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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 8:57pm
I wondered what peoples opinions were on how well the moves on Sal's DVD would hold up in the "real world".
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 9:23pm
The perils of not having an obviously available "Search" function.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=149003&forum=111
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 9:39pm
Wow!! Welcome to the magic Café to me! Well, card cheat, thank you for rolling out the welcome mat from your royal throne built from all 110 of your expertly informed posts.
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 10:14pm
Quote:
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On 2006-03-08 21:39, Abracadizzle wrote:
Wow!! Welcome to the magic Café to me! |
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Well, yes.... Welcome to the Café. I always try not to say the "M" word; nothing personal.
Quote:
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On 2006-03-08 21:39, Abracadizzle wrote:
Well, card cheat, thank you for rolling out the welcome mat from your royal throne built from all 110 of your expertly informed posts. |
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Hmmm... have you read all 110 of my posts? I don't think so! Anyhow, the kind words are appreciated all the same. Royal throne? Well that will most certainly start some sort of pi55ing contest; this should be fun to watch.
Around here, the value of my contributions varies from member to member; if you know what I mean. Anyway, welcome....
CC
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 10:21pm
No, card cheat, I don't know what you mean. Please elaborate. The value of your contribution would have weighed favorably for me if you would have given a less sarcastic reply. And thank you for setting me straight on how things work "around here". I really thought the purpose of this forum was for magicians to help magicians.
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MagicKim
Special user
Ĺland, Finland
624 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 10:42pm
I can't get a copy of it.. Dam*** Because I live in Europe. Or can I, anyone who knows? 
kim_210385@hotmail.com
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 10:51pm
MagicKim: I just saw a copy on ebay the other day. Maybe a seller on ebay can ship overseas. I got my copy from www.pocketacesllc.net
Good Luck! It's worth the effort.
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 10:53pm
Quote:
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On 2006-03-08 22:21, Abracadizzle wrote:
The value of your contribution would have weighed favorably for me if you would have given a less sarcastic reply. |
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There was no sarcasm in my post, it can't be any less sarcastic than it was.
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 11:14pm
Card cheat: I have read several other posts on this topic. The posts that I read were from a few users that have seen the dvd, but there were also some from users that had not. I guess you have no other contributions on this topic of any value, so please keep your two cents for a rainy day. It's not that I'm uneducated on the topic of cheating, I just enjoy hearing other peoples opinions. I think Sal's dvd was exceptional, but I wanted to see if other people thought these moves would really withstand the litmus test of live play.
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13325 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 11:32pm
The real world is big place and what might hold up on your kitchen table, might fall down at other places, like casinos, and the other way around. I ain't got Sals DVD but I'm sure everything will stand or fall someplace at the right or wrong time in the real world.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 8, 2006 11:41pm
Thank you Tommy. If someone were going to cheat at a casual kitchen table game... when do you think the best time to cheat might be? Is there a move that you prefer or know is very successful? I ran across a cheat one time that used a deck of belly strippers and a pretty rough looking pass to cheat local "street pharmacists" in a game called tunk. This game is very similiar to rummy.
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 12:46am
Quote:
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On 2006-03-08 23:41, Abracadizzle wrote:
I ran across a cheat one time that used a deck of belly strippers and a pretty rough looking pass to cheat local "street pharmacists" in a game called tunk. This game is very similiar to rummy.
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Well when you saw that what did you do?
Doc
P.S. The word Tunk is spelled Tonk
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halcon
Loyal user
251 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 12:56am
Abracadizzle, you will find myriad types of people here, with many varied answers. Undoubtedly, the majority of the people you'll find here are magicians and bedroom cheats. My suggestion would be to pay close attention to what people reply. You will soon discover, who knows from moving in real life and who doesn't.
Tommy's post really sums it up, nothing further should be added. The example you posted of the cheat should say it all.
my question to you is, if you had already seen the other thread containing Sal's Dvd, along with peoples opinions, why did you re-ask the question? I understand there were replies from people who hadn't seen it yet, but, as you pointed out, there were also posts by people who had. Perhaps, the posts you read were not satisfying... that's understandable, many times they are not.
My suggestion to you would be to look around the internet. there is one forum, in particular, that's dedicated to "cardsharping".
Finally, I am sure, had you given CC a chance, he would have contributed something of value, something that would have satisfied your curiosity... I have learned more than once, silence is bliss!
Halcon
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Expertmagician
Inner circle
2098 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 8:58am
My personal opinion is that may of the moves on Sal's DVD can and are used in the real world. So, if you want to see these moved exposed, Sal's DVD is very good.
On the downside, if you are hoping to learn the mechanics of these moves or subtleties which make these moves really deceptive you WILL NOT find that information on the DVD. (For example, while he does go into some detail on some moves like the jog overhand shuffle....you can obtain a lot more information in "Expert at the Card Table" book.)
