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Brian Lehr
Inner circle
Edmonton, Canada
1590 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 6:24pm
Have any of you ever done an effect for children, and afterwards said "I will never ever do that for children again!"?
One in particular that I can recall is the bitten and restored coin. After the show, I saw a little guy putting a penny in his mouth to try and bite it in half!
Live and learn.
Brian
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Mago Mai
Elite user
Venezuela
484 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 7:24pm
Brian:
I got a call on the phone from a kid that watched me performing the Dove pan on a T.V. special. He told me that he couldn't remember which magic words I used to make, from the pieces of paper on fire, a nice Dove.
He told me he had set the papers on fire once and he couldn't make the magic trick to work. I had to explain him that he wasn't going to be able to do that effect.
The fire pan to appear a Dove is out of my act.
I will never do it again.
Mago Mai
I invite all of you to share some of my magic on videos.Please, CLICK HERE
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Brian Lehr
Inner circle
Edmonton, Canada
1590 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 7:41pm
If it wasn't so scary, it would be funny! :-)
I've been pondering whether or not to use my razor blade swallowing trick at my next birthday party. 
Brian
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Jewls
Veteran user
Michigan-USA
359 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 8:29pm
Yep, just before you swallow a balloon!
Jewls
www.Jewlstheclown.com
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leonard
Regular user
Michigan
107 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 9:22pm
I was absent-mindedly practicing "rope through the neck," when a visiting toddler saw me. I will never make that mistake again. His mother will never let me live it down.
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Jim Tighe
Veteran user
West Virginia
361 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2003 11:37pm
One time I was doing a 6 year old birthday party around Halloween and thought it would be thematic to perform Down for the Count (a paddle trick by Mike Close). At the conclusion to the trick one child started crying with fright and the birthday child ran and jumped on his mother's lap.
Fortunately they made a quick recovery and the rest of the show went well but I felt absolutely awful at the time. The parents were apologizing for their child, saying "he scares easily" but I knew I had exercised bad judgment.
Jim T.
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SimplyMagic
New user
17 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2003 12:25am
I did the plunger on the head routine and the child cried. Doc Hilford told me in a conversation that magic that embarrasses the participant makes Magicians look bad.
I will never again do that for children or adults. Our society has lost some notches in the respect for others area and I think we should all work in getting that back!!
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gocall911
Loyal user
Salem, VA
246 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2003 12:30am
I was doing stuff with sponge balls for a 2 year old and did the bit where you eat one of the balls. Well the next time I handed the ball to him he shoved it in his mouth! I wouldn't have been doing magic for a 2 year old any way except he is in the family so I decided I would (and was asked to as well). The rest of the magic he loved by the way!
"Use your head." ~Dai Vernon~
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Frank Tougas
Inner circle
Minneapolis, MN
1712 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2003 12:42am
This did not happen as a magician but in my work as a therapist. I was doing some grief work in a children's group in the day treatment center I was working in at the time.
My client was a young man who had lost his father. As a way of closure (psychobabble word for ending) I had him write a letter to his father, which I then carefully transferred to a sheet of flash paper.
In a ceremony I, the child and the rest of the group went outside and "sent" the letter.
The moment was touching and full of positive metaphor. The next day another child who had witnesed the ceremony stated he had tried several times to ignite one of those dryer sheets like me, but he couldn't get it to burn!
I learned a lot and gave thanks dryer sheets were not flamable.
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Emazdad
Inner circle
Plymouth UK
1954 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2003 2:24am
Many years ago while serving in the Royal Navy I was posted to Bermuda, ~(oops sorry I've dropped a name) I did the vanishing a coin in your arm trick to the kids that lived there. It wasn't during a show, this was before I became a magician. The upshot was that I nearly got lynched by all the mum's as the kids went home and spent hours rubbing coins on there arms to try and make them disappear. The end result was a load of kids with long friction burns up their arms.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com
"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"
Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
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Shadow Dancer
New user
Melbourne, Australia
61 Posts
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Posted: Jun 6, 2003 8:14am
Never do tricks which are better versions of tricks you get from toy shops. I now have to be carefull as toy shops are getting way cool tricks nowadays!
'The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.'
