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kippteacher1
New user
8 Posts
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Posted: Jan 8, 2009 5:51pm
I am looking for some suggestions, thoughts, etc on what to say to prospective clients that call for information about the act, but after hearing the price, they say something like, "it is too expensive" or "out of our budget". I don't want to bargin and change the price, but I also don't want to be rude about it either. Is "Sorry, I understand" sufficient?
Thanks!
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thescienceworks
New user
69 Posts
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Posted: Jan 8, 2009 10:03pm
Hey,
When I get that line I make a snap judgment as to whether doing the show at a discounted price would benefit me in any way, and what I might get out of it; or if the organization is one that I support and feel close to (either geographically in my neighborhood, or generally in my heart) and feel like helping out. If neither is the case, I tell that that I understand, and that they can always find a wide range of prices if they shop around, BUT... my prices reflect my 25 years plus teaching and entertaining children, my undergraduate and masters degree in education, and my overall experience in the field of education. "You can probably find someone with less experience at a lower price, since we all start somewhere, but if you do, make sure that you get references and referrals from their other customers". This, I hope, tells them two things. First, my experience is worth the extra money I might charge (although I don't feel that I charge outrageous prices). And second, the reason they called me in the first place is usually because of a referral, and I want them to remember that one of their friends gave them my name, and there was a reason for that.
Does this work? Not very often. But if people have a budget they need to stick to, especially in these times, there is not much you will be able to do to change that number that they are bringing to the table.
Hope this helps,
-Steve
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coachc
Regular user
WV
114 Posts
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Posted: Jan 11, 2009 12:16am
Many times I ask what a person's budget is, and see if I can deliver a watered down shorter version of the type of show they require in their price range, but I learned a long time ago to not sell myself, and my shows, short. If you provide quality entertainment, don't be willing to compromise too much to get a gig. My web site provides potential clients with several versions of the shows I offer, and this seems to cover most of the bases.
WWW.THEMAGICOFMARKCLAYTON.COM
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Skip Way
Inner circle
3452 Posts
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Posted: Jan 11, 2009 9:34am
You can also see out sponsors - companies that might have an interest in offering your show to the facility. For example, I've had dentists sponsor my dental hygiene show to day cares and elementary schools, a local bookstore is a regular sponsor for my magic of reading program and I received a grant for my math show. You might talk the local growers association into sponsoring a fruit & veggie show or the local fire department to support a grant for a fire safety show. I remember years back seeing a "See the U.S.A." magic show sponsored by the local Chevrolet dealers. Use your imagination.
I would not recommend reducing your prices or referring the business to someone less skilled. A bad act can kill future engagements for you and other top performers. Offering a reduced show - if you can do it without affecting the quality or the impact - is a good albeit last ditch alternative.
Proudly Serving the Magic Community in the Old North State
I.B.M. T.V.P. North Carolina
www.Magic-NC.com
I.B.M. Youth/Magic Youth Raleigh
RaleighMagicClub.org
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masterR
New user
31 Posts
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Posted: Jan 14, 2009 4:12pm
What I do is...
I say: "yes I hear what you are saying,but..its to much money comparing to what?"
what ever they say back..always let them know you understand,but comparing to what?...if you understand what I mean...
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Neale Bacon
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1724 Posts
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Posted: Jan 14, 2009 4:37pm
I always ask how much they were planning on spending. Sometimes I can find a beginner who will work for the cheaper rate but on occassion I have warned people they will not get professional entertainment for what they are offering.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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Justin Style
Inner circle
2010 Posts
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Posted: Jan 19, 2009 11:15am
I came up with the NAME YOUR OWN PRICE MAGIC SHOW!
That's right; YOU tell me what you can afford and I'll work out a show that will be approiate for that amount of money.
In these tough times of economic downturn, it's time to give back and help where we can. Just because people are loosing jobs, homes, retirement funds, etc. Their children STILL have a birthday coming up. And that's where we/you/I come in...
Besides the "name your price" show, I also now offer the
Recession Buster $99.00 special.
