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Peter Marucci
Inner circle
5388 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 12:27am
There's a world of difference, in a social setting, between asking a magician to "do a trick" and asking a plumber to fix your sink.
Lance Burton once said something to the effect that "don't tell them (the paying customers) this but I like doing magic so much I'd do it for nothing."
There's nothing wrong with performing without pay, as it were, just so long as you are SURE they really want you to perform, and are not just asking you out of politeness.
But, then, several people have pointed that out already! 
cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 1:20am
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And I have been in the military for 11 years and no one has ever asked me to liberate their living room or bomb their garage.
My dad was a biologist and no one ever asked him to dissect their dog.
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Ah ha! So magicians are less respected than Sergeants and Biologists.
We can be brow beaten into doing our profession for free at a moments notice.
No thank you. As the magician I reserve the right to decide when and where I perform. I nearly always perform when respectfully presented with a respectful opportunity. And yes sometimes people don't even know they are making the offer. That is when the magic is strongest.
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Mr. Ed
Veteran user
California
337 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 11:09am
Hello all. I've been watching this debate and my head is whirling. I never would have considered this such a hot debate. I am not a pro, but a student of magic.
I understand what Great Scott and others are saying about being asked and not (sorry for the pun) forcing yourself on others. I am assuming that any performance would only be one that was practiced, prepared and ready for public display.
With all of that being the case, wouldn't it be rude to not do a little something. I would think it would be insulting not to. (Now I do not intend to get anyone fired up with that comment, I am just trying to understand this debate.)
My understanding of the question is this: You are at a social gathering & it has somehow been made known by some means that you are a magician or study magic or whatever. You are asked by another guest to preform an effect. Wouldn't it make you seem like a snob to not oblige the request. Again assuming the situation is appropriate.
As for the arguement of plumbers and biologists. I think magic does inspire awe in the public, and people like to be awed. I was a plumber years ago, and while I was never asked to fix a leak right on the spot, I was asked questions a lot. I would always answer and give advice, because it let me help others to do so.
I guess it boils down to: What is your philosophy on magic. My philosophy is to use magic to provide a little momentary escape for people from the world. Make 'em feel like a kid again. I don't do magic to make people like ME. I do it to make them like them.
Sorry I rambled, I just had to clear my head. I hope something in the above makes sense to someone other than me. Thank you for your time.
 
He who laughs, lasts.
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 12:07pm
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Wouldn't it make you seem like a snob to not oblige the request. Again assuming the situation is appropriate.
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Who assumes the situation is appropriate? I reserve the right to make that asumption in the case of my magic.
It is no more "snobbish" than the dancer declining the request to dance for the guests, the chef declining the request to cook for the guests, or the musician declining the offer to musish for the guests.
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Jeb Sherrill
Inner circle
Elsewhere
1158 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 8:32pm
Tom, I often enjoy your analogies to other arts and professions, but this all seems a little out of line. Perhaps asking a magician to do a card trick is more like asking a doctor what the best pain medicine for his headache is.
I'm assuming they're not asking you to set up and do a full-scale performance, but a card trick or a little vanishing scarf for the kids? C'mon, if you really want to destroy the face of magic, that'll do it.
“Magicians are fun people who like to show people tricks.”
I think that's how we're generally seen. Usually requests I've received have been nice and when appropriate I do them. Perhaps you've had really bad experiences I haven't had and if that's true I'm sorry, but it means we're all talking about different situations. Whatever the case, I find it interesting that this general attitude seems to come primarily from pros.
I'm a semi-pro myself, but I'd hate to forget that magic isn't just a profession, it’s a way of life.
Another analogy for you, if a priest was asked for a little advice in a spiritual matter, would he decline and say "come to church Sunday and pay your Tithe first?"
Sable
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I may have in another life.
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Burt Yaroch
Inner circle
Dallas,TX
1097 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 9:54pm
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On 2002-02-10 01:20, Tom Cutts wrote:
Ah ha! So magicians are less respected than Sergeants and Biologists.
We can be brow beaten into doing our profession for free at a moments notice.
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Dude.
(I said I was done here so that's all I'm saying.)
Yakworld.
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 10:13pm
Quote:
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(I said I was done here so that's all I'm saying.)
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I must have missed something. Where did you say you were done here? My oversight.
D'oh 
Tom
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Burt Yaroch
Inner circle
Dallas,TX
1097 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 10:25pm
Oh sorry. My bad.
I typed this HUGE rant about how I shouldn't discuss this any longer because my opinions on the subject are a little too strong  and it kinda focused only one aspect of the discussion blah blah blah and everyone here had some really great perspectives and I didn't want to direct the conversation because of my annoyance (was that a run on sentence?). And since everyone was playing so nice I posted it as a new thread under Food for thought.
But since you got me talking again LET ME SAY THIS...just kiddin'. 
Yakworld.
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 10:33pm
Semianimus,
You are agreeing with me 'perform when appropriate' but denying me the right to choose when is appropriate for my performance. A performance which may be nothing like yours.
Is that correct?
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Burt Yaroch
Inner circle
Dallas,TX
1097 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 10:53pm
Hey, I just got off the phone with my brother. He's a colorectal surgeon and...
Would you believe he's in the adult film industry? (Mom is so proud.)
Yakworld.
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 10, 2002 11:03pm
I don't quite get that one, but I hope it's not the same brother that is the chef. 
I almost passed out trying to get through that run-on sentence.
Tworld
Home of the world famous gloating foat and the  that thinks I'm it's wife.
Had to be careful with that donut line and choice of donut. 
  
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Jeb Sherrill
Inner circle
Elsewhere
1158 Posts
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Posted: Feb 11, 2002 1:07am
[QUOTE]Semianimus,
You are agreeing with me 'perform when appropriate' but denying me the right to choose when is appropriate for my performance. A performance which may be nothing like yours.
Is that correct? [/QUOTE}
No, and I wouldn't "deny" you anything. This is why I said that your experiences may be a different case than the ones I generally think of when asked to perform "a little trick or two". As a full-time professional, I could see where you might be talking about different things. All I'm saying is that not doing a trick for someone just because you weren't being paid was off the mark. And the statements I made in your direction had more to do with your analogies (at least I intended them that way). We could argue over them forever, but I just felt that a magician showing a trick to someone (not a full performance), couldn't, not be compared to a chef cooking you a meal. A chef cooking you a meal would be more like you giving a full performance, etc, etc.
Sable
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I may have in another life.
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Tom Cutts
Staff
Oakland, Ca
4521 Posts
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Posted: Feb 11, 2002 2:56am
Ah, but the asker told the chef "nothin fancy just a quick little something" Sound familliar? Oh please, just a tiny little snack.
There in might lie the rub. Now we are gettin' somewhere.
The world sees chefs, dancers, plumbers, etc as doing complete things that would be out of place just off the cuff.
They see magicians as people who do these quick, disjointed, amusing, little tricks.
That cliché is exactly the image I work to avoid in my performances. Which is exactly why I want to dictate the parameters of my performance.
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Steve Brooks
Manager
Northern California - United States
4199 Posts
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Posted: Feb 11, 2002 1:57pm
This survey that Yak started seemed to turn into a rather heated debate as it were. 
I myself do not have a firm stance on the subject one way or the other. If someone ask's me to perform, and I feel like it, I do. Otherwise, I don't. Simple as that.
I had posted a different post earlier that might have been taken in the wrong light, so I moderated myself and removed it. 
Ain't magic great. 
You can now follow me on
 and 
See you there!
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