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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 2:51am
They May Be Little But They’re Mine
You know being that life is short we all would appreciate a little acknowledgement for our contributions and accomplishments in life and since no one acknowledging mine, I'm going on record to date and saying that the dice hold out with the two prongs is mine of which I made and likewise the punch is mine and also made by me.
Respectfully
Doc
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SDR
Elite user
UK
401 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 3:32am
Do you have any proof?
Best Wishes
Shaun
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4266 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 3:52am
Doc's word is good enough in my book... but I would believe Steve would gladly acknowledge its Doc's if asked directly, unless there was some splitup I wasnt aware of...
What incentive would Doc have to come on here and BS about it? It would be easy enough for Steve or Sal to prove him wrong and then his word wouldnt mean much, and in the past Doc has always kept his word from what I've seen and been pretty honest...
Have you seen his Dice Holdout vid? very killer for the right situations.
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 5:29am
Quote:
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On 2006-05-04 03:32, SDR wrote:
Do you have any proof?
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Yes them and God and God Can't Lie. Don't get me started because many have been robbed out of a lot of their ideas, accomplishments, titles and inventions throughout centuries and in many cases never been given credit for it. If you don't believe me just check your history books.
If we had $1,000 when we’d go hustling, the first thing Bugs would do is put up $1,000. If we won he’d say, ‘Do you want to bet $2,000?’ We were in Johnston City when he played Fats. We had $1,100. He played Fats a set of banks for a $1,000. So he beat Fats the set of banks and then he played him ten-eight for $2,000. So he winds up winning the $2,000. Now we got $4,100. So Fats said, ‘I’m not going to play anymore banks.’ So Bugs said, ‘I’ll tell you what I’m going to do. I’m going to throw these balls [the cue ball and one object ball] on the table and wherever they stop I’ll bet you $4,000 I bank it.’
1P: He would bet the whole $4,000 on one bank shot?
JH: At first nobody would bet, but then he threw the balls on the table and when they stopped it was in such a bad spot that now everybody jumped up and wanted to get in. They said, ‘You said wherever those balls stop?’ So Bugs says, ‘That’s what I said.’ So now everybody wanted to bet! So Bugs got down and made the ball straight back for the $4,000. He had more heart than all these guys playing pool. He’s my hero. He’s part of me.
Why I Showed Up
The only reason ya'll know of me now is because I didn't want any of my ideas, inventions and moves stolen and posted by some of ya'll with your name attached to my stuff like on (videodepot) and lo and behold what I said came true and now you're asking me for proof? Sal on his video didn't even know where to place the punch at on his thumb to punch the card he demonstrated.
The only reason I don't talk about the some of the horrible moves, things and deals that I see on many of these DVD's is because many of these guys are my friends and silence is golden; and some of you whom I've met know just what I'm talking about. Let me shut up.
Doc
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sportshooter
Regular user
Atlanta, GA USA
162 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 8:14am
Doc,
It's great to have you back! Thanks for letting us know those were your moves, credit should be given where credit is due.
Regards,
SS
"Don't trouble 'bout no two hen's, Boss. Get yo' own hen'. De suckah, he'll get a han' all right, suah!"
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 11:09am
I sincerely apologize to all who read my post and think that it's mean and maybe you're right and the street side of me has popped out.
My things are tiny yes but they're mine and I want to be known for them. If you made something wouldn't you want to be acknowledge for it? Even if you don’t I do. Not acknowledging is the issue here because I gave them the items as a free gift because of our friendship like they in turn gave me stuff of which I did acknowledge so it would only be right to do likewise; that’s all I'm saying.
Signed
Just Thinking Out Loud
Doc
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Vandy Grift
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3505 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 11:25am
It's all good Doc. There is no reason NOT to expect credit when it's due. And I think it's reasonable to be disappointed when the credit is not forthcoming. It wouldn't be very difficult for those that have gained from your knowledge (and you willingness to share it with them) to give a little "shout out" when they are talking about the various things.
Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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RS1963
Inner circle
2356 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 12:10pm
I have never met Doc. But the few times I have communiccated with him I have found no reason to not believe what he has said.
Doc is certainly a wealth of knowledge and certainly does need to be givin credit for somethings.
Good to see you here again Doc.
Randy
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 2:30pm
There's only one way that you can be sure to receive credit for your ideas: publish them! If you want to sit on them, somebody will probably beat you to the punch and you won't have anyone but yourself to blame for it.
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Vandy Grift
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3505 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 2:35pm
Scorch, I believe in Docs last post he stated that he was mad when he wrote the original post.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Daegs
Inner circle
USA
4266 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2006 4:10pm
Lol... fats was certainly not the best banker even if he talked it. And a banker beating fats was not out of the ordinary, Lefty regularly got him AFAIK.
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SDR
Elite user
UK
401 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2006 12:45pm
I was just interested if you could back up your statement with facts, no need for the hostility.
Best Wishes
Shaun
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silverking
Inner circle
4376 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2006 1:47pm
If Doc says he invented a specific gaff, he invented it....end of story.
As I, and many others have learned, Doc is always straight up when speaking on the Café.
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2006 2:35pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-05 12:45, SDR wrote:
I was just interested if you could back up your statement with facts, no need for the hostility.
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You may be right about me being a little hostile but why shouldn't I be? You basically called me a liar. Why is it that I have to produce proof? Do you believe that they made every item that they displayed on their GPS videos and still had time to learn how to cheat etc.?
What proof can I produce that will prove to you or anyone else here that I gave them those items? Only them, angels and God knows I did because no one else was there when I gave them the things so on that note I have no proof except what I previously stated.
For your info. the only reason I'm at this site is because I gave my opinion of "The New Phantom's of the Card Table" book by Gazzo stating that my punch dealing ability was like that of Walter Scott's and Gazzo's and when questioned "Why would someone believe a cheat" I had the same response now as I did then and when I presented my questionnaire on making a punch and how to use it; know one wrote back answering my questions on it.
For the record the only person that ever made a punch that was better than mine that I met (just by a fraction) was Gazzo and that's only because his was manufactured.
Something else you need to know...The only reason I gave that one away is because he only had one particular type in his show case (and no I'm not talking about the fake chips nor the stick holdouts) therefore mine would've looked nice displayed there being that I don't work with inferior items once I invent new ones. To view my new invention (The Eagle Claw Dice Holdout) search for my dice switching video and see me take the World Title for Dice Switching of which I got the idea from my mentor Steve Forte after watching his video.
Let Me Clarify Something
I Did Not Invent The Two Prong Dice Hold-Out of which you can see pics of in an old How to Detect Cheat Book by Al Lampkin (The New Books doesn't have the pic) and the K.C. Card Co. Blue Book and I Did Not Invent the Punch. Being that I'm poor and couldn't find it, I made the items by taking my time, looking at the pictures and reading the instructions.
This why I don't understand many of you here that always want info. and stuff but you never get down and get your hands dirty by doing what you have to do in order to become the best; if I can invent so can you and when you do post it like I did so no one can claim your stuff and ideas as theirs.
P.S. Silverking thanks for the shout out it's always great to make a new friend and Vandy thanks for your help in advancing my dice skills.
Signed
The Doctor
P.S. You see I give credit where credit is due.
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13329 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2006 7:36pm
I think it's difficult to give credit to a hustler as the hustlers don't want to be known. I sometimes read magicians say this move was shown to me by a smart gambler or things like that. What you should do is write you own book like Erdnase in a moody name if want to tell every one anything that is.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 12:03am
It would be nice to bring Steve Forte's Casino Protection Book into one of my gambling spots and show my name in the area where my dice device is located and then present Sal's Poker Cheat Exposed DVD on my 6 Gig iPod and fast forward to the area where he's showing off my punch as he says "A gambler by the name of Doc gave me this."
