Hi all,

This is a bit of a wide open question, but here goes anyway.

I'm thinking of doing some work on safe escapes. I've never done this before and to be honest I don't really know where to start.

So far all I know about them has come from the Steranko issue of Genii (if you've not got this I'd suggest getting it, its great).

If anyone has any info they'd like to share with me please feel free to drop me an email at roslyn@roslynwalker.com

Any info you have at all will be greatfully received.

Many thanks,

Ros

Ros, interesting question. I don't think I have ever heard of a magician escaping from a safe. We have seen boxes which are steel lined, but not genuine safes. I bet most people don't know what the inside of a safe looks like. I have seen a few from different churches, small ones which are not large enough to hold a person, but they do not have any mechanism to manipulate. It seems that a large amount of time in presenting the effect would consist of educating people about safes.

I have delt with safes working in a pawn shop. what kind are you looking at. I mostly worked with gun safes.

I suggest going to the DarkMaster site and looking at the New Years vid. That is an actual, real, full sized, working vault safe. It has an exterior plate that covers the handle and lock mechanism, so that once inside, no one on the outside acn let you out either. I know some folks that have been inside that same vault and can tell you its not a show prop.

Remember Ros, when you shop from a magic catalog, you are pretty safe, but when you shop from hardware dealers you enter a world of very high risk, so seek high counsel, think things through, and have safety first priority. Then decide if the risk is worth it.

Thanks KSD,

I've seen the New Years Eve escape that Santini did.

I understand that there are added risks involved when not using "magic" props. But to be honest I don't want to use "magic" props and the safe is something that's been on my mind for a while.

I thought this would be the best place to start my research on the subject. If there's anyone that's done this already and has any advice (except "don't do it" ) I'd be very greatful.

I can help escape from a gun safe. a friend of mine performed an underwater escape from one. they seem impossible to get out of but if you know the workins it can be very simple. I used to fix them, and in my free time I would mess around with them, any time I dissapeared, my boss always checked the safes first.

it would be nice if you had a specific type of safe to escape from. there are bank safes, many kinds of gun safes, electric safes, old timey safes, etc.... and do you want to do it under water, under heat, by itself, under cover, etc.

I am planning an escape from one within a years time.

don't let my age fool you.

Ros,
I too suggest that you contact Santini.
http://www.geocities.com/cindini_2000/cindiniarticle.jpg

When all was said and done my only regret was not having the Jaws of Life there!
Jussssst incase. Atleast the drill was there for Air holes if needed.
BTW, don't let my gender fool Ya'
(sorry, could'nt resist)

Best of Luck to Ya's!
Cin

Getting out of a safe is fairly easy. You just have to line up the tumblers.
Any safe manual or locksmith book will show how the mechanism works.
Just have a flash light, safes are dark inside.

Gee , too bad someone did'nt mention that to "Randi" from what I hear. Hmmmmmm
(That's not a flame but rather a heads up for other EA's)

Santini showed and illustrated at The Escaporium 6 different vault and safe locks and each one had it's own problems and facts.
He also discussed relockers, AND even discussed how to escape when the lock mech box was sealed, out of sight, or marked with signed postage stamps.
He also illustrated successful presentation for the media of safe escapes which was put into practice and earned a good story with it.
Ros, I again suggest an e mail to Steve

Cin

yep, that basically how I get out of gun safes. its just a little bit harder, with the way they are positioned.

These are Mike's tips to get kids out of safes when they get stuck:

1. Get a carbide tipped hole saw 2 1/2" across, 4" deep.(get this before
the safe shows up, or its:...next...day...air) Pun intended.

2. Cut air holes in each side. One to pump air in. one to let air out.

3. Now by the time you drill these the air is already starting to get bad so
get the shop vac to pump air faster.

(Now here is where most people dump the dust out before plugging the hose into the exhaust, but personaly I think the extraction is much funnier with the victim covered in white shop dust. make sure to get a camera either way. The look is pricless.)

4. Get an angle grinder. 6" is better for the spark show. Cut a whopping big hole in the side cause its already ruined from the airholes.

