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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts 
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 01:32, John Pilotzi wrote: John, Thanks for "sticking up for us" but truth be told, I think it's a non issue. No matter what we try and do, we will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. I don't look at the commentary as "interfering" with our project, I take it as feedback. That's the nature of the beast when you're involved with something of this nature. Chet and I spoke privately and I believe that on the issue, we shall agree to disagree. Whereas I do not agree with his observation, I do respect his position. Will I change my style of writing? Doubtful. I gotta me when I write as all of the columnists should. The majority of emails and private messages that I have received have been all positive...with a small % being negative. I can live with that....! = ) Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts
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John,
Please, read the first post in this thread. Jim asked what we liked and what we hated. I do, in fact, like it and I'm glad it is back. I enjoyed the content and the topics covered. I have huge respect for Jim and the effort he has put into the Magic Menu (past and current). I was not offended by some of the words Tom and Christopher used. Heck, I drop about 12 f-bombs every day driving home from work in the Chicago traffic. I was just surprised to see it in this publication. Christopher, to answer your question, no...you really didn't use swear words in your article. Still, I think (my opinion) references to throwing poo, !@#$%-slapping, being bent over a table and raped, perfeshANAL, etc. are examples of terminology that I found odd. Again, just my opinion. As far as the content and message of the article....wonderful. I have nothing against you personally. As a matter of fact, I had mentioned to one of your fellow writers, well over a year ago, how I'd like to see you perform because I think you'd be very entertaining. I still feel that way. You are obviously free to use whatever words you and the editor deem appropriate....God bless America. Will it stop me from subscribing to the Magic Menu....nope. Our choice of words reflect how we want to be perceived. If you're good with that, so am I. peace patrick |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts
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Patrick,
Understand that I have taken no offense to anything that anyone has said. I just wanted you to clairfiy since you had said that I swore in my column which I obviously did not. Quote:
On 2009-10-30 03:28, patrick flanagan wrote: One thing that I think people will quickly learn about me (if they haven't already) is that I'm very passionate when it comes to this fine art of magic. I'm very opinionated and I say what feel. I don't dress it up in roses and sunshine. I'm not PC and I never will be. I'm not left nor am I right. I walk right down the middle of Politically Correct Ave. with my middle finger extended high and proud. It seems to me that our society has gotten very soft. I'm anything but...and I'm fine with that. I completely understand that I do rub people the wrong way. You either like me or you don't. So obviously, when I write...my personallity shows quite a bit. I'm fine with using "color" when I write. There's a bit of an edge to my style b/c there's a bit of an edge to me. Where I'm from, we would call most of those terms "slang"...but I guess that's for the reader to determine for themself. I did want to go on record that I did not swear in my column nor will I unless I feel it's necessary...which will be hardly ever. I should also mention that I did not say "perfeshANAL" in my column. I said perfeshanal. I never CAPED the anal...you did that. All I was doing was using a term from the book Our Magic. That was not a term I made up, it's just one that I use to describe people like this. The bottom line here is that I'm very happy that you agree with what I said even if you don't agree with how I said it. I got a feeling that's going to be the norm for Sleightly Delusional...that is of course unless you just tear out my column to catch the bird cage fodder as Chet did...but I gotta me! To alter my persoanllity to fit or conform to what others want just isn't me...and I gotta be myself. So for those out there who didn't like my verbiage, I gotta feeling (as Jim said above) "you're in for a bumpy ride!" I am what I am...for better or for worse...
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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fredface New user 27 Posts
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Well done Mr. Lyle. Thank God for writers like you. The new namby-pamby writers (in magic) are a pain. Great magazine! FF. Oh yeah, Paul Gordan's tricks have lept right into my act!! Wow!!!
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fredface New user 27 Posts
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By the way, I tried to introduce myself on TMC...but my post vanished. I'm Fred Tonati out of Chicago. Cardnut extreme...