I already show off the Damien Neiman and myself footage on my Laptop/iPod when I met him in Atlantic City at his Shade Premiere of which I would have never met him without the help of Jason England. I also show off the footage of Darwin, Andrew and myself and also the footage of Gazzo and myself so why wouldn't I do the same for them?
When one accomplishes something they at least want a pat on the back for it. All I can do now is show the footage of Steve, Sal, Rod the Hop and myself with them when I show the GPS series and Sal's Poker Cheat DVD just like I show the Shade Extra footage of Damien and then show him and I together.
Signed
Just Thinking Out Loud
Doc
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silverking
Inner circle
4376 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 12:18pm
Doc's sentiment is accurate, and history supports what he posted.
It's all there in the history books as hard fact, even though some would like to keep the topic a subjective one.
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SDR
Elite user
UK
401 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 12:29pm
I just wanted to know if you could back up your statement for your sake. A lot of people claim things, probably did come up with them, but cannot prove it. I was interested to know, I didn't have an opinion either way.
Best Wishes
Shaun
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 1:28pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-06 11:28, scorch wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-05-05 14:35, Unknown419 wrote:
You may be right about me being a little hostile but why shouldn't I be? You without words called me a liar. Why is it that I have to produce proof? |
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Well, though I see it was edited out, you called everybody else racists without any proof or substantiation. How is that any different?
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How can I be racist when it is ya'll who have helped me throughout the years to get to the level that I am at now and is still helping me. I’m not racist because I speak about my people it is you who is. My people is all I know about as I listen to the stories so who can I speak about? Why is it that I don’t see stories about us is what I’m really saying? Is it because you don’t know about us or you’ve heard only stories about your people. You speak but you really don't know what's going on...so I'll tell you.
What’s Really Going On Behind the Scene?
I'm getting PM’d from new posters who never posted and is very knowledgeable (the big boys) telling me that I shouldn't be going in this direction and talking about the things I do because it will alienate me from being amongst them. What am I to do? Stick with helping ya'll or go with them?
My mother always taught me Not To Burn Any Bridges cause you might just have to cross over that same bridge again in life and since I always listen to my mother...Big Boys I'd rather stick with the little guys here at this forum and at Louis Tannens, Hank Lee's, the kids at Maui Taco's, Wesley, John, Gene Maze, Doug Edwards, Carl Polaris, Harry Loraine, Bill Kalush, Lou Lancaster, Ken Krenzel, Alan Halcon, Jeff Wessmiller, Craig, The guy who wrote my card memory program and to those of you who helped me advance my knowledge to whom I forgot to mention I’m sorry but I'd rather be with and around you guys any day of the week because I have a good time every time I see ya’ll.
I always say when gambling you can't break a broke man (of which I'm already broke) so there is nothing that you can take away from me. The lives of my friends and students who read my post is more important to me than anything else in this world and I Don't Want Them Being Fooled and Being a Sucker Like I Was. Even though cheating in any game or at anything is wrong at least you should know the facts.
I've purchased every gadget that I need to cheat with, I got all the videos/books/pics that I want, I have this site and others for more information, I have the magicians as my friends all I need now is a movie deal to tell it like it is from the other side of which I will raise the $30,000 if need be or I'll get some investors. Whatever the case maybe...little people I've went to the promised land and got kicked out like I always do so I'm crossing that same bridge coming back home that I didn’t burn to hang with ya'll...the little down to earth guys.
If ya’ll (Big Boys) don't want me around ya'll it's ya'll lost not mine because for 44 years of not knowing you I did just fine and since I have me enough information of whatever I want and friends that'll last me a life time I hope and pray to live another 44 years without you…
”As I sit in the old folks home like my teacher Walter Scott someone at this forum might search me out and voila there will be a book written about me.”
Signed By “On The Road Again”
The Doctor
P.S. Readers once you make it to the top it’s not all what it’s cracked up to be at least it wasnt' for me. Put this information in your pocket and when you reach the top and find out what I said to be true just say Doc told me so.
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scorch
Inner circle
1484 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 2:34pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-06 13:28, Unknown419 wrote:
I’m not racist because I speak about my people it is you who is.
