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jusakarman
New user
Jakrta, indonesia
70 Posts
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Posted: Oct 9, 2009 6:07am
Since I learn many technique in card magic...i wondering who is found the double lift technique...?
because that technique is one of most important sleight on card magic..and must be learned and perfect by any magician.....
"for those magicians who place magic above comfort and reward" from book of wonder by Tommy Wonder (November 29, 1953 - June 26, 2006) ........
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Oct 12, 2009 5:21pm
It's generally credited to Vernon, but that may not be the case. However, I think the double turnover (which is an extension of the double lift) may be Vernon's.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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jcards01
Inner circle
Waterloo, IL
1433 Posts
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Posted: Oct 13, 2009 10:45am
I believe the Double Lift Concept goes back way before Vernon....1700's...but can't remember the source. Don't confuse the Double Lift with the Double or Multiple Turnover. Most people when referring to Double Lift in fact mean Double Turnover. The Double Lift, cards coming up and away (lifted), The Multiple Turnover, card(s) are turned over onto the deck.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
www.jimmycards.com
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Oct 14, 2009 2:45pm
That has been my impression, as well.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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pduffie
Veteran user
UK
321 Posts
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Posted: Nov 11, 2009 5:19pm
I spent a night with Vernon in Dundee (Scotland) many years ago. He had come over with Ron Wilson, who was over to sort out his late father's estate. We were in the bar along with my friend Gordon Bruce, and Vernon mentioned that he "thought" he might have invented the Double Lift & Turnover onto the deck. He didn't claim anything - just that he had never seen it prior to him doing it.
Peter
Alternative Magic: www.peterduffie.com
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25245 Posts
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Posted: Nov 11, 2009 6:21pm
The idea of turning the double over back onto the pack may turn out to be Vernon's. The earliest published reference I've seen has the card(s) picked up in what amounts to an overhand grip and the card(s) face displayed in a sort of "open the book" type action depicted in an illustration.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark
Inner circle
By now they've deleted all but
2869 Posts
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Posted: Feb 17, 2010 2:21pm
Remarkable such a basic and important move had not been thought of before Vernon. Other than the Ghost Count, do you think there are any other important card sleights that are "no-brainers" in conception, but have come to the literature or practice only relatively recently?
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
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Spellbinder
Inner circle
The Holy City of East Orange, NJ
6439 Posts
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Posted: Feb 17, 2010 6:01pm
The double lift was invented in 1863, by Luman L Chapman.
My source: http://www.ebrasetc.com/bra_history.htm
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry
http://www.magicnook.com
Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Feb 17, 2010 6:44pm
Of course!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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SonnySam
New user
4 Posts
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Posted: Feb 18, 2010 8:06pm
I had the priveledge of having Vernon do a cameo in my 1982 movie "The Wonder Of Magic" and he stated that he thought he might have been the originator of the double lift at that time, however both Joe Cosari and Kuda Bux stated that they were sure it had been done prior to Vernon doing it. They could not state where or who had done it though.
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Jeff Hinchliffe
Loyal user
Toronto, ON Canada
261 Posts
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Posted: Feb 22, 2010 1:08pm
The Double Lift (not turnover) was first published in print in 1716, in Richard Neve's 'The Merry Companion' along with a variety of other tricks, including the card to ceiling.
The lift didn't see print again until the mid 1800's I believe, in Magie Blanche Devoilee (spelling may be off)
And yes, I believe Vernon is credited with the natural double-turnover handling that's become common place in modern card magic.
Jeff
Pick a card, any card...
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Clay Shevlin
Elite user
493 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2010 4:51am
Quote:
| On 2010-02-22 13:08, Jeff Hinchliffe wrote:
The Double Lift (not turnover) was first published in print in 1716, in Richard Neve's 'The Merry Companion' ... |
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Very interesting. What/who is the source for this info?
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Jeff Hinchliffe
Loyal user
Toronto, ON Canada
261 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2010 2:45pm
Clay,
I don't remember where I first heard about the reference, but I went to the University of Toronto's main library and found a copy of Neve's work on Microfilm. I printed out the section on magic, which included the double lift. I don't have the copy with me at the moment, but if you send me a PM with your e-mail I can send you the section...
