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Waterloophai
Special user
Belgium
662 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 4:37am
Card tricks are my hobby for more than 40 years. The last two years I do nothing else than searching for the "Holy Grail" (the perfect acaan). You may say it has become an obsession and I think I am beginning to come very close to my goal.
One of the conditions for a 99,99% perfect acaan (the 100% perfect acaan doesn't exist, apart from 1 in 52 occasions statistictly) is that it is performed with a regular deck (of course stacked and memorized) and without any gaf card or locators.
I challenge everybody to repeat the second trick exactly as seen on the video for me.It is not possible. There must be parts that are not filmed.
By the way, Noobini wrote wise words a few posts ago in this thread.
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Waterloophai
Special user
Belgium
662 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 5:01am
I just sent an email to Penguin Magic:
"""""""""
Hallo,
I am Danny Crauwels from Belgium. I saw your advert for Mnemonica by Juan Tamariz (Book) and watched the demo movie on the same webpage.
I agree that Mnemonica is a fantastic book that is worth bying but…. the second effect on the movie is, in my humble opinion, misleading.
I challenge everybody to perform the SECOND trick on the movie for me in the same circomstances as showed in the movie. It is not possible !
There are cuts are parts that are not filmed.
No offence, just making a remark that is ment positively.
Greetings from Belgium,
Danny
"""""""""""""
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The.Amazing.Boy
Loyal user
France
251 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 5:15am
Thanks to all of you, I think you got my point. and waterloophai, I'm interested in the replies you'll get ! post them here if possible.
cohiba : what you noticed is interesting, I also noticed that in some perfomances of acaan the performer seems relieved at the end, maybe due to circumstances he used to create the effect. berglas never shoes that in what I saw, doing this often would have trained him to control his reactions I guess.
For those who are looking for a peek for the trick page 82 of mnemonica I think I have a good one, very natural, combined with a type of pass that really looks like you're doing nothing but giving the cards to the spectator. Can I post it here ? (I don't exactly know the rules about that) or if anyone is interested just PM me !
Be Cool 
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 10:39am
Count, I am not saying that the video presentation is not doctored. I'm saying that at the point he riffles the deck at 2:22 is where 'the move' would normally happen. They obviously have the card and number arranged ahead of time.
I'm not defending the video--it's obviously doctored to show the cleanest possible verison of the effect. But I am saying you can do a clean version of ACAAN where the spectator would swear that it happened just like on the video.
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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The.Amazing.Boy
Loyal user
France
251 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 10:59am
Yes you're right with that, but there is always a hanky panky thing around live performances and filmed performances. some magicians feel right to edit their videos because it "must" look like what an audience will remember and not like the actual performance. I really don't know what to think here since it looks logic but tricky at the same time.
Be Cool
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Cohiba
Special user
Michigan
660 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 11:02am
My belief is that they just had the spectators (Penguin employees) give the card and number that he was prepared for. Like Steven said, a well performed ACAAN will look almost identical to this - it should look the exactly that way to a lay person - ALMOST the same to a magician.
My observation earlier about the performer's reaction was simply that his reaction wasn't the same at the end of both tricks, which seemed to be a result of the "doctoring". The first trick he actually performed as anyone could perform it (no doctoring), and he seemed satisfied that he did it well. After the second trick, I believe the spectators were "in" on it, and so the performer didn't really do anything - he was playing to the camera. His reaction didn't seem to have the same satisfaction, because he knew he was cheating.
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The.Amazing.Boy
Loyal user
France
251 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 11:40am
Yes, I thought a bit of that too when thinking of the doctoring. so my first understanding of your point was something else.
anyway, I'm learning mnemonica now. Using the visual method, old deck in the left hand, a bunch of markers in the right. thanks Tamariz !
Be Cool
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 12:54pm
Cohiba, I'm certain you are correct that the card and number were prearranged. And after watching it again I had to laugh because your observation was right on--he definitely was looking guilty.
Amazing Boy brings up a good point about videos in general. I think that if a magician is trying to get business for themselves then edited video footage is fine because the audience for the videos are laypeople.
When trying to sell books and DVDs, though, retailers should be held to a higher standard. I don't think that complete unedited footage is required for a given effect, especially if that footage might expose the method upon repeated viewings. However, and this is especially true of one trick DVDs, demos are so edited that they don't accurately reflect the nature of the effect.
I don't know how to delineate what the line should be, but I do know that many of the demos cross it. And they do so to make the trick look more impossible than it really is, rather than to just protect the method.
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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The Amazing Noobini
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway
1658 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 2:55pm
It's kind of odd to me that a book like Mnemonica would inspire the need to make a video at all. It kind of cheapens it. It's not exactly hipster street magic territory anyway. You have to be a pretty big nerd to read all of that book. As I said... I am reading it now.
A thorough description I understand, but a demo video? It's not a trick after all. Maybe it's just odd to me because nobody demos anything in my country, except really cheesy TV shop type product like knives you never have to sharpen and battery operated fishing lures.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
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The.Amazing.Boy
Loyal user
France
251 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 4:00pm
To continue steven's point : we then enter the commercial view of magic, which seems to sell the magic and not the trick itself, which is kind of odd because we buy the trick, not the magic. one thing is sure and must be remembered to some shops : the magic is in the performer's hands, not in the trick we buy.
also, because this line is often crossed, we, performers comment things on forums like the magic café for a non profit issue, for the safety of our magic. and this is the good thing to do. in fact, I think things don't really need to be changed, it is just our part to be wise and think twice, as magicians should always do. but on the other hand, shops have to sell their products, don't they ? I would probably be tempted to do the same if I was running a shop.
for noobini's point :
It may be good, still, to do a video. for exemple, the corinda's demo video is just a talk by oz pearlman, no trick is done. Just the aura of the book is shown. So they could have done the same thing for mnemonica ! you're right, their demo is kind of stupid, as you said, this is not "a trick". and funny thing I just noticed : they show a few seconds our dear fellow performer Juan Tamariz. why the hell did they not show a performance from him instead of doing a doctored misleading demo ? Tamariz's performances shows easily how good his book is. *** penguin !
Be Cool
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The Amazing Noobini
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway
1658 Posts
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Posted: Jul 27, 2009 4:22pm
Yes, I agree. Very well said all of it!
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
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helder
Special user
538 Posts
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Posted: Dec 21, 2011 8:08pm
I love this routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocxXHmp2Zzk&feature=related I'm already studying it. What's the best resource for the classic force in a fan?
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David Rhodes
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 4:14am
As far as mentalism using a stacked deck goes I cannot think of many tricks that are stack dependant. I am meaning pure mentalism rather than mental magic.
A few things I have played with and like a lot are;
Simple divination type effects
Diapola by paul vigil (I know his effect is impromptu but it is even better when mixed with a stacked deck.)
Memory Jumble
Total memory (the 31 card version in mnemonica.)
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David Rhodes
Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: Dec 29, 2011 4:14am
As far as mentalism using a stacked deck goes I cannot think of many tricks that are stack dependant. I am meaning pure mentalism rather than mental magic.
A few things I have played with and like a lot are;
Simple divination type effects
Diapola by paul vigil (I know his effect is impromptu but it is even better when mixed with a stacked deck.)
Memory Jumble
Total memory (the 31 card version in mnemonica.)
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magician102
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Dec 30, 2011 12:22am
I must concur with the advice previously given that the revelation of any one card.
But from a mentalism perspective - the Aaronson "invisible deck" routine that can be done with Tamariz's stack is also phenomenal.
-Raahul
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