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Let me be clear: I never said you were a racist. I don't know you and would have no basis to make such a statement. I said that you called others (including, now, me, apparently!) racists without any substantiation. Though many might see that kind of low-class mudslinging as a form of racism. I am not speaking about "your people." I am speaking about you and the views that you have expressed, saying that ideas were stolen from you because of racism. That's the attitude of somebody who inflicts victim status on himself.
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 2:59pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-06 14:34, scorch wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-05-06 13:28, Unknown419 wrote:
I’m not racist because I speak about my people it is you who is.
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Let me be clear: I never said you were a racist. I don't know you and would have no basis to make such a statement. I said that you called others (including, now, me, apparently!) racists without any substantiation. Though many might see that kind of low-class mudslinging as a form of racism. I am not speaking about "your people." I am speaking about you and the views that you have expressed, saying that ideas were stolen from you because of racism. That's the attitude of somebody who inflicts victim status on himself.
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Maybe we both have a little bit of misunderstanding since we're typing and not talking face to face. I'm not racist and your not racist and that's good for me. We're just talking as men here and you're definitely entitled to your opinion. Scorch nothing was stolen from me I just said an acknowledgement would have been nice.
If we misunderstood one another all we have to do is rectify it. Again they of whom I spoke of are my friends and they stole nothing from me, as a matter of fact they had way more stuff than I would ever consider purchasing and maybe this is why they forgot to mention it because so many people give them things. I wrote I was just thinking out loud. You know the Devil always throw something to an idle mind to make him think or do something wrong.
I believe that just like a salad wouldn't be a real salad if it just had lettuce but when you add all the different vegetables like tomatoes, onions, carrots the crotons etc. with some Ranch Dressing now that makes a salad; I guess that's why God made all nations of men from one man because he wanted to add a little color (different ethnic groups) to His salad (World). So on that note "Can We All Just Get Along?"
Peace My Brother
Your New Friend
Doc
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bishthemagish
Inner circle
5578 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2006 10:17pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-06 13:28, Unknown419 wrote:
Readers once you make it to the top it’s not all what it’s cracked up to be at least it wasnt' for me. Put this information in your pocket and when you reach the top and find out what I said to be true just say Doc told me so.
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Hey Doc, I just wanted to jump in here and say something that a lot of Café members already know. That Doc is the real deal. Of the old school of hard work and earning the moves.
Often when one from the old school doesn't get credit they will tell others about their ideas and where they came from. In magic there are people that take ideas. others use ideas and somehow forget to give credit of where they got the idea.
Good to have you back in the Café Doc and thanks for a great read.
Just a few thoughts and opinion.
Glenn Bishop - Bish The Magish!
Magician, Card Sharp and Master Hypnotist.
http://glennbishopmagicandcards.blogspot.com
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JTW
Special user
Florida
669 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 10:41am
Doc While we have never met, I have met Sal. One thing I can say about Sal is that he is a very giving person. If you had gone to him FIRST (meaning after you had seen the DVD) many of the problems that you have may have been taken care of. Instead you go on a public forum to call them (Steve and Sal) out.
I hate to break this to you but the burden of proof is on you, because you claim the moves and devices are yours. The posters that have come to back you up and the fact that you mentioned the footage of you with many of the greats makes what you say believable but you offer no proof. You want to B*#$% about people stealing your moves and publishing them, I understand where you’re coming from, its happened to me as well (and I REALLY have no "name" in this art). The point is YOU cried foul, YOU must supply the proof to the community that what you claim is true. Otherwise, and I hate to say this, its just another grasp by someone at getting their name in the books.
To be clear I am not saying you aren't being truthful and I most certainly am not calling you a liar, I'm neither a judge nor a jury. If you want things to change you need to bring the proof.
JTW
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silverking
Inner circle
4376 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 11:51am
The visitors to this forum demand JUSTICE!
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JTW
Special user
Florida
669 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 4:14pm
And another quality post by Silverking. I do not post often here but I read a lot including your posts...