AlbertEinstein
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m.ruetz
Veteran user
Southern California, USA
374 Posts
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Posted: Jun 6, 2003 10:05am
With respect to use of fire, I often do the dove pan with a safety warning stating I am an adult and only adults can use matches. Not sure what other think about this if the proper warnings are given. I also used to do the Soo Fire Cracker, maybe not a good idea as it would often make the mom for the kid's party extremely nervous wondering why I decided to light an explosive device in her living room. Even though I think they knew it is isn't real I've often seen a bit of panic on their faces.
MagicGizmo: Magic Articles, Classifieds, Videos, and more
http://magicgizmo.com
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magicgeorge
Inner circle
Belfast
3990 Posts
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Posted: Jun 6, 2003 1:06pm
As Shadow quite rightly points out there are a lot of cheaper versions of tricks now sold in toy shops. I have even seen a (shock horror) tt presented as a toy style magic trick.
I don't think you should worry about the kids having a toy version of your trick. There are so many out there a lot of the principles of magic are covered in these toy tricks. The thing is if a kid has bought a trick such as this they will either have learned to do the trick in which case they will probably have read the " don't give out secrets" bit and you can subtly point out that they won't want to spoil the trick for themselves. Or they haven't learned it at all and you'll fool them with it anyhow. Quite often a child has come up after a show to show me a trick they have and you can usually completely flumex them with their own apparatus.
Magician Belfast
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JamesinLA
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3209 Posts
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Posted: Jun 6, 2003 3:13pm
Okay, here's a story from my past: I'm a 14 year old magician doing a birthday party. Houdini was my hero as a kid. I wanted to put on good shows using the best magic possible. So who represents the best magic in my 14 year old mind? Houdini. I had in my act at that time, for that reason, the swallowing needle trick.
Can you believe I did that at a kid's b-day party? Of course, I was a kid myself and it was quite a while ago. I pulled the needles out of my mouth, magically threaded, ta-da! The mother, I could tell, didn't like it and didn't like that I had put my hands in my mouth. Which I agree with.
At least I didn't do the threaded razor blades!
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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oagwood
Veteran user
Concord, CA
371 Posts
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Posted: Jun 7, 2003 3:13am
Lets see, I thought that since I got a great reaction from adults that kids would dig paper balls over the head. I highly recomend trying this if you haven't already. Nature's little truthsayers will not tolerate such idiotic behavior, and they will let you know. So paper balls over the head is out.
Oh, one other great story is when I had the birthday kids father come on up to help with the french arm chopper. Kids like chopped arms right? And fire? And razors? Of course they do, so I have little juniors dad up there and when I chop off his arm, little junior bursts into tears. Not some little wimper either, burst into tears. Tough one to difuse, but I managed and still got paid.
Never again
oliver
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Jeff Haas
Special user
764 Posts
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Posted: Jun 10, 2003 2:06pm
For dove pans, I dropped fire years ago. Call what you're doing "magic cooking" and put a bunch of silly ingredients into the pan, cover it, wave a wand and have them transform into edible goodies. No fire required.
Examples...
- Packet of sugar (unopened!) + aluminum foil = Hershey's Kisses
- Packet of sugar + colored ribbons (green, blue, orange, etc.) = gummy worms
- For Christmas, sugar + red and white ribbons = candy canes.
Jeff
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harris
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
6109 Posts
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Posted: Jun 10, 2003 2:28pm
In the 70's and 80's I used to "eat" fire in my festival shows.
I thought about bringing it back to the Nearly Normal Programs when a friend told me to visit the burn unit first. She is a nurse.
Although some use fire with great effect and caveats and hopefully lots of insurance,
I choose not to even use my fire coin purse or flash paper any more.
Harris Deutsch
Laughologist and
2002 Jackson County, Substance Abuse Prevention Specialist of the Year
Harris Deutsch
aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Jan 4, 2004 11:50pm
Quote:
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On 2003-06-06 10:05, m.ruetz wrote:
With respect to use of fire, I often do the dove pan with a safety warning stating I am an adult and only adults can use matches. Not sure what other think about this if the proper warnings are given. I also used to do the Soo Fire Cracker, maybe not a good idea as it would often make the mom for the kid's party extremely nervous wondering why I decided to light an explosive device in her living room. Even though I think they knew it is isn't real I've often seen a bit of panic on their faces.