5. Snap a lot of pictures and post them on the internet real fast. Attach them to chainletters whatever.

6. Save dial to hang on wall for story to tell grandkids.

7. Pay $75 or $100 to have giant steel, monolith, disaster hauled away.

;-) [:0] < kid trapped in safe.

Ros how do you intend to Haul the Safe/Bring it to your Shows they can be quite heavy. D,

A team of 3-4 guys and a good doly (sp), he should be alright. the stairs will be tricky, but not impossible
enless is a crazy heavy safe. then you might need 6 guys, and some hydrolic lift.

a fork lift is always nice.

a pully system would work well too.

Hi R....As many of you know, I am a Master Locksmith, and I work on safes a lot.

I'd like to let you know a few things about British safes. (I suspect you are looking to do a safe escape here in the UK)

Most UK safes are key locking. Only about 10% are combination locking. Also, nearly all of the safes here in the UK don't have access panels on the back of the door to get at the lock mechanism. You have to remove the complete rear of the door (it's called the door pan). This door pan folds around the edge of the door, so when the door is closed, it is held in place not only by the fixing bolts, but also is trapped by the safe locking bolts.

On safes with combination locks, there is only a small keyhole on the inside for a combination change key.

So therefore, what I am saying is this. When you are inside the safe, there is no way you can get at the lock, even if you had a complete toolkit in there with you!

Another thing. If you are inside the safe, and it would need to be a big one, 'cos Ros, you're a big guy. So we're looking at a commercial quality safe. These would have a much more sophisticated locking system, maybe even 2 locks. Even if you were able somehow to get those locks open, you still have the problem of retracting the (maybe 8) locking bolts that lock the door into the safe body.

Many of the high quality safes have what they call "Isolated Boltwork" This means that until the lock(s) are open, the boltwork cannot be retracted, because a clutch mechanism needs to be engaged by turning the outside handle. There is no internal way this can be turned, as there would be no need for the manufacturers to allow access from the inside.

One more thing....Relocking Devices. Good quality safes have Relocking Devices, or AEDs (Anti-Explosive Devices) These trigger if the lock is compromised by anything but the key. Heat, explosion, vibration etc. If the lock is somehow compromised, extra locking bolts (AED's) will trigger, locking the door even more!

Still want to try it?

There may be a way to do it under your VERY CONTROLLED conditions, but it would mean a lot of work on the safe, removing most of the internal mechanism, adding an examinable access panel to the inside of the door, and a total knowledge of what could go wrong.

This escape could not be done on a regular large safe in everyday use.

I would welcome comments from others, but please remember, I have a lot of experience of UK safes. I cannot comment on safes from the US which may be more suitable for this.

Mick,

Sorry I missed your call last night, and many thanks for posting this wealth of info.

To answer your question, yes I still want to do it

I'd heard of the extra bolts that trigger when the lock was compromised, but was under the impression they were to be found on burgler "proof" safes.

Is there much difference between these types of safe and the fire "proof" safes? For some reason I'd always thought that these had a lower amount of security. Is this right?

One other thing. Does anyone know of any resources for lock mechanism diagrams (both UK and US safes would be good)?

Thanks again for all your help so far.

Ros

Yes Ros, if you go for "Fire Protection Cabinets" instead of High Security safes, you may have a chance. They can be big enough for you and still look impressive. You will still need to find a way out though!

If you seriously plan to give this a try, I think it may be best for us to PM, due to the fact that I won't post sensitive security information on particular safes or security cabinets here, for obvious reasons.

I'd be happy to discuss ideas and possible solutions, but it won't be easy, believe me!

Sounds like a plan.

Thanks for your help,

Ros

Ros,

I spent some time a few years back as a locksmith and found that too many variables made it dangerous to say the least to attempt an escape from a safe that hasn't been "worked" on in some manner. The spectators will never know the difference if it is a fully working safe or not, and if it is "worked on" in some way, it at least narrows your chance of getting into serious trouble.

Be careful my friend, find someone who has been there, done that and spend a lot of time working out the details and you will be fine. Best of luck!

Tony