I offer these to residents in my local area. I scale down the show (BUT..it is still GREAT) and give the parents some little extras, balloons, gifts for the kid(s) and so on.
You can get a lot of great give-away prizes at the dollar store.
These two ideas have worked well for me since I started offering them after last halloween. But it also keeps me working and having a chance at more oppertunities with other parents at the parties.
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tiriri
Loyal user
Ecuador
237 Posts
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Posted: Jan 25, 2009 9:24am
The "Recession Buster $99.00 special" is a little bit more expensive than what people pay for kids shows here in Ecuador! An economist once suggested that the price of a big mac in different countries is a good indicator of the local economy; maybe we should do the same with magic show prices! Ha-ha!
Anyway I do get the same line about the price often and I tell the that there is a local association of magicians that has agreed to set the prices and that lowering my price will be non ethical competition for other magicians. It is the true and it works out fine.
Giovanni.
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jimhlou
Inner circle
2915 Posts
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Posted: Jan 26, 2009 9:42pm
Well, I'm gonna give it a try. My first "recession buster" $100.00 magic show is this Saturday Feb. 7. It's a birthday party for an 8 year old boy. No chair suspension, no liquids, no assistant - just me and a suitcase. We'll see how it goes.
Jim
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kenscott
Inner circle
1828 Posts
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Posted: Jan 26, 2009 9:59pm
I will be interested to see how this turns out. I think lowering your price even if you take things out to make it smaller means it will take you longer to raise your rates again, IMO.
http://www.kenscottproducts.com
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arniemagic1
New user
5 Posts
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Posted: Jan 26, 2009 10:45pm
I offer different types of shows at different prices. I've found that when they have a choice they usually make a choice. (Of course sell the top price show first)
Hi Ken! Arnie here about to open in Shanghai.
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Justin Style
Inner circle
2010 Posts
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Posted: Jan 27, 2009 7:17am
Quote:
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On 2009-01-26 21:59, kenscott wrote:
I will be interested to see how this turns out. I think lowering your price even if you take things out to make it smaller means it will take you longer to raise your rates again, IMO.
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It works GREAT for me...I have NO problem getting high paying corporate shows. And I also get the money I want for adult parties and formal affairs.
I look at it like this, you can go into a restaurant and order different meals at different prices. The food is still the same high quality. I might order a hamburger, you might order the Porterhouse...both will be great.
By offering different packages tells (my) customers that I have many options and surely one that will meet their budget.
It's not like you have just ONE type of program and then are trying to get different rates. THAT will never fly.
Same thing goes for the name your own price...even if you just show up for 15 minutes for $50.00, just to do a few tricks to make people happy, where else can you get that kind of money?!
let's face it, it's obscene, the amount of money we make compared to others. Some people have to take a part time job a few nights per week just to make an extra $50.00.
It's time to give back and do someting to help others.
Just my (25 years experience and) humble opinion.
Good luck!
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Jan 27, 2009 11:26am
I am at a point in my career, where I'm not willing to work for a discounted price. I see a certain value in what I do, and I know my customers see that value, too. The people who don't see that value aren't my customers. Kind of simple, eh?
I have the opinion that some customers are for me, and some are for other entertainers. I don't get phased when I lose a potential booking (I once wrote a post about this topic, "Posturing"... I was re-reading it yesterday over on the KIDabra forum). I just think "Next!" and move on.
And, if I am losing lots of potential bookings, that means I am drawing the wrong types of prospects to me. It is my fault. I need to go out there, and actively market to the right types of prospects who don't have the price objections.
Now, do I treat a prospect rudely if they can't afford me? No way.
If they say it is out of their budget, I ask what their budget is. They tell me, and I offer them the names of some other entertainers. But I also explain that like many things in life, they often get what they pay for.
I also offer to mail them an information kit.
If they decline, I know they weren't sincerely interested.
If they say yes, then I know the interest is there.
BTW, I have competed against performers who were quoting half of what I was quoting, and I still got the booking. The prospect even asked if I would match the other fee, and I explained that I couldn't. Why did I still get the booking? Because of being nice, having good customer relations skills, good sales skills, and offering the best solution for their needs.