Sal's DVD is not a teaching DVD, it is an exposure DVD, so people know what to look for....so they will not be cheated. Sal does not even market it as a teaching DVD.
If you want to learn the mechanics of seconds, stocks, bottoms, hold-outs/palming, etc. the best material is in books and/or pamphetets. While some really good material is in print, your odds of finding it taught on DVD is much more difficult.
You see, many people want credit (so they put moves in print), but, really don't want it to get around, so they will leave it off the DVD.
Everyone knows that people don't like to read...so like the old saying says... "If you want to hide something, put it in print  ".
BOTTOM LINE: If you want to see an excellent mechanic do moves, then the DVD is great. But, if you want to learn how to execute the sleights yourself.....Read a book or look elsewhere. By the way, the DVD is also very professionally done.
PS: I hope Sal decideds, in the future, to put together a teaching DVD on each of the sleights, so people can actually use his technique and (more importantly) subleties and timing issues associated with each move.
Long Island,
New York
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 10:23am
Doc: I wasn't a part of the game that was being played. He makes a very nice living with moves and methods that some people would call a little bold. If I remember correctly, he can pull the lower cards when he needs to. I have never known him to be caught. The man runs a mean juice table also. I think this is the majority of his income.
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meijin
Regular user
Atlanta, GA
189 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 10:31am
Abracadizzle:
You might want to hold off jumping on a respected member of this mini-forum. CC is quite knowledgable and burning that bridge before you even get a chance to cross it is not necessarily a wise idea. As you will soon find out (if you are around long enough) is that MANY of the users here will direct you to the search function when it is apparent that someone did not try to use it to get the answer to their own question. To paraphrase halcon a tad bit differently, I will leave you with a quote my old man was fond of (and I learned through life was generally good advice):
"Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear to be a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
Have a nice day and welcome to the Café. I hope your stay becomes less bumpy.
Michael
Michael
There are two groups of people that violate basic principles in any endeavor: idiots and experts. I tend to play poker with most of the idiots!
Partial paraphrase from Jason England comment
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 11:39am
Michael: That is a very nice bit of advice. Whether or not CC is a wealth of knowledge is to be determined. The magic community is often cold and ego-driven and can make for an awkward first impression for newcomers. I'm not new to magic or gambling and have no respect or tolerance for people that are nasty or condescending to others for reasons of their own. My first post in this forum was greeted with less than open arms. This "good-ole-boy" mentality that people in this community embrace is what turns so many talented people away. And Michael, I'm am much more of one of the "good-ole-boys" than CC would expect. I wasn't asking for secrets or even a question that was off topic, I was just looking at this site as an additional resource. So, throw a little more gas on that bridge for me... it's not one that will help me get anywhere. For those that know me... they would all tell you that I am very polite and willing to learn.
EXPERTMAGICIAN: Thank you for your review. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your opinion. I know that wasn't the first time you had to write that. But thank you. Sal has some great lectures. See if you can get him to come to your area and lecture on all of these sleights.
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J Wessmiller
Veteran user
VA
305 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 12:29pm
Abracadizzle,
Excellent post, and very true. Welcome to the forums. I really enjoyed Sal's DVD, it's got a real wealth of info. I'm a fan of thinking outside the box and Sal bringing in a cheat was a very clever idea. Sal has consistantly provided excellent products and this new DVD is no exception. Worth every cent- for those that don't have it, get it.
be well,
JW
Think you know Erdnase? Take my quiz
http://wessmiller.blogspot.com
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meijin
Regular user
Atlanta, GA
189 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 12:30pm
Abracadizzle:
Perhaps I have opened my mouth and removed all doubt. Just to clarify, CC was a "wealth of knowledge" to me in cases where I asked for assistance with something and he responded with information and/or suggestions that were of benefit to me. Maybe you are more talented than he is. As for him being a magician, I don't know if he is or not. As to the "good-ole-boy" mentality, I dunno. for me personally, I can talk to talented folks like Jeff W (Weapons fo the Cardshark), Jason England (Shade, The Takedown, and many others) Doc (the real deal worker), etc. Each of those folks have attempted to help me out and for that I am grateful. So have some others that I have left out due to being in a hurry. I am not a good ole boy...nor have I been invited to be a good ole boy. I am not a magician and don't even consider myself to have much skill at all (but I am working on it). I would assume you are trying to tell me that you are someone of note behind your screen name? If so, tell me who.