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I started to do the Ching Soo firecracker at a kid's show once. Before the show, I explained to the child that he was to take the firecracker and put it in the tube. He said that he wouldn't do it. I explained that it wasn't a real firecracker. He still refused. So I said, "You know, you are right. It's a stupid trick, anyway. Kids shouldn't play with firecrackers."
I sold it to a collector. Now all three of us are happy!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Rob Johnston
Inner circle
Utah
2060 Posts
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Posted: Jan 5, 2004 2:23am
I have had the same situation with my folding quarter. I have withheld performing that trick for younger children. I don't want some kid perishing trying to be like me.
Good post.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Peter Marucci
Inner circle
5388 Posts
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Posted: Jan 5, 2004 6:28am
I open every kids' show with the Miser's Dream.
And for a long time, I always talked of "pulling a coin out of your ear" until another magician mentioned that, by saying that, it implies the coin was there in the first place and that might lead even just one child to attempt the trick by jamming a coin in his or her ear.
Bad!
So now, while I still do the trick, I refer to "pulling a coin from BEHIND your ear".
This is a very valuable thread to those who heed the advice given in the variety of posts here.
Trouble is, probably, that the very people who need the help of this thread are the ones who think they are doing everything perfectly, while those who ARE doing everything right are reading or posting here!
BTW, SimplyMagic is dead accurate: It's just as damaging to embarrass a child as it is to physically harm one (or create an atmosphere where that can happen).
When you do a show, you should be in control and the audience should be treated like guests in your home (the performing area). That means never, ever embarrass, humiliate, or insult an audience member.
Ever.
For any reason.
Period.
(Not an opinion; a fact!)
cheers,
Peter Marucci
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El_Lamo
Special user
Canada
588 Posts
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Posted: Jan 5, 2004 7:33am
Brian,
I use the bitten and restored quarter in my routine. I use it right after I do Super Frog. (Thanks again everyone for your help)
It is a simple routine, but it was a way to do some magic with the coin without having it my mouth.
I have pmed you with the details. I thought I had before but the full text was here so I edited it because I was describing the workings of the coin.
Cheers - El Lamo
P.S. I used to have a collapsing knife that I put away because I realized kids might try playing with a real knife.
Life is a system of circumstance presented coincidently in an illusory way.
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magic4u02
Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
14875 Posts
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Posted: Jan 5, 2004 8:52am
Peter:
Amen brother. That is so 100% correct. Whenever you have someone on stage with you, they should be treated as a guest in your own home. Never humiliate them for cheap laughs. treat them with respect and kindness and they will love you forever.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kyleandkellymagic.com
Entertainers Product Site
http://kpmagicproducts.com
Join Our Facebook Fan Page at
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Leo B. Domapias
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Jan 5, 2004 7:52pm
Quote:
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On 2004-01-05 08:52, magic4u02 wrote:
Peter:
treat them with respect and kindness and they will love you forever.
Kyle
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…And the audience will go to sleep.
I know what you mean, Kyle, but you make it sound as if you’re in a Nobel Peace prize awarding ceremony instead of in a magic show. 
Needless to say (still I'll say it), the “treat your volunteers with respect and kindness” principle is not cast in stone. How one handles a volunteer assistant depends largely on the performing style of the magician, the material he is performing and the personality of the assitant.
For me, I strive to find a balance between “respect” and “onstage mischievousness”. I think there’s a middle ground---an inoffensive way of interacting with volunteers that does not kill the playfulness of the moment.
I agree with the conventional wisdom that it’s a no-no to insult audience volunteers brought on-stage. On the other hand, I believe it’s equally a no-no to handle them gingerly as if they have HIV, or with utter reverence as if they are a visiting monarch. Doing so is a sure-fire formula to spoil the humor that I want to develop at that moment.
For this matter, I don’t treat volunteers onstage as my guests. We are attending the same party; we are, therefore, co-equal partygoers. We laugh together, we exude playfulness together, and we have fun together, with the rest of the audience watching appreciatively.
