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Keith Brown
New user
North Carolina
91 Posts
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Posted: Nov 3, 2009 4:37pm
I have a new show that I am updating and it pays honor to Native Americans...at least that is my attempt.
Anyway-if you have a suggestion for a story/trick for this program, please let me know. I will be doing some limited sleight-of-hand and mostly mentalism type effects.
Thanks,
Keith
~Dr. Keith Brown
"The Master of Mystery"
www.KeithBrownMagic.com
www.TheInvisibleMagicShop.com
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puppeterry
Regular user
Sanger, CA
114 Posts
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Posted: Nov 4, 2009 7:52pm
In researching ways to use magic in campfire programs, I found references to animated feather routines performed by tribal shamans. A classic thread-based dancing hank routine could be done with a feather.
TV Mc Arthur
The Librician
Fresno (CA) County Public Library
"They don't get better.....just faster."
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The Curator
V.I.P.
Beware Vampire, I have
2882 Posts
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Posted: Nov 10, 2009 3:54am
Fetishes in Capricornian Tales.
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Keith Brown
New user
North Carolina
91 Posts
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Posted: Nov 12, 2009 8:20pm
You have given me something to think about.
Keith
~Dr. Keith Brown
"The Master of Mystery"
www.KeithBrownMagic.com
www.TheInvisibleMagicShop.com
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Stmarkus
New user
New York City
64 Posts
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Posted: Nov 13, 2009 5:20am
Whatever you decide on, it might be a nice idea to burn some sage before you start, then take some tobacco, as this was deemed sacred, and make an offering to the sky and the earth,(throw a little up in the air, then drop some on the ground) as you face North, East, South and West....
Just a thought...
Mark
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Jaz
Inner circle
NJ, U.S.
6113 Posts
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Posted: Nov 14, 2009 5:11pm
The story of Sacagawea may give some ideas. Use her coins.
This link may help with ideas:
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/aihmbioaz.html
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Bill Thomas
Regular user
101 Posts
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Posted: Nov 15, 2009 9:17am
Hi Keith
- Go buy a couple arrow heads, a dark colored one and a lighter colored one, and do spellbound. You will have to get used to the feel of the arrow heads though because of their shape.
- Buy several arrow heads and do, 2 in the hand and one in the pocket.
Just a couple ideas I have played with.
I really like the dancing feather idea posted above.
Bill
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Keith Brown
New user
North Carolina
91 Posts
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Posted: Nov 17, 2009 8:45pm
Thanks for you continued suggestions, guys. I really want to do some new material but also must stay respectful to the Native American tradition which is one of my ancestoral lines.
The ideas put forth here have been very interesting and I do take them seriously.
Keith
~Dr. Keith Brown
"The Master of Mystery"
www.KeithBrownMagic.com
www.TheInvisibleMagicShop.com
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chmara
Inner circle
Tucson, AZ
1699 Posts
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Posted: Nov 18, 2009 12:25am
There is a wonderful Southern Paiute belief/legend that, if treated respectfully can carry forth for a whole act.
When a person dies (hopefully after a long and full life) a song arises in his village --and is carried from village to village along the spirit path to the sacred mountain -- in order to show the spirit of the daprted the way to the spirit world -- enabelling them to travel to all the villages of the people on the way to their new life on the sacred mountain's peak.
But, not everypone who dies has finished their work -- or fulfilled their curiosities n the earth -- so it is not unusual for Paiutes to meet, greet and talk with the spirit of the departed over the next year -- sometimes in familiar places - sometimes on a road or under a tree by a roadside. Advice, ,ideas and news can be shared.
Then, a year to the day of the departed's death -- a new song arises in his/her village -- a similar song that sung the path a year before. The song, once again passes from village to village along the sacred trail to the mountain --- but now the text is different. T our honored spirit -- we siong you along the path to happiness in case you forgot the way -- and let you now that we have enjpyed and respected your company this past year -- and your love and guidance has comforted us.
But now it is time for us to take responsibility for ourselves and live our lives to learn our own wisdom -- so we singf you a farewell and show you the way to the spirit mountain -- knowing your love for us will allow you to travel there in peace -- we will no longer see your spirit or converse with you -- because now is our time to live and your time to rest.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC
Tucson, AZ
C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments
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Balaram
Special user
674 Posts
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Posted: Nov 18, 2009 9:04pm
Chmara, this is pretty wonderful just on its own. Perhaps, during the telling, a sacred pipe lights itself, as the departed accepts his place with the ancestors on the mountain--
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Logan Five
Inner circle
1276 Posts
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Posted: Nov 18, 2009 10:18pm
There are many oracle decks out there with a native American theme. Probably many card effects that you know can be used with these decks. I can highly recommend Rachel Pollack's Shining Tribe tarot deck.
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Keith Brown
New user
North Carolina
91 Posts
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Posted: Nov 24, 2009 9:14pm
Again, thank you. There are so many useful ideas. I am taking them all and really thinking them through. I have a program now but always wanting to make my work better, tighter, more meaningful. I want this program to reach out and grab.
Thanks again,
Keith
Posted: Nov 29, 2009 5:07pm
CHMarna,
Thanks for you great suggestion. I have re-written the script for this show completely, using your inspiration, and am now working on some of the details and the magic (which btw, is almost secondary to the script I think).
Thanks again,
Keith
Posted: Dec 16, 2009 8:41pm
I am wanting to float a feather in this program using a ITR...but the problem I am having is how to connect the feather.
Any help? You can private me if you wish to avoid public disclosure.
Thanks in advance,
Keith
~Dr. Keith Brown
"The Master of Mystery"
www.KeithBrownMagic.com
www.TheInvisibleMagicShop.com
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Crowslide
New user
50 Posts
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Posted: Dec 16, 2009 11:23pm
Please don't pay tribute to "Native Americans." That is like paying tribute to "Africans" In 