I would like to do this routine but I have a couple of concerns. I would appreciate some advice.

1) Is it necessary to use envelopes?
2) Does having the spectators choose some cards make the routine drag? Is it better to make three cards go across and not worrya bout them being chosen cards?
3) The routine uses a tray to have the cards counted onto, is it better to just have them counted onto my hand?

Would greatly appreciate some tips on this or suggestions for routines.

Thank you!

Answers:

1. Yes, for this routine as it is built. There are possibly other options, but traditionally, this is the method.

2. Tough question. I have done the cards across from Royal Road with great success. However, this is a close-up/parlour routine. Zen style routine would also play for a stage. I will note, that Mac King does a cards across without having cards selected and no envelopes, which is great. So it really depends on what you are trying to get across. (no pun intended)

One option for a cards across that uses a selected card and no envelopes is Aronson's Red See Passover, however, it requires other gaffs.

3. A tray may seem to help present that you never touch the cards, but is it necassary, I don't think so. It may add a touch of class to the routine, but they are counting the cards, not you.

I worked on a Zen style cards across, but I didn't like the method. I also checked out Ammar's Cards Across routine, but it was still lacking for me. I wanted something that could do the following:
A borrowed deck. Only two envelopes. Counting method exactly the same for both spectators. Two cards selected by spectators.

I came up with a workable effect, which works, but it removed the ease of the typical Zen routine. One day I will type it up.

Paul Hallas has a book called Across the Void, it covers a great deal about the cards across effect. I would highly recommend it as a resource for review.

What is the audience you intend to do this for?

Thank you for your reply.

I have never performed cards across before but something about the effect calls to me. I am concerned that having cards selected may "muddy the waters" so to speak. I feel that the climax of the effect should be at the relevation of the three cards that have travelled. It seems almost anti-climactic to then go on to prove that they were the selected cards. But, I have never performed this before so I am only guessing...

I want to perform the effect as a parlour/stage routine.

Using the envelopes, I think, makes the routine very "clean". But, I will consider other methods as well.

I have seen Mac King perform his routine and it is fantastic.

Any more input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

The traditional Cards Across and the Zens Card Across are two different effects, as you've noticed. Both are good effects.

The Zens trick allows you to have the cards mentally selected, by the way. (You can prevent the three specs from thinking of the same card by handing out a third of the packet to each of three specs.)

Anyway, the effect is that mentally selected cards pass from one sealed envelope into another sealed envelope, which sounds like a great effect to me. It does mean that it's a trick with a long build up.

Having spectators choose, think of, or sign cards doesn't have to make the routine drag at all. I've seen people who've done none of the above make the routine drag. It's up to the performer to keep the routine flowing.

Personally, I think having cards merely thought of travelling adds another layer of impossibility, but simply having cards move from one place to another under seemingly fair conditions is still a classic, and effects don't become classics for no reason.

As mentioned earlier, the book "Across The Void" is a great read for those interested in the plot as it covers various presentational approaches.

Paul.

Right. The build-up doesn't have to drag. You can stress the impossible conditions as they accumulate. A spec cuts the deck. He counts out 15 cards. He hands out five cards to each of 3 specs. Each thinks of a card, a spec gathers them up and seals them in an envelope.

If you contact Denny of Denny and Lee you can purchase a copy of "My Best". That is were I learned Zen's Cards Across

If you have never done this effect before this is what I would recommend. Try the version from Royal Road to Card Magic first. If you are a visual learner, Paul Wilson's DVD version does a great job with this effect. Get a feel for the effect, and check out the response. This routine may seem intimidating if you aren't a big card guy, but it really rocks. I was performing a bunch of card effects at a class I was in (during breaks) and one guy never seemed to care. I did this effect and he went nuts. He said I should be burned at the stake, that he watched me do all the "tricks" and new they were just tricks, but what I just did was impossible.

If you want to try to add the effect with a selected card, then give it a try. There are other ways to do this effect, I believe Tamariz has a version which allows for a thought of card as well. His can be found on his DVD's, but you might want to check out the World's Greatest Magic compilation as well, it is there with several others. There are versions where cards jump back and forth between spectators a couple of times as well.