Toward this end, I create an atmosphere of good-humored irreverence on the stage. There’s a good dose of teasing, good-natured ribbing, and repartees. Sometimes the jokes are on me, and sometimes the jokes are on the assistant(s).
I have not yet perfected this difficult skill. You should see how the jokes bomb some of the time, and how pale I become when the attempts at humor are met with deafening silence. But for the masters of this craft, they are a joy to watch, not solely for their magic but for their skillful audience management techniques.
The most memorable examples that comes to mind is Blackstone Jr.’s “The Longest Card Trick”, where he brings seven to eight persons onstage, does a card trick while somebody ties him up, steals a watch from one of the volunteers and explains loudly to another volunteer (treating him as if he were deaf) what’s going on. It’s 10 minutes of fun, laughter and magic.
Michael Finney’s “Cut and Restored Rope”, where he stands behind a beautiful lady in the act of restoring the rope. The lady keeps giggling and Finney says, “I advise you, Ma’am, not to move like that while I’m standing behind you.” It’s a remark that elicits more laughter from her.
Mark Kornhauser’s “Card Sword Routine”, where he blindfolds the lady volunteer and himself, then, in trying to reach for her hand, he mimes as if intends to grope her.
Joe Bauer’s ventriloquism act, where he uses a fat lady’s butt as the puppet singing the Sound of Music’s “Doe a deer a female deer…” This is one bold routine I wouldn’t dream of doing even in my dream (that’s two “dreams” in one sentence, but who cares?). Still, it’s a joy to watch Joe Bauer get away with it in the din of laughter.
Ben Benjay
Manila, Philippines
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magic4u02
Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
14875 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 9:46am
Ben:
hehehe I hear ya there and sorry if it came across like that. I just meant that too many people really treat their assistant very poorly. They use them for laughs without ever saying thank you for being a good sport.
They invite them on stage without ever even asking them their names and saying thanks for coming up to help me. It is all these little things I see so many performers careless of not doing.
I certainly am not suggesting that you can not have fun with your assistant while they are up on stage. Heck I get a lot of laughs and comedy and fun out of the antics between the assistant and myself all the time. But, I also still remember to let them know I appreciate them for allowing me to have fun with them.
"We are attending the same party; we are, therefore, co-equal partygoers. We laugh together, we exude playfulness together, and we have fun together, with the rest of the audience watching appreciatively."
I do not agree with this 100%. I understand what your getting at but when you are at the party or at the event, it is made very clear that you are the performer and the entertainer and THEY are the party guests. They are there to have fun and party. You are there to make sure they have a good time through the use of entertainment. hat is not to say that you both can not have a lot of fun together, but their is a difference.
You are indeed there to have fun and to play together but I would never consider myself as an equal party-goer. I was hired to be there not invited as one of their guests.
I totally agree with you that you do not have to handle or treat them like fine china that may break if your not careful. My main point is just in showing respect to them. Use them for laughs, joke around, have fun on stage, but thank them and make sure they know that you appreciated them helping you.
After all it is the audience that makes the magician. Without them we are nothing.
Blackstone Jr. is a perfect example. He has fun with his audience while on stage but he also treats them well and afterwards thanks each of them for coming up and helping him. They know that they are appreciated.
Hope I made my point a little better. Did not intend to make it look like I place them under a glass box and worship their presence. hehehe
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kyleandkellymagic.com
Entertainers Product Site
http://kpmagicproducts.com
Join Our Facebook Fan Page at
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Peter Marucci
Inner circle
5388 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 11:11am
Ben Benjay writes: ". . . the “treat your volunteers with respect and kindness” principle is not cast in stone."
Oh yes it is!
And those who cross the line, pay for it BIG TIME.
Sure, there's no reason to not have a comedic time with the volunteer -- as long as he or she is enjoying his/herself.
But the performer and the volunteer are NOT co-equal. For one thing, the performer has a clear advantage in that he knows what's going to happen (or should know).
Sure, you can get a laugh by pretending someone has a hearing problem, or making fun of their physical appearance, or feigning groping them (if they are of the opposite sex) or otherwise humiliating them.
But, then, it was only a few hundred years ago that you could get a laugh out of an audience by public torture, the stocks, burning people at the stake, bull- and bear-baiting, and on and on.
