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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 9:40am
I think all artists (especially performing artists) need to examine everything they do at times to make sure every aspect of their craft is still effective. What is effective and fresh one day might be considered old hat or stale twenty years later. Twenty years after that, it might be so neglected that it is fresh again.
It also seems clear that, as in music for example, there are some exceptional artists who can pull off the cliches much better than others and make them seem somehow fresh. And of course, just because something is done a lot for a long time by many people doesn't necessarily mean that is a cliche. Usually it's just something that works really well, and keeps working really well. So maybe a good working definition of a cliche for performers is something we do out of habit so much that is no longer effective, and indeed is somehow detrimental on account of the overuse, betraying a lack of imagination.
Give all that, I'm curious to know what you guys think of as the most flagrant cliches of card magic that are recognized and perceived as cliches by today's audiences (not sophisticated magic club audiences, let's just say the average, man-off-the-street laymen type).
My list includes:
1. Overused magical gestures (esp. snapping the fingers)
2. "Pick a card, any card."
3. Those goofy headshots with two handed fans
4. "This is how they do it in the Vegas casinos..."
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Logan
Inner circle
2245 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 9:57am
Interesting!
I'd have to agree with your number 3! Don't forget the S fan!
I think another to add would be the cheesy vest that some magicians's are wearing, you know, the one with a display of card faces.
Don't get me wrong, if you like it, use it, but I find it's a bit cliche.
Smooth Criminal Magic
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
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calexa
Inner circle
Germany
1640 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:23am
"Show me your hand.... no, the clean hand"....
Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:25am
Lol! That's pretty good! That's a cliche in Germany? I'll have to use that one.
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carbone1853
Regular user
RI USA
191 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:27am
Tuxedo - I’m out for a night on the town, circa 1895.
Canes - Not a special prop or anything just a fashion accessory, circa (see above)
Feather flowers – Nothing says hack better than some poorly produced feather flowers.
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wsduncan
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3599 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 2:14pm
The single biggest cliche' in all of magic and the one that every layman thinks of when thinking of magicians: Insult humor.
Insulting the audience for a cheap laugh defines magic for many laymen.
That's why Jerry Seinfeld got such laughs with his impression of a magician:
"Here's a quarter. Now it's gone. You're an idiot."
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kramerica2010
Veteran user
329 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 3:14pm
'When I snap my fingers, this card will chage places your card. Done. Now I will make them switch back!" Ahhhh!
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Cain
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
1175 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 6:19pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-24 10:23, calexa wrote:
"Show me your hand.... no, the clean hand".... |
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And then you add, "Oh, that was the clean hand."
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 7:18pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-24 10:27, carbone1853 wrote:
Tuxedo - I’m out for a night on the town, circa 1895.
Canes - Not a special prop or anything just a fashion accessory, circa (see above)
Feather flowers – Nothing says hack better than some poorly produced feather flowers.
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All very true, but if we're going to start talking about other branches of magic, we'd have a real field day, wouldn't we? The flash pots, sawing the lady in half, the blow-dried hair, the tiger illusions, etc., we could go on and on.
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iamslow
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
1816 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2005 11:32pm
"I will cast a shadow over the card"
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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Logan
Inner circle
2245 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 12:19am
Quote:
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On 2005-09-24 23:32, iamslow wrote:
"I will cast a shadow over the card"
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Actually, I kinda like that line, especially when you do the action slowly. In actuality, nothing is happening but the spectators can get really engrossed in watching the shadow pass over the card.
On the same plane though, I can't stand the "Would you blow on the card?"
Now how's THAT gonna help?!
Smooth Criminal Magic
You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal.
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MisterE21
Elite user
Salt Lake City, UT
426 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 1:45am
I guess that my only question is:
Are the cliche's to us or to the audience? If they're cliche's to us, but they're fresh to the audience, then should we stop using them because we're tired of hearing them?
Just curious...
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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Larry Davidson
Inner circle
Potomac, MD
5163 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 7:30am
MisterE21, bingo! IF something works, why stop using it?
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T. Joseph O'Malley
Inner circle
Canada
1922 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 8:58am
Ambitious card.
tjo'
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 10:26am
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 01:45, MisterE21 wrote:
Are the cliche's to US or to the AUDIENCE? If they're cliche's to us, but they're fresh to the audience, then should we stop using them because we're tired of hearing them?