Jeff
Pick a card, any card...
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Stanyon
Inner circle
Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago
2885 Posts
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Posted: Mar 10, 2010 8:32am
Who invented the Double lift? I always thought it was "Frederick's of Hollywood"...oh wait, you're talking about cards. My bad!
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor
"Every move a move!"
"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25245 Posts
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Posted: Jun 27, 2010 9:23pm
One of the guys on the Genii BBS once posted a link to the page and illustration showing the DL. Sadly I did not keep that link info over the years as I changed drives on my PC. It's old. And the turnover on top of the deck/packet still seems limited to close range, like deep back clip for coins when compared to the lift and display which serves in parlor settings.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Steve Burton
Regular user
147 Posts
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Posted: Oct 12, 2010 3:26pm
Which begs the question, "When did the Double Lift and Turnover first appear in print?"
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Philippe Noël
New user
Belgium
65 Posts
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Posted: Jan 3, 2011 1:19pm
In his new DVD called foundations 2, Jason England give the following reference for the earliest double lift in print:"Some of the earliest known double lifts are from Richard Neve's The Merry Companion (1716) as well as J N Ponsin's Nouvelle Magie Blanche Dévoilée (1854)."
Personally I think that the earliest double turn over ON THE DECK is in Encyclopedia of Card Tricks(1937).
In card manipulations, series 2 (1933), Hugard also describes a double turnover but says to "place them just above the pack not on it".
Just my two cents...
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25245 Posts
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Posted: Jan 3, 2011 9:18pm
I have a copy of Neve's book. It's there as a display as discussed earlier. In the edition I have, page 121, item XXV "To Seem to change the top Card of the Pack into another." You'll find the sandwich, four of a kind production and several other familiar ideas there as well. As it happens that's not the book I was recalling with the illustration but the idea and method is there. 
Turning the card over onto the pack rather than holding it up for display is of limited use and visibility - though well suited to when folks are very close-up.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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charliewerner
Regular user
162 Posts
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Posted: Nov 2, 2011 3:37am
It couldn't be Dai Vernon...but I think is on erdnase book...or trick the invinsible flight? First ever person who invent double lift must be a gambler who did second deal...
"Seeing Joy, Sadness, Anger,Contempt,Surprise, Disgust,Fear on people faces are the motivation of my MAGIC" Charlie Werner (C.C.L)
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Nov 6, 2011 5:59pm
Got a page number for that?
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Jim Sparx
Inner circle
Far Out, Texas
1125 Posts
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Posted: Apr 15, 2012 4:34pm
The Double Lift is a sleight by which two cards are "lifted" and shown as a single card.
The "concept" was first described in The Merry Companion; or Delights for the Ingenious written by Richard Neve in 1716 under the title To Fein to Change the Top Card of the pack to Another, page 141.
From the Genii Magicpedia
George Snyder references a double lift trick in Greater Magic, pg. 473
Spartacus died for your sloth
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Rennie
Inner circle
Manteca, California
1853 Posts
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Posted: Jun 22, 2012 12:13pm
My one and only comment on the double lift is, I have only seen 1 magician perform it where it DID NOT look like a "move". That magician was Daryl!!
Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25245 Posts
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Posted: Jul 13, 2012 8:07pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-15 16:34, spartacus wrote:... in The Merry Companion; or Delights for the Ingenious written by Richard Neve in 1716 under the title To Fein to Change the Top Card of the pack to Another, page 141.
From the Genii Magicpedia
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In my copy of the book it's page 112, item twenty five: To Seem to change the top Card of the Pack into another.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Leo H
New user
66 Posts
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Posted: Apr 4, 2013 2:13am
I remember reading somewhere that Vernon gave Arthur Findley credit for the Double Turnover. Findley was part of the New York Inner Circle, so he was no slouch.
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25245 Posts
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Posted: Apr 15, 2013 3:07pm
That's interesting.
Hey Denis are you up to indexing the Vernon anecdotes on your site?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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