Now...to not hijack this thread...I have Sal's DVD set (as well as the two disc set of lecture notes he did with MM). I liked the new set. If you have read the other thread in this forum on this topic, you will know that I had a couple of very minor criticisms. Some did not agree with me. In particular, I was interested in Doc's opinion of "Charlie's" holdout move in relation to my opinion of it. Certainly with his experience, I will have to re-evaluate my opinion. Other than that, I thought it was great and hope to see more material like this from Sal.
I am sorry if we got off to the wrong foot. The blame would be mine. Again, welcome to the Café.
Michael
Michael
There are two groups of people that violate basic principles in any endeavor: idiots and experts. I tend to play poker with most of the idiots!
Partial paraphrase from Jason England comment
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T. Joseph O'Malley
Inner circle
Canada
1920 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 12:30pm
Pardon my intrusion, but did CC not provide you with an answer, to some degree, by finding the thread for you?
I should point out that the search function is NOT obviously available, as he said above - that's why my signature reads as it does - because others may not be aware of it. His comment doesn't seem to be a comment directed towards you, in any way. I further believe that the search engine was, until recently down and out of commision. If that is true, then CC would have had to manually search to find an answer manually. Either way, he went out of his way to help you.
I don't perceive what he wrote as "sarcastic" - meaning "A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound" - in any way. What he stated was basically fact. When one first arrives here, the search engine isn't blatantly obvious.
I think you're finding strife or attack where none existed.
tjo'
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 1:35pm
Well, let's take a look at this situation.
When Mr. "Dizzle" made his first Café appearance in this thread, it was to position a question on the members' perception of a DVD and how well the moves would "hold up in the real world."
For about the last 2 or 3 weeks, the "Search" function here, at the Café, has been out of order and, since I knew this, I decided to search manually through this forum for the thread that contained several responses that could very well pass as answers to his question. Mr. O'Malley was certainly correct in his appraisal and analysis of my post by announcing that within it he located no sarcasm whatsoever. I, myself, had posted subsequently that I intended for no sarcasm to be included in said snippet; therefore, it was simply not sarcastic at all. Apparently, like everything else, it was open for interpretation, however.
Can I apologize? Sure I can. Do I think that I did anything that should warrant an apology? Nope! If you would like an apology, Mr. Dizzle, I would suggest you ask for one; you certainly sound as though you were offended by my post.
Mr. Dizzle then fired at me a post that asked me to keep my two cents for a rainy day. Two cents? I had not commented one iota on the content of the DVD: at this point I had only provided him with a link that would have lead him to a source of answers to his question and mentioned that no sarcasm was intended by me in my post. To be quite honest, it was I who thought that his response to my first post in this thread was a little sarcastic. Royal throne? 110 Expertly informed posts? Welcome to the Café?
First of all, there is no way that this person read all 110 of my posts. Secondly, not all 110 of my posts were "expertly informed", I never said that I am an expert of any sort; I am only a card cheat: no more or less. Lastly, I am not on the "Welcoming Committee" here at the Café. What responsibility do I have to welcome anyone? I could have just not posted an answer to his question, and not tried to help him. Perhaps this would have been more welcoming?
Then, Mr. Dizzle says that my knowledgeability is "to be determined." Hmm, that's interesting! Tell me, Mr. Dizzle, how do you plan on determining how much I know? Now tell me this, how can you possibly measure how much I don't know? In other words, what I post here might or might not represent accurately the sum total of my knowledge. Go ahead, determine.... By the way, that's sarcasm.
Saying that your first post in this thread was "greeted with less than open arms" tells me that you need a hug. Do you need a hizzle, Mr. Dizzle?
Good ole boy mentality? What's that? The vast majority of people here on this site are spread out over the entire planet and, I would imagine, don't know each other from Adam. What I don't get is that you say that a good ole boy mentality is what turns people away, and then you say that you are more of a good ole boy than I would expect. For your information, this website has a total of 23,795 members, and that number will most likely have increased in no less than an hour from now. How many people are really being turned away? Anyhow, if they are turned away by the sort of mindless, infantile, masturbatory bickering that you see here, I couldn't blame them.
Meijin and Halcon both made comments here that alluded to the fact that I have been of assistance to them in the past. Well, if that is really true, then I am glad. I have shared PMs with both of these gentlemen, and hope to do so in the future, as well.
As far as my being a magician, I am not. Never will be. I came to the Café to catch on to what was being said about card cheating by the magic community; no info is bad or worthless info, is my philosophy. Do I like card tricks? You bet! I just don't care to learn them. The techniques that I employ under-fire are for cheating; no "DLs" here, if you get my drift.