- Donald
P.S. There are ethical ways of negotiating, where you aren't really just reducing your fee for no reason. If you are reducing your show by $50, then ask for something in return worth $50 to you. You ask for something from the customer, in value for the discount. Perhaps you reach the agreement that they will write a testimonial letter for you (I get a letter all of the time without offering a discount, but you could place a value on it), or they will get you another show that same day, or that they will book you for several shows over the course of a few months (get the dates up front, and put in the contract that the discount is a condition of a multi-show booking), or that they will give you a certain number of names (referrals), etc.
Also, don't forget the option of bartering. This is where you get paid partially, or fully, in something other than cash. I've been paid part of my fee in movie tickets, book store gift certificates, swim passes, and newspaper advertising, when I've done bartering over the years.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Starrpower
Inner circle
3153 Posts
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Posted: Feb 1, 2009 3:32pm
Quote:
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On 2009-01-25 09:24, tiriri wrote:
Anyway I do get the same line about the price often and I tell the that there is a local association of magicians that has agreed to set the prices and that lowering my price will be non ethical competition for other magicians. It is the true and it works out fine. |
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I see two problem with that. One, I question the legality of that. Is there such a thing as "price fixing" in magic?
Two, what happens when they find others who offer different rates? Will they think you are a liar?
.
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Skip Way
Inner circle
3452 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 1:01pm
Quote:
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On 2009-01-27 07:17, Justin Style wrote:
let's face it, it's obscene, the amount of money we make compared to others. Some people have to take a part time job a few nights per week just to make an extra $50.00.
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I respectfully disagree. If you consider the amount of time, effort and resources that we each put into our acts and divide that into most hourly performance rates, many may find themselves grossly underpaid. On the surface two hundred, five hundred or a thousand dollars for a one hour performance may seem "obscene"...but every penny should be justified by our efforts. $6,000 may seem a lot to pay an orthodontist for sticking bits of metal and wire to teeth, but it took him eight or more years to learn where to stick those bits to do the most good.
Further, discounting one's rate suggests that the performer is not now nor was he ever worthy of the rate. Don't discount - increase your perceived value. Add value to your show to justify your current rate in today's market.
Proudly Serving the Magic Community in the Old North State
I.B.M. T.V.P. North Carolina
www.Magic-NC.com
I.B.M. Youth/Magic Youth Raleigh
RaleighMagicClub.org
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Justin Style
Inner circle
2010 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 3:32pm
Okay...sounds good in theory.
But...
EVERYONE, whether you are in the car, restaurant, fashion or film business is reducing their rate.
A list movie actors are taking less pay.
Five star restaurants are offering price reduced meals.
Broadway is offering package deals.
The list goes on.
Yet...
You (the royal you) a no name nobody local magician is able to pass up work because they won't meet your fee.
Because you think your value is so high and that what you do, so unique that it would be the biggest insult to even think of offering something people can afford.
First of all, magicians are a dime a dozen. Many, most and if not all of them doing the birthday party scene (as well as Vegas, TV and on and on) are doing the same tricks.
But not you. You're different. You are better. You are worth the price you charge and nothing will make you change that.
Teamsters don't make the money magicians make...and they work way harder. Magicians don't make what doctors make because they ain't smart enough to be one (Yeah, I know there are a few doctors here in the game...)
So get off your high horse, stop lying (to us and yourself) and wake up. Times are tough for EVERYBODY. And everybody is making less than they did when it was good.
If you are so limited in the service you offer, then it's YOU who is not making the money. If you’re trying to sell one show for different prices then you’re a schmuck. Try to come up with several types that are budget friendly and available for a diverse group of people.
A steak at Peter Luger can run $300. But you know what, they also serve hamburgers for a lot less.
Gee, I guess I won't eat there, if they lower their prices they can't be that good.
See how stupid your argument is?
I offer several packages.
I have a hospital program, a close-up show, a stage show, an adult only show, a private in home birthday show package, just to mention a few.
If you want to see my world record show, you must pay for that. Yet, if you live in my neighborhood and want me to stop over for a few minutes to entertain your party guests...sure, why not? I travel with skills, not luggage.