I would hope that we have become a little more civilized since then.
But maybe not.
cheers,
Peter Marucci
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magic4u02
Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
14875 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 12:20pm
Peter:
Amen to that brother. I agree 100% and my audiences thank me for it.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kyleandkellymagic.com
Entertainers Product Site
http://kpmagicproducts.com
Join Our Facebook Fan Page at
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Neale Bacon
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1723 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 12:35pm
Luckily I haven't had the experience myself, but was at a company picnic as a clown once and saw the magician they had do threaded razor blades for his kids show.
Yikes! 
As to treating and audience with respect, I agree with Peter that this IS chiseled in stone. However, there is nothing that says you cannot have fun and tease them a bit. I always kibitz with my volunteers but I always treat them with respect.
It is when you embarass or "mess up" a volunteer. THAT is disrespectful.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
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treysdaddy
New user
92 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 1:10pm
Thank you guys for this topic. I never thought of the imitative behavior issue with kids and the small amount of fire for the magic cooking routine with a dove pan.
In my younger days I managed a waterpark that brought in a group of high divers whose show climaxed with a flaming diver. We got a call from a mom that just stopped her son from trying that in their back yard.
Thanks again, I know your collective wisdom is helping a lot of people.
Bill
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magic4u02
Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
14875 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 2:15pm
Even when I do the dove pan. I have always just used imagination and imaginary matches. Even though I am imagining it with the kids, I always still tell the to always have mom and dad help them. The parents appreciate the lessons I tell the kids.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kyleandkellymagic.com
Entertainers Product Site
http://kpmagicproducts.com
Join Our Facebook Fan Page at
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Mikael Eriksson
Special user
Sweden
971 Posts
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Posted: Jan 6, 2004 3:15pm
I'll tell you about the worst mistakes I have done in magic. Both occurred when I was pretty new to magic, and not during a show.
There is a trick called "My girlfriend". It's a trick where a semi clothed beautiful woman turns into a semi clothed ugly/woman. I used to carry it around everywhere, showing it to everyone. At one point a boy aged around 10, met me on the street, and wanted to see some magic. Before I had done anything, he said something like this:
"Do that thing with the naked chick!"
Then it occurred to me that apparently I had at some time showed him that trick, although I had no memory of it. It also occurred to me that the woman in the picture was half naked. I had never thought about it that way, to me it was just a funny trick, with a beautiful woman changing to an ugly woman. I never reflected that she had so little clothes on. I realized that it might not be a great thing to do to show pictures of half naked people to 10 year olds 
The other thing was much worse. It was after a childrens show, and the father of the birthday child was talking with me, and an older sister, about 9 years old was there too. I wanted to do some extra things for them, and I had recently learned how to pull a silk through a t-shirt. I had never done it before, and I was very nervous, so I turned to the girl instead of the father:
"Let me show you something funny!"
I pushed the silk into my fist, and grabbed hold of her t-shirt, which turned out to be a VERY tight t-shirt, that was also too short, leaving her belly bare (in Sweden they are called "belly-shirts" and are a constant debate topic among parents if they are ok for children to wear or not). When I had grabbed her belly-shirt I put my fist under it since it was so short and tight, I had to put my fist up very high under the shirt, to hide it. I then pulled the silk through her shirt. All this happened so fast that I didn't react until it was too late. I thought:
"Oh no! How scary for her! A foreign man put his hand under her shirt..."
I felt so stupid, afraid I had traumatized her. I showed them some more things, and the father and I talked. This early in my carrier I didn't have a car, and after a while, he was going to drive me back home. When we got into the car, I was close to tears from my mistake, and said to him:
"I must REALLY apologize..."
He didn't understand what I was talking about.
I told him about my mistake, and my fear of his daughter feeling violated. He said:
"No no, I didn't think about anything like that at all. Things like that are so hyped up through the media!"
He said he didn't think his daughter felt violated either.
What I learned from this is that if you don't think about what you do BEFORE, it's very easy to get into trouble...
I can also see that when those two things happened I was focused mostly on showing the trick, and who I showed it to or used as an assistant was less important. And I hadn't thought much about if the trick was tasteful either.
I guess no one here has made such a big mistake anytime as I did in the last story, right?
Mikael
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