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That's an excellent point. But I addressed that in my original post:
Quote:
| "And of course, just because something is done a lot for a long time by many people doesn't necessarily mean that is a cliche. Usually it's just something that works really well, and keeps working really well. So maybe a good working definition of a cliche for performers is something we do out of habit so much that is no longer effective, and indeed is somehow detrimental on account of the overuse, betraying a lack of imagination.
Give all that, I'm curious to know what you guys think of as the most flagrant cliches of card magic that are recognized and perceived as cliches by today's audiences" |
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 07:30, Larry Davidson wrote:
MisterE21, bingo! IF something works, why stop using it?
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If something continues to work, my contention would be that you couldn't consider it to be a cliche.
But I don't think snapping your fingers over the deck works anymore. It's an impotent cliche, without any sense of magic or meaning.
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Rhabarber
New user
Switzerland
32 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 11:41am
"Pick a card. Put it back into the deck. Now I do an overhand shuffle. Now I cut the deck. Now you cut the deck. Now I fan the deck. Now I do another overhand shuffle. Now I do a riffle shuffle. Now I do another fan, followed by a hindu shuffle. Now I do a swing-sviwel-cut. Fan again. Now look, I do a waterfall shuffle, a pass and a thumb fan altogether. Now you cut the deck again. Turn over the top card. Is this your card? Oh, you forgot what your card was? Never mind, here's a rope trick."
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Larry Davidson
Inner circle
Potomac, MD
5163 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 3:24pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 11:29, scorch wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 07:30, Larry Davidson wrote:
MisterE21, bingo! IF something works, why stop using it?
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"...If something continues to work, my contention would be that you couldn't consider it to be a cliche...."
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Based on your explanation in your original posting, I agree.
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 3:50pm
Rhabarber, is that kind of thing really a cliche, or is it just bad magic?
I thought of another card magic cliche, and that is springing the cards as a show of skill. When something like that makes it into children's cartoons as a kind of stereotypical thing for a card worker to do, it's probably a cliche.
I wonder if sybil cuts will come off as a cliche in ten or twenty years.
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T. Joseph O'Malley
Inner circle
Canada
1922 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 4:01pm
Sybil cuts: how about now?
tjo'
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25311 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 4:11pm
Sybil cuts went the way of cards from mouth about the first time they were used to show skill as opposed to magic. Today we also have the flourish where you spin a card on your fingernail.
But wait, there's more...
The face up into face down shuffle
The very premise of losing a card into the pack after a selection (Nate Leipzig recognized this back early last century)
Split fans
Using Aces instead of Court cards for tricks. Like we EVER had that issue here so we need to fuss about THAT issue? Ha! Like the reason our judges wear black robes, some traditions seem to have lost their context.
Tearing up a card only to restore it IMMEDIATELY afterward.
The list goes on and on..
The leader ace, or worse, the "master ace"! Why are folks using those lines?
Here's a two dollar tip!
Look the card is blushing!
Inverse color cards. Nice in context, though downright awkward for full routines.
* no disrespect to Troy and the folks who invented the flourish cut stuff, it's simply become overused and trite.
May as well add the rising cards to the list. I've been shown the pinky rise several times by layman.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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paisa23
Inner circle
7 years no smoking. And counting
6420 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 4:19pm
I hate the card trick where They tell you to make a fist and place cards inbetween only to smack at them over and over untill your card remains. !00's of laymen show me that one . and they use the glide in a very poor manner. Kinda nitpicks at me. Ih and my faovrite. "Watch Watch look (gasp) Look"
June 22 2012 9:02 AM baby Usnavi was born!
http://twitter.com/paisa233
http://www.facebook.com/people/Wilder-J-Rua/505202382
http://www.myspace.com/wildrua
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PapaG
Special user
705 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 6:03pm
Not really a cliche but a pet hate - I can't stand the liberal use of the word 'miracle' to describe a card trick. It makes me squirm. No matter how mind-boggling the effect, it's just a card trick for $%$@'s sake.
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: Sep 25, 2005 9:15pm
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 16:11, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
The very premise of losing a card into the pack after a selection (Nate Leipzig recognized this back early last century) |
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Hmmm...that narrows our possibilities down quite a bit then, doesn't it? That would leave us, what, packet tricks? If Nate Leipzig recognized this a hundred years ago, it would seem that he was wrong in that the premise has survived quite intact through the decades. It's still surprisingly effective to have a spectator identify and "care" about a card by selecting it and putting their name on it. Though I guess I see your point in that if you are going to do a "pick a card any card" bit, the effect had better be worth it, and not cliched. But I see that as more a matter of context that applies to just about everything we do.