That's called giving back.
Not ripping people off with some hack magic that you do.
So sit at home and when you pass up those cheap shows, call me, I'll do them. And I'll also take all the referrals and extra bookings from them...
I love these guys who sit on their high horses…
“Well you won’t be able to get your price back up”…
“People will perceive you to be not that good”…
“I tell them that it’s not possible to lower my price”…
Blah, blah, blah.
Suckers…
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kenscott
Inner circle
1828 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 4:31pm
WOW justin do tell us how you feel!!!
I guess I am one of those suckers. I don't mind working with people. But when a school calls me that I charge 600.00 for one show and now they want 7 shows for 700.00 there is a problem. I guess I will sit on my high horse on this one.
http://www.kenscottproducts.com
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Skip Way
Inner circle
3452 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 4:54pm
"Oh, you are so right, Justin! Bless you and thank you for helping us poor stupid sinners to see the light! Hallelujah! How could we mere mortals have been so blind! Thank you for sharing your incredibly godlike wisdom and flawless insight with us! How marvelous that you can instantly see into everyone's market and divine everyone's strategies! We shall be forever grateful! Oh, praise be! I can see the light! Blah, Blah, Blah..."
Talk about high horses...
Proudly Serving the Magic Community in the Old North State
I.B.M. T.V.P. North Carolina
www.Magic-NC.com
I.B.M. Youth/Magic Youth Raleigh
RaleighMagicClub.org
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Neale Bacon
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1724 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 5:01pm
Ken,
I have to agree with you. I have different types of shows, and some cost more thasn others (birthday versus christmas party for example), but none are ever discounted.
I guess I will continue to make my obscene amounts of money.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 5:09pm
Hi Justin -
You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
But, please let everyone charge whatever they want. And how about dropping the judgemental attitude?
You have no idea how business is for others. Some aren't struggling.
You are assuming that other people are sitting at home, out of work, because their fees are higher than yours (or too high period).
If a performer is struggling for work, it could be the "price" (or, what a customer sees as value vs. cost, which is really a different issue).
However, many other things contribute to a successful sale and the number of shows a performer does, aside from "price"... other things such as ability to demonstrate they can meet the customer's needs / wants / desires, quality of salesmanship, rapport, friendliness, trust, perceived value, word of mouth credibility, amount of marketing / lead generation, their ability to deliver on what they promise and build good word of mouth (referrals) and repeat business with past customers, evidence that their customers are satisfied at this price level, etc.
If a performer is struggling, they need to analyze for themselves what their specific problem is. To assume that every problem is an issue of "price", is like trying to fix every repair in your house or with your car, with a hammer, when other tools exist in the toolbox.
And again, some performers aren't struggling because they understand the other elements necessary to make their business work.
- Donald
P.S. If the primary reason that most of your customers hire you is because of the price, then you have a big problem. Someone can always offer a lower price.
If price ruled, all that would exist would be the least expensive restaurants, the least expensive cars, and the least expensive homes. However, items and services with middle and higher prices do exist. Think about why that is, and how you can adapt it to your service business.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Justin Style
Inner circle
2010 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 6:58pm
Who said anything about "struggling"? I work constantly. I'm a full time performing magician in NYC. I certainly don't depend on my living by working birthday parties...
However -
Donald Trump is hurting. Atlantic City, Vegas, Branson are all seeing revenue drop - even record numbers. Wall Street, corporate American and business everywhere is down. But you guys are doing great.
Yeah...okay.
Stop going to the same frat parties as Michael Phelps... : smoke:
Rock on!
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Neale Bacon
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1724 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 7:22pm
It is a fact that even in difficult economic times, people will spend money on their kids - hence why children's performers for the most part are doing just fine.
You are working full time as a magician - that's great. What venue do you do because you sure seem to have a disdain for children's performers. "I certainly don't depend on my living by working birthday parties... "
Makes me wonder why you would post in this section, but hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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todd75
Inner circle
1277 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 8:12pm
Not EVERYONE is hurting! I for one booked more shows in January than I ever have for the beginning of the year. The rest of year is looking pretty darn good too. I have yet lowered my prices!