So, try the royal road, and if you like the plot get Across the Void and possibly the WGM DVD. It is one of those effects that has so many variations and is well worth the study.

If you interested in opening up further conversation on the effect please PM me as well, sometimes these type of things can grow beyond the typical forum post.

Good Luck!

For me, it's usually a case of sizing up my audience before deciding which way to go.

Thanks for the input so far.

Even with Zen's you can cut it down to 10 cards per pile rather than 15. The higher number is simply a throwback to earler routines when 30 card decks were used a la Robert Houdin.

Paul.

That is a fascinating insight!

But wouldn't that be a 32-card pack, as used in the french card game Piquet? 30 is not divisible by 4, and so doesn't allow for 4 suits... Yet a 32-card pack would call for two 16-card piles rather than 15. Something is not corresponding here.

Nevertheless this discussion has me interested in your Across The Void book.

I've closed my platform act at the Castle with the version in "My Best" for about 10 years.

But if you REALLY want to learn about Cards Across-- Paul Hallas has the best book out there on the plot.

It's the most comprehensive material on Cards Across I've ever seen.

Ever.

SEY

Here is another useful source:

Supplement to the MAGIC CIRCULAR, June 1953:
Hoffmann Memorial Lecture, 1953
SOME ASPECTS OF THE "FLYING CARDS"
A Lecture delivered before the Magic Circle on Thursday, April 16th, 1953 by Peter Warlock, M.I.M.C.

Does anyone know if the method in "My Best" is the same as in Paul Clive's "Card Tricks Without Skill"?

Something to consider regarding selections or no selections in a 'cards-across' effect is context. What effects are you preceiding the routine with? What effects will you be doing after? These questions can help you deterimine which type of routine would be best. If you already have many cards being selected, and a lot of spectator involvement, it may be better to use a version which requires no selections. However, if your other routines don't have many cards selected or much involvement, a version involving thought-of selections might be best.

Jeff

Does anybody use the switch from Paul Curry's version of the Thought Cards Across Plot called "Teleport" (see Worlds Beyond)?
Clever switch and can be used almost surrounded if the left hand also goes to the handkerchief pocket to open it with the thumb, while the fingers are giving cover from the right side...

For a clean ten card each version, You can start with 8 extra cards, which You leave in the box while taking out the deck.
Palm two cards, first spectator counts ten cards on the table, You add the palmed ones.

Second spectator counts ten cards (duplicates of the first ten...), You put the rest aside (in the pocket for a partial deck switch?).
Two cards (one red one black) are thought of from this packet, spectator shuffles the cards, then they are switched for the eight cards in the box via Curry's switch.

Mission acomplished... Duplicates are in the pocket, deck is left clean... Rest of the pack can be switched so You end with a complete MD...

Just some thoughts. Any comments?

First, to answer one of the original questions, I have always preferred having cards either selected or thought of. I've never cared for the idea of moving three cards from one place to another without keeping track of their values. I always assumed that some laymen would come up with false solutions (cards stuck together, etc.) I know this can be overcome with presentation, but if there are methods to do it with selections, why not go that route?

For my money, the absolute best version of cards across is by Helder Guimareas. He published it in his "Don't Xerox Lecture Notes" which may no longer be available. I hear that it will be one of the items in his upcoming book. Two signed cards travel from one packet to another under test conditions. There are a ton of psychological convincers built into the routine that really solidify the picture in the minds of the audience. Very clever indeed.

Caleb
http://www.CalebWilesMagic.com

Posted: Dec 2, 2010 9:36am
By the way, for close up, you definitely can't go wrong with Simon Aronson's "Red See Passover." Michael Close called it one of the five strongest tricks you can do with a deck of cards. I think he may be right.

Caleb
http://www.CalebWilesMagic.com

Who could forget John Mulholland's hideously over-done version...

The Zen's routine is good, and technically easy. I prefer a thought card across a la Peter Warlock; for close work it's perfect.

Where can you prurchase Across the void by Paul Hallas? I have searched the net for hours with no result.
Thanks
Den