Meijin then makes a comment saying that it is possible that Mr. Dizzle is more talented than I am. Well, this might be true but I don't see how talent represents knowledge. I think that talent, ability, and knowledge are very, very separate considerations when it comes to crooked gambling practices and research. I study this full time, and will continue to until the day that I die. I cheat at cards. I get the money. If you are better than me, then that is really, really good: for you (and your audience.) I will say that I am not the one who asked what the best time to move at the kitchen table was, or what moves would get the money at the kitchen table. This brings me to another point:
I would suggest, Mr. Dizzle (mmm, love that name), that you be very careful about saying that you are knowledgeable in the area of cheating. You claim to be knowledgeable in the art of crooked gambling and then ask these sorts of questions. Would the moves fly in the real world?!? Kitchen table?!? Gimme a brizzle, Mr. Dizzle! If you cheated, at all, even once, you would know if the moves would fly or not. I will just come out and say the answer to the question, "Would the moves fly in the real world?"
Yes, and no. It all depends on the company that you find yourself in, the game you play, your abilities (or lack thereof) your nerve (you got plenty of that) the stakes... get it? The list of variables is endless, and if you had ever moved under the heat of so much as a burned-out matchstick, you would know this.
"Tunk?" "Pulling the lower cards?" "Juice Table?" What, is that what you find in health-food stores? Are you joking?
For the record, I agree with Mr. O'Malley: you went looking for strife and attack where there was none.
Card Chizzle
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Vandy Grift
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3505 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 1:49pm
Fo Shizzle Card Chizzel!! It makes you wonder why you even try sometimes dosen't it? No good deed goes unpunished. You posted a link and got slammed. Oh well..
Abracadizzle; You may want to start a new thread about your boys juice joint. I would actully like to hear about that. I'm a fan and a student of juice joints and gaffed dice.
Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 1:52pm
All in a day's wizzle!
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13325 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:04pm
Thank you for posting all that - I'll waste no time reading it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:22pm
CC: You must have been up all night working on ripping me that new one. If you have to seriously question what a "juice table" is, then I can cement my original notion that you have seen a few too many movies and pumped yourself up full of gas with a few viewings of an Ortiz video. I do in fact know what I'm talking about and I can assure you, that last church fundraiser that you dealt a hanging bottom at does not put you in the league of real cheaters out there. You are not even qualified to bring a real cheater a glass of water. I do know when a cooler can be brought in and where. Whether it be all 8 decks at a casino blackjack game or at a kitchen table. I wanted to spark a conversation that might take us all down an interesting path of discussion and creativity. The person I was reffering to with the juice table and stripper deck is known by a few people. And this is one of those people that can get the money.
DOC: Think Cincinnati and a man with a voice that sounds a little like Mike Tyson and you'll know who I'm talking about.
Back to CC: Do you really think that anyone on this site buys that you are a legitimate cheat? I know I am not the first to challenge you on this. As far as being able to move under the heat, I have very reasonable doubts that you know anything of this. One saying that some people use about the best cheat in the world is that he would put a move on in front of the Pope. So, where does that leave you? Perhaps still trying to run the short change on the Brownie Scout that delivered your thin mints. I know enough to be dangerous to Myself and that's about it. But, I can assure you that that is enough to send you to the fridge in a card game to get me a beer any day of the week.... that is if your old enough. The only person you are cheating is yourself. You are cheating yourself out of a great deal of knowledge in this forum by pretending to already know something and being too proud to ask a question that may give you away as an armchair mover. I enjoyed the rhymes and thought you put into that last post of yours. I think I like Mr. Dizzle just fine... Just practice saying "would you like another beer Mr. Dizzle" a few times and you'll find yourself around card games as much as you like.
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MagicKim
Special user
Ĺland, Finland
624 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:31pm
Abracadizzle I couldn't find the DvD on ebay. The www.pocketacesllc.net doesn't ship to Europe =/. Any other idea?  Thanks for your reply though, perhaps it's just me being stupid when not finding it on ebay..
Best,
Kim
kim_210385@hotmail.com
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:38pm
MAgicKim: I talked to an old buddy of mine and he said he came across some of them online at a magic shop. He called and they said they could possibly ship overseas. I hope this helps. The one on ebay isn't on there when I look either.
www.hersheymagic.com
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card cheat
Elite user
426 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 3:42pm
Quote:
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On 2006-03-09 15:22, Abracadizzle wrote:
I do in fact know what I'm talking about and I can assure you, that last church fundraiser that you dealt a hanging bottom at does not put you in the league of real cheaters out there. |
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But I don't deal bottoms, and I sure as HELL don't go to church. You want to explain what you mean by this?
One day, I will "graduate" to the kitchen table. Looks like you might just have to wait until then for that beer, pal. I'll hurry....
CC
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Mr. Z
Special user
Las Vegas, NV
826 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 5:35pm
This thread, like so many on this wonderful forum, is akin to a group of midgets arguing who's taller.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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Abracadizzle
New user
34 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2006 5:52pm
Mr. Z.... Well Played (Jason)
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