posted: Sep 19, 2005 11:42am
You could always do the vanish and then moonwalk just like Michael Jackson! That would actually look pretty darn cool.
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haywire
Special user
Philadelphia
760 Posts
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Posted: Sep 19, 2005 4:36pm
Attacking my ethics is interesting, considering all the gentlemen who is selling this effect is doing is selling a cheap 1$ metal ring with a .35 cent magnet in it for 45$ (Gotta love the margins in the magic business)
I have purchased thousands in effects, supplies and props. If I like the idea but not the look or feel or the prop, Yes I will make my own.
I have my own design of a device similar to a raven too,it just works better for me than their version. Oh what a heretic I must be.
I'm sure magnetic rings (and this use of one) have been around for quite awhile....
Steven
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hackmonkey
Special user
England
813 Posts
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Posted: Sep 20, 2005 7:27am
I have used magnets on my belt to ditch coins many times. But not right near my crotch like that guy, more to the hip!! I wouldn't have a go at Haywire, I would have a go at the guy marketing an idea. I think many of us have had this idea but not marketed it because were sure someone has already done it. I mean this 'aint revolutionry and could be done better IMHO.
Joe
Look behind you...on your left...thats the real world.
http://www.youtube.com/thejoepiper
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sandsword
New user
Las Vegas
68 Posts
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Posted: Oct 4, 2005 5:36pm
Hello all.
I did not know that my effect and system would be such and uproar.
Let’s talk about the performances you are seeing in the video.
Jason is performing on the street in Las Vegas. In some cases when he is showing this trick, he is totally surrounded. So he does a very wide sweep with his hands to show that the coin is gone.
In one clip he does a bow type of move. We all questioned the need for that one. When he did that performance he had only had subterfuge in his hands for about an hour.
The video was shot in the early times up Subterfuge using a prototype. Jason was afraid of getting caught in the beginning so he would move real big and fast. Not watching him is a thing of beauty.
I am not sure what video you are seeing but it sounds like an early demo video where we show about 11 vanishes. That video was meant for magicians to see how easy it is. If you check out www.subterfugemagic.com you will see an updated video.
Now lets talk about that ring. I can assure you that there is no “CLINK” or talk when you pick up the quarter. The ring is important but is not a cheap rip off of MasterRing. There is more to the system than that.
I have sent in a demo for Magic Café to review along with all the major magic magazines.
I appreciate all your pre-feedback on Subterfuge and your feedback on the video.
Kenneth Sanders
subterfugemagic.com
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bloodkin
Special user
597 Posts
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Posted: Oct 4, 2005 7:46pm
Hey Kenneth,
Tried picking Subterfuge up at Hank's this weekend but they didn't have it in yet. Glad to see I can buy directly from you. Looks like the ring has a lot of PK uses too. Just need to double check my ring size. Pretty sure the 9 will work.
Dog eat Doug
The Conjurers
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tincture
Special user
534 Posts
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Posted: Oct 4, 2005 7:59pm
If the ring has PK uses, I may be interested. The vanish and ditch did turn me off a bit. I didn't even notice the ring when watching the demo! Funny that.
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