Quote:
| Using Aces instead of Court cards for tricks. Like we EVER had that issue here so we need to fuss about THAT issue? Ha! Like the reason our judges wear black robes, some traditions seem to have lost their context. |
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Despite their obvious and extensive use, I'm curious to know why using aces would be cliched. They are the most beautiful, singular, and unique cards in the deck (outside of the jokers I suppose). What is the lost context of using four aces in card magic? And why in your opinion is it no longer valid?
Quote:
| Tearing up a card only to restore it IMMEDIATELY afterward. |
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Is that really cliched? Or do you object because it is an effect without a logical premise? (which of course offends the theoretical sensibilities of many magicians, but audiences don't give a hoot about such things)
Like with so many effects, laymen don't seem to care that the routine may theoretically lack an exterior premise, and don't know or care about the storied history of T & R effects. Those of us who perform Reformation, Torn, or similar effects can easily attest to how effective a simple T & R effect can be with audiences. So I am inclined to disagree with you on this one.
The "premise," such as it is, or raison d'etre for the T & R, lies at a deeper, more intuitive level than mere logic. Mortal people yearn for immortality, and identify intensely with resurrection myths and images. That's why a simple T & R can be so powerful, even as it lacks the proverbial "what's my motivation?" Further, a simple T & R perfectly and beautifully follows a classical four-act dramatic structure: exposition (selecting & signing the card), development (tearing), recapitulation & climax (restoration), and denouement (handing the card back out).
Quote:
| The leader ace, or worse, the "master ace"! Why are folks using those lines?
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Oh, I thought everybody was talking about the "master race!" 
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Muckey Spleen
New user
Berwyn, IL
81 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2006 4:56am
I love the guys (some quite well known) who seem to think audiences love to watch them warm up their fingers before the magic starts. So they open and close their hands in little stretchy flourishes for a minute (or two.) Actually it's kind of thoughtful of them because it gives me a chance to leave the room.
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Jerrine
Special user
Busking is work.
629 Posts
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Posted: Sep 24, 2006 8:10am
Dude, the knuckle crack, the hand wave/roll, and the drawn out process of rolling back the sleeves are all anticipated highlights of my show. I berate anyone that even thinks about bailing at that point.
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Juliano
New user
Greece
31 Posts
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Posted: Dec 7, 2006 10:55am
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 11:41, Rhabarber wrote:
"Pick a card. Put it back into the deck. Now I do an overhand shuffle. Now I cut the deck. Now you cut the deck. Now I fan the deck. Now I do another overhand shuffle. Now I do a riffle shuffle. Now I do another fan, followed by a hindu shuffle. Now I do a swing-sviwel-cut. Fan again. Now look, I do a waterfall shuffle, a pass and a thumb fan altogether. Now you cut the deck again. Turn over the top card. Is this your card? Oh, you forgot what your card was? Never mind, here's a rope trick."
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hahahaa!!!Nice post rhabarber..really funny with real content!
I think that cliches are bad because they stop our imagination, even if the spectator hear something for the first time..We perform in a mechanical way but the right thing is to re-invent our words..And if you are a good performer you know how to present a trick to a gorgeous lady or an old man etc. And the most important you never get bored!
I prefer not to talk about this bad taste magicians with the two fans and the concept "Im real magician with supernatuural powers" .Magic itself is a deception,everyone knows it, so if you are a clever person even if you are a master in your art you have to don't take yourself seriously.And especially on 21st century. I apologise but personally I can not stand the magic with boxes and dragons on it!! or bad taste colorfull designs on them
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Andy the cardician
Inner circle
A street named after my dad
3373 Posts
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Posted: Dec 7, 2006 7:31pm
Sign your card - now there is only one card like this in the world.
Cards never lie
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dpe666
Inner circle
Under your bed or in your closet
2782 Posts
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Posted: Dec 9, 2006 2:33am
The one that I hate most is: I am using the 5 senses to create the illusion of a 6th.
God, I hate that! 
Find my e-books at
http://www.mentalshocks.com
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SteveTheMagician
New user
98 Posts
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Posted: Dec 20, 2006 9:47pm
I've had people book me for shows and ask if I wear a top hat.
No... I don't -_-
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Justin Style
Inner circle
2010 Posts
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Posted: May 8, 2007 7:25pm
Ok, look, I have...one....two....three in this hand. And now I have...one....two...three...wait, how many did I just say I had in this hand?, etc.
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