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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Ken
A few years ago the music business was totally dominated by big record labels, and almost over night they have all gone bankrupt. These are changing times that we live in, and we must be flexable to stay in the game. A sound marketing strategy today might be a joke tomorrow.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Doug Arden Special user 886 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-26 18:08, Dan Paulus wrote: Dan: I know there are some that do but fortunately, not all agents just answer the phone and take 25%. There are some GOOD ones out there. I for one, market the acts that I book. I do this by advertising their bios and other information about them on a website that is visited by hundreds of thousands of potential customers every year. I also have a database of well over 1000 names, primarily high-end corporate clients, that I provide entertainers for every year. These clients use me as a consultant to help them find just the right entertainment for a particular event. When they call, I ask a few questions about the event and them offer them suitable options in the budget range they have specified. That means if you are an entertainer listed on our website, we "pitch" you to these clients. Some of the entertainers I booked last year derived more than $50,000 worth of work from me. Now, that wasn't their entire income but you can bet they pick up when I call. Also, I'm calling them for these events. They aren't calling me with a client and telling me to book them. I'm giving them 75% of the clients money, not taking 25% from them as you suggested. They didn't have the contract in the first place so how can I take something they never had? I don't think this should be all that hard to understand. There are good and bad agents out there and in case you have noticed, there are also good and bad performers. I work with some excellent entertainers and we have developed a great working relationship based on trust and mutual respect. These relationships have benefited both sides. If you can find one or more GOOD agents and develop a great working realtionship with them, you should notice a big boost in your bottom line. Doug |
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Chester M New user Saskatchewan, Canada 24 Posts |
Interesting, just how can you tell a good one?
Let's say for the sake of the arguement, that the agent is also a performer. What, besides moral ethics, is stoping the agent from apparently representing other "like" performers while still having the power to pick and chose for themself? In effect stipping the cream. It does and can happen, and in what may appear to be legitimate circumstances. This train of thought is in no way ment to convict all agents, just put forth as a question and concern and also to find out what others may think of this type of un-ethical conduct. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Chester
Welcome to the magic Café. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you have 12 agents that call you from time to time you will not care who else one of those agents call. The important thing is that you get your price, and make him want to work with you. Now if you find that you are being played for a fool, call him up and tell him not to call you any more, and move on.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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watcher New user 14 Posts |
Hi Al
Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you fully. Make them aware that you're not interested in working with them is most likely the best plan. But...I'm not sure you are answering my actual thought. I'll re-word it.. What do you and everyone else think of an agent who is also a magician, selling himself before his list of magician performers, and using the performers as backups when his date book is full. Or that same agent booking himself then a better higher paying show comes up, so cancels the first lower paying gig, gives it to one of his list of performers then takes the higher paying gig for himself. I've been performing for over 40 years and do use more than one agent, so the question isn't so much about just any agent, it's about a fellow magician/agent. Is this ethical, fair, wise. Should other performers be made aware? Then as you suggested, just move on. |
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Dan Paulus Veteran user Utah is isolated from the real world by 343 Posts |
Doug,
You certainly are one of the good ones! (Got room for another entertainer on your roster?) What you are describing is what a REAL agent should do. We don't have any REAL agents here in Utah. I've done some business with an agent out of AZ who was more like yourself. He even flew into Utah to check me out before recommending me to his client. My last post was just a little jab aimed at the majority of Utah "agents" I've worked with here in Salt Lake City. Most here will put an ad in the yellow pages, MAYBE have a web site, then sit by the phone and hope a client will call them before/instead of calling an entertainer direct. Magicians are also side lines, along with jugglers and any other "variety entertainer" just in case someone asks about one. They focus on musicians. Here's a couple examples of the type of "agents" here in Utah; I get a phone call from Brunhilda (not her real name), "Dan, I have a client who wants a magician this Sunday and of course I thought of you right away. They only have a $300 budget, but it's a very small party of only 50 people. Plus it is a Sunday show, so you probably don't have any other bookings. If you'll do this for me I'll only take 10% this time since the pay is so low. Can you do this for me?" I agreed. Well... I get there and the party of only 50 is closer to 125. The client tells me that they were so thankful that Brunhilda was able to book me at the last minute, since the originally booked magician canceled on them and, according the Brunhilda, no other magician in Utah will work on a Sunday. Also, I was worth the extra fee she charged... a total of $550. This is just one of soooo many examples I could give of agents in Utah. I've spoke with other entertainers and heard similar stories. I'm very happy to read your post, and know that there are good ones out there. Perhaps we could do business together... I do travel! Dan
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
Aristotle www.danscomedymagic.com |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Watcher
I was welcoming Chester, but I see that you are new too, so welcome to you also. I have had performers call me up and say "I have to do this $200 job next week, so could you please help me out and do this $400 job that just came up". You never know what will be next. Dan Thank God I don't live in Utah. I'm not going to say what I really think, because I will offend those who I'm thinking about, but I'm sure you can read between the lines.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Dan Paulus Veteran user Utah is isolated from the real world by 343 Posts |
Al
I contemplate moving every year! When my kids were younger they would actually break into tears whenever I mentioned Seattle! There are only 4 things keeping me here: 1. Family. My wife has her family here, which I wouldn't mind moving farther away from, but my kids are very close to their cousins. 2. My clients. I've become known enough that better than half my bookings are from business referrals. (Though I would LOVE to re-establish myself in the Puget Sound area.) 3. My kids schools. They're doing well and have many friends. 4. The land. This is one of the most beautiful states I've ever lived in! Not one of those reasons would keep me here by itself, but combined... it's doing the trick, for now. (You know what's going to happen... I'm sacrificing my free will to stay here in Happy Valley just to please my kids, then, after college, one of my boys are going to meet some cutie from Seattle and move there! They better keep a spare room for daddy's loooong visits!)