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james prince Loyal user England 233 Posts
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When you consider the subject Chris was writing about I think he did quite well to restrict his terminology
Someone who tries to steal your restaurant = A perfeshanal I think he could have come up with a lot worse! And been justified! No one to my knowledge had ever tried to steal my restaurants but I have a friend who had his taken away by an under cutter, It's no fun when earning a living involved And I agree with Chris - It's not good old American competition and enterprise - But if you want the rest of the argument - Buy the magazine! …………. But this is not why I'm posting - I got sidetracked Fred Tonati mentions Paul Gordon's (note spelling - not Paul Gordan - now who's getting anal) two great tricks in this edition - Like him I've already played with 'Diminishing? Not Likely!' and it's a great follow up to any 4 ace routine Even better is that you can go onto Paul's own website and watch him use them in performance to 'real' people and see that their straight out of his act Very generous Paul - I look forward to your next offering |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts
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Fred...
I'm honored that your FIRST offical post on the Café' was to comment about my column. My hat's off to you sir! Welcome to the insanity that is The Magic Café. = ) I'm glad you enjoyed my column...thanks for supporting us and subscribing. Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts
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Hi Fred...welcome
I'm from Chicago, also, born and raised. This may not be the proper place for a question like this, but I'll ask anyhow. Since my geographic performing area is fairly limited to the midwest, I wonder how magic is received in different parts of the country (world, also, for that matter). I realize an analysis (there is that word again...lol) of this nature would be ripe with generalizations. But, in terms of close up magic, for example, what are the prevalant performing styles and influences by region of the country. For example, being from Chicago, people say that Don Alan has influenced the style of close up magic probably more than anyone else. How about other areas of the country? Christopher, based on your bio, you've spent time in a few different time zones. Do you see differences in audiences based on region? And to further comment on the Magic Menu (making this post relevant to this area...lol), whomever was assigned the task of proof-reading Danny Doyle's column deserves hazard pay....lol. Danny knows I'm just messin' with him. Patrick |
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-10-29 20:42, mormonyoyoman wrote: Blimey,is a couple of swear words really such a big deal...I mean,really??!! Each to there own of course,but tearing up the mag?! Come on! 
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts
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Sorry, Adam, but I don't want people to come into my place and poop on the furniture. Equally, I don't like people pooping into my brain. It's quite as rude as stealing someone's restaurant gig.
I know it's not politically correct to condone moral cleanliness, but that's just the way it is. *jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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Spinnato Elite user 428 Posts
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"Can't we all just get along?"
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 13:14, Spinnato wrote: What fun would that be? = ) Seriously...Chet is a strong opinioned person and I respect that becuase I am much the same way...tho' on the other end of the spectrum. I don't have to agree with his opinion to respect the guy. It's all good and he knows that too! At no time did he make a personal attack towards me (or Tom) regarding out column. He simply stated that he stopped reading it due to our colorful choice of verbiage. The world will continue to spin folks... The good news is he read enough of it (based on where he stopped) to have gotten the gist of it all. For Chet (and those like him), all that I can ask is they always give my article a chance...but just like I have the freedom to write whatever I want, they have the freedom to not read it. What a great country we live in! I'm sure that all of us knew going in that there would be a % of folks who would not like what we say, how we worded it, or the topic of which we are writing about. That's reality. I'm going to begin a new thread this evening upon my return to try and speak about some ideas that I have had since reading the Menu (several times now). I just can't put it down. Lot's of great stuff in there for us all... Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts
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Spinnato,
I think we are getting along just fine. It's just a discussion of differing opinions on language and it's usage. LOL...I just called someone a stupid m-f'er about 15 minutes ago, so I'm not opposed to colorful language. I (my opinion) just don't know if it's appropriate or necessary in a magic publication. I've stated my view, and I'm done with that topic. patrick |
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts
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Frankly, even though I dislike ambushes (and have stated so) I'm really enjoying the exchange on this thread. And I hope it is just controversial enough to stimulate many more subscriptions for Jim.