Are you insinuating that if someone reads this thread and hasn't posted as prolifically as you, that they are not entitled to an opinion on the subject?
Doc brought the whole issue up. He wants the credit he has to provide the sources it’s really quite simple.
Many thanks for an insightful discussion,
"merely a visitor"
JTW
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iamslow
Inner circle
Proffessional Slacker
1816 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 4:32pm
Woo hooooo!! This is getting good!  
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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Top Hat
Inner circle
We peed on you!
1077 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 4:55pm
I am outraged.
TH     
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silverking
Inner circle
4376 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 4:59pm
Quote:
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another quality post by Silverking.
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Thank You for your kind words.
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Unknown419
Inner circle
1332 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 9:48pm
Quote:
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On 2006-05-07 10:41, JTW wrote:
Doc ... the burden of proof is on you, because you claim the...devices are yours. YOU must supply the proof to the community that what you claim is true.
The point is YOU cried foul.
To be clear I am not saying you aren't being truthful and I most certainly am not calling you a liar, I'm neither a judge nor a jury.
JTW
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Doc ... the burden of proof is on you, because you claim the...devices are yours. YOU must supply the proof to the community that what you claim is true.
Why is the burden of proof on me? The burden of proof comes upon me when the individual deny that I didn't give them what I said I gave them. They did not deny anything as of yet and until then...Case Dismissed.
The point is YOU cried foul.
I didn't Cry Foul "I said that it would have been nice if they acknowledged the things that I gave them. What if they honestly forgot? If so you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. You know I believe that it's the Devil that's behind the people who instigate issues when there is none. To err is human so if they forgot are they not human? I said I was thinking out loud and now disbelieving readers want me to go up against my friends...for what because they most likely made an honest mistake? Friendship is more important to me.
If you want things to change you need to bring the proof.
So what you're telling me is this...if I bring proof or they admit it that they are going to take back all the Casino Protection Books and redo them over just to put that little known fact in it and Sal take back all of his DVD's and re-shoot just a particular segment just to satisfy me? I don't think so but if you like by all of Steve's books and Sal's DVD and sponser their stuff being redone and published and then all will be well but until then...I guess I'm gonna have to put an "H" on my chest and Handle It.
As far as that punch being mine...just ask Gazzo, Steve F., Sal P., Darwin O., Andrew W., Bob R., Damien N., Bill Kalush., Meir Yedid, Ricky Jay, Ricky Jay's Manager, Herb Z., Wesley J., Craig K., Jeff W., The Staff at Hank Lee's, The Staff at Louis Tannen's, The Kids at Maui Taco's, Doug E., Carl P., Gene Maze., Lou Daria, Rod the Hop, Allan A., Alan H., Mark Mitton, Gene Matsuura, Expert Magician, David Ben and my friend who taught me the Endless Loop.
All of these gentlemen have seen my punch and only Craig and Alan H. have seen me make one in front of their face teaching them.
Oh I forgot to say that I gave many of these here guys one of my punches too...I hope I don't have to prove that too. lol
Respectfully
Doc
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halcon
Loyal user
251 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2006 11:12pm
Wow! I'm gone for a few and this happens.
I concur, with many on this thread who are backing Doc in this matter. Doc has no reason to lie, especially in a public forum. Not once, have I known Doc not to give credit to someone, in regards to something he uses. I visited with him and he was generous enough to show me some very esoteric things, ALWAYS, giving credit where credit was due. He didn't have to, as I would have not doubted if he had come up with them on his own. the point is, If he's so willing to give acknowledgment, why would he lie about his own creations?
Only craig, myself, and a few others, who have actually been fortunate enough to have gone to Docs house, can with certainty, tell you why this man is telling the truth.
I would go so far as to say, if he claims to be the originator of these items, the burden to prove he's is telling the truth is not on him. I suggest, everyone calling him out prove he isn't telling the truth.
it seems ludacris, that people would bash him without having proof that he isn't telling the truth... what proof do you have he isn't?
Halcon
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