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
Aristotle www.danscomedymagic.com |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Dan
My children are married, my wife and I are just a happy old couple now, with no restrictions after 40 years, which is why I'm a happy entertainer, and not a grumpy engineer.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Dan Paulus Veteran user Utah is isolated from the real world by 343 Posts |
... Rub it in!
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
Aristotle www.danscomedymagic.com |
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Dan Paulus Veteran user Utah is isolated from the real world by 343 Posts |
Oh wait... let me get you some salt!
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
Aristotle www.danscomedymagic.com |
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Doug Arden Special user 886 Posts |
Dan:
Thanks for the kind words. I am sorry I misunderstood your intial post. I'm sorry to hear you have had such a difficult time with the agents in Utah. Unlike some agencies, we eliminate a lot of potential problems by using only one contract that is signed by both the Performer and Buyer. Everything is totally transparent including the total agreed fee, commission amount, and final amount to the Performer. We feel it's a good foundation on which to build a long-term relationship. I mentioned in some earlier posts the things that we do to market the acts we work with. We are presently working with an SEO firm to further enhance our presence on the Net and bring our acts to even more prospective clients. We are alo in the process of rebranding the comapany promo and will have some exciting new things in the not too distant future. And of course our database continues to expand every year with current and past clients. We are always on the lookout for high quality corporate acts in all parts of Canada and the United States and would be pleased to have a chat with you about the possibility of working together. I'll PM you. Also, feel free to contact David Merry, Murray Hatfield and Kerry Pollock and ask them how unscrupulous and unethical we are. Doug |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
I had a similar experience to Dan Paulus, where my agent was charging the client double my fee, and taking 50% of the profits.
I let it slip the first 2 times, but when I heard he had done it again, I decided to ask him what the client was paying and what commission he was taking from me on the next job. He never called me again. I don't believe the agency is still going, since I haven't seen his advert in the yellow pages or heard anything about him. But it has aways troubled me that I could have lost work in the long-run. I was getting my asking fee, it was just annoying that he was getting sometimes more money than me for picking up the phone, and that's it. I would love to say it was a rare thing, but another agent tried the same tactic, which I caught him on. Then there is the agency scam, where they wanted me to pay them money upfront for promoting me. I walked out of that meeting and the agency vanished into thin air. I have had some work through an agent, but not enough to make it worth while. I get more work through fellow entertainers who pass on their bookings if there already booked and they don't even take commission. Steve |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-27 12:28, Doug Arden wrote: That is the best way to do things Doug. More and more I see that becoming the norm. I always know when an agent sends me a separate agreement for the booking fee so the client doesn't see that transaction, that there are issues with the contract. It really helps to ask the right questions and plenty of them. |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Is there a major difference between an agent and an event planner?
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gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
Just for balance in regard to agents, I both book myself and other acts as well so I guess I am both a performer and agent, I have had a number of acts that I have booked go to the client at the gig and give them a card and say call me direct next year and I will save you money. Obviously, they got no more work from me,
Gil Scott |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Gil: It is a crying shame for any performer to stoop that low when you basically gave them a gig they would not have had otherwise. If I am working for an agent, then I am repsenting them as much as they represent me. They are giving me a show I would not have had and I must respect that. That means NOT giving out my cards or information but gving out the agents instead. That is the right and respectful thing to do. Now I do ask the agent if I can place my stage name on he back of the cards. this way when they get the call the client can ask for me to the agent. I have never had an agent not let me do this.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Jerskin Inner circle 2497 Posts |
It's called buy & sell when an "agent" takes 50% (or whatever). It happens at every level of entertainment. If you agree to do a show for $1000 & the agent gets $3000, well, you got your $1000!
GrEg oTtO
MUNDUS VULT DECIPI |
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MAGICofSeth Regular user 106 Posts |
I have also had the same experience (almost exactly as written by Dan) by a couple of agents. I understand that their job is to make money, and I am their product. It is more of a "relationship" issue for me. I want to trust that the agent is not taking advantage of me or the client. How naive of me I suppose!
We bring a different show to our $1000 gigs than our $3000 gigs. If the agent tells me its one thing, but charges the other- I feel like we could have done better for the client. On that note, we are looking at going on tour. Anybody know any good "touring" agents out there? I understand that they are a different breed than the local agents. Thanks! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I never understood the "we do a different show" theory.
I have one attitude/show. 100% of what I am able to do to the best of my abilities after ANY price is agreed upon.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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