Christopher, I can respect, even while disagreeing. Right now, his opinion (at least among magicians) is in the majority, and mine is the politically incorrect one. Once, this country tried to be as morally clean as possible, though way too many people paid it lip service and covered up their falseness. My dad, when drunk, would use the same abusive language which is considered "colorful" by folks today, but would be extremely apologetic when sobered. (Praise God, he was able to finally beat the alcoholism and spent the last half of his life sober and clean!) Those were the days when uncleanliness was considered the aberration. I was able to raise my kids in a better atmosphere, and I'm able to see my grandkids raised in an even better environment. We're getting along (for the most part. Those of you who've sent me the anonymous threatening e-mails - Do you really think you scare me?) and I served for much of my life to defend the Constitution. Though our founding fathers were mostly morally clean, they'd defend - and did - the right to others leading their lives as they wished to, if they tried to avoid hurting others. (Which is one reason I oppose abusive, dirty language.) *jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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John Pilotzi Veteran user 321 Posts
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I still maintain that the editor should be the ONLY person allowed to edit his/her own magazine. If you subscribe and don't like it - unsubscribe! Simple.
JP |
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts
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Don't be silly, John. Though the editor remains the final arbitrator, one shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. (Have I said that already?) And Jim's work has always, always worth saving. It's easy to remove the dirty pages, photocopy the clean pages on the back of them, and save the photocopied sheets. Y'see, once I buy the magazine, I own it - it's mine. Birthed by Jim, but that copy is mine.
Oddly enough, this topic of dirty language and presentation was discussed on the final disk of *13 Steps to Mentalism* another one of those projects with which Jim Sisti was instrumental, and which I just plugged. The discussions are the greatest value in magic and mentalism learning, and I think Disk #6 alone is worth $120. Get it, and get it from Jim's and Richard's site. *jeep! --Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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Jim Sisti V.I.P. Connecticut 457 Posts
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This entire discussion has gotten entirely out of hand and I have now officially lost my patience with it.
First of all, John isn't being silly at all. In fact, he's quite correct. I have the final say about what goes into each issue and my vision has always been, from the very first issue in 1990, to never edit the magazine according to the whims of squeaky wheels but, rather, to let it find its own audience. The latter approach is the only way that any artistic endeavor can remain true to any kind of ideal. I refuse to have it editorially blown around by loud, but largely self-serving, winds. There are 15189 words in the new issue of the Menu, only two of which some have found objectionable. I let them go because I firmly believe in something Lenny Bruce (someone else, I'm sure, some would find "immoral" or "unclean") once observed: "Take away the right to say 'f***' and you take away the right to say, 'F*** the government'." It was my call because I felt that the words in question bolstered the particular viewpoint of the columnist and I let them see print. If I decided that their use was gratuitious, I would have edited the words out. I didn't. Get over it. And, again, forgive my bluntness, but the idea that there are "dirty pages" in this issue, rendered so by two words, is so ridiculous and provincial that I would feel silly even offering a comment. Make a paper tree out of the magazine for all I care - just please don't waste my time telling me about it any more. Make of that what you will. |
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John Pilotzi Veteran user 321 Posts
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Bravo Mr. Sisti!
I just emailed Paul Gordon to ask his opinion about this thread. His reply (with his permission): I left TMC ages ago and I haven't read it since. The reason being is precisly what appears to be happening now. Anonymous posters making idiotic statements. Bully tactics, wind-up merchants, stirers, whiners, moaners and such like. Re Magic Menu: When I write my next column, it'll be my exact opinion (about whatever subjects I care to raise), and if folks don't like it - fine. If they do like it - fine. But, the only one who can/will censor it will be Jim Sisti...and I doubt he will. He's too good an editor for that. In my opinion, there is NO place for censorship in art. Yours, Paul Gordon JP |
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 15:21, Jim Sisti wrote: I think Jim has put it quite succinctly above,and I agree,as editor,and founder,its his choice, end of.Thats how it should be. I observed a few posts up that "tearing the mag up",was insanity.Then bringing religion into it from nowhere,well......pointless. Jim has made much the same point as me,but put it a bit better. If you don't like it,unsubscribe,and leave the rest of us to enjoy. Columnists,and editor,more of the same please!
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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Jim Sisti V.I.P. Connecticut 457 Posts
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John and Adam:
I agree with everything you've written, but in this situation, I particularly agrere with the signature line in the tiny type below Adam's post. That, my friend, is really putting it succinctly! |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » THE MAGIC MENU - The International Journal for Close-Up Magicians » » Autumn 2009 - Comments or Questions? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Oct 30, 2009 07:15 am 
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