The problem with lowering your price is that it can easily become, "how low will this guy really go?" If your price is usually $500.00 and the client wants a deal for $300.00 and you take the deal, you have actually communicated to them that your fee of $500.00 really was too high and you end up sounding like you are desperate.
I, like Ken and others will "work with people" as long as they are not trying to take advantage of me.
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Feb 2, 2009 8:48pm
Quote:
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On 2009-02-02 18:58, Justin Style wrote:
Donald Trump is hurting. Atlantic City, Vegas, Branson are all seeing revenue drop - even record numbers. Wall Street, corporate American and business everywhere is down. But you guys are doing great.
Yeah...okay.
Stop going to the same frat parties as Michael Phelps... : smoke:
Rock on!
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Why is it that when some people say they are doing ok, they get accused of being dishonest / stretching facts (aka called a liar), or accused of being on something?
Can't some people have a different perspective / experience / life story than you, and that still be ok?
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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todd75
Inner circle
1277 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 9:57am
One more thing to really consider when "dropping your fee" is called R-E-S-P-E-C-T
I very much beleive that if you stick to your grounds and don't lower your fee, you gain more respect. If you take what you can get, you almost guarantee yourself no respect at all when you arrive. People (clients) respect you based on the amount they are paying you.
I once heard Steve Taylor say, "charge the client $500.00 and you'll unload your own car, charge them $1500.00 and they will unload it for you." How true!
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 10:01am
That's true, as I've had it happen lots.
Even for other markets. Even for birthday parties!
For $300 birthdays, I have a lot of customers who help me pack in my equipment, and help me bring it back out afterwards.
I don't remember that happening when I used to charge less ($100-$150 range).
There's also a higher level of gratitude that seems to accompany the respect.
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Neale Bacon
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1724 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 1:40pm
Again with the put down terms like toy demonstrator...
Maybe I don't have awards out the backside (there's an endearing image) but I know that I have created memories for thousands of children and families over the past 25+ years.
I have enjoyed seeing the laughter and smiles on the faces of children, their parents and grandparents and have kids stop me on the street because they remember seeing me at a local event.
I make a living, but more importantly to me, I have a good life.
I don't have to make myself feel better by waving accomplishments in front of everyone or putting down others for theirs.
I also personally know performers who are all that you claim to be and more but the one thing they are that you don't seem to be, is that they are supportive of those who may not have reached their stage yet.
I belong to Lions International and part of our Code of Ethics is that it is not neccessary to build up our business by tearing down someone elses.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 1:41pm
It's a shame we can't discuss a topic (reducing fees / keeping them the same / etc.) But instead, some want to talk about who they are, or suggest how bad others are.
Let's talk about the strength and weaknesses of the subject, not about ourselves or others.
When people attack others as a part of their strategy to defend a position, it sometimes implies they don't have enough evidence or rationale to defend their position. Can you please defend your position without the put downs?
- Donald
P.S. I offer several price points (different packages) for many of my shows. However, my lowest package is priced at $225 for a birthday show. I have a couple of other birthday packages as well, for higher prices. For me, I choose not to go lower than that, because of the value I place on my service. Others place a higher or lower value on their service, in addition to the other factors that determine a show fee.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Skip Way
Inner circle
3452 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 1:55pm
Why are you guys continuing to waste your breath on this fool? He doesn't want a rational discussion. He wants to reinforce his enormous ego at your expense. Let him find his fix elsewhere; we have businesses to run.
Proudly Serving the Magic Community in the Old North State
I.B.M. T.V.P. North Carolina
www.Magic-NC.com
I.B.M. Youth/Magic Youth Raleigh
RaleighMagicClub.org
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Donald Dunphy
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
6015 Posts
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Posted: Feb 3, 2009 1:59pm
Skip chimed in before I edited one part of my last post.
At the beginning of my "P.S.", I wanted to comment that no one was disagreeing about the idea of offering a variety of options at a range of prices. However, with certain shows, in certain markets, there isn't a variety of options. It's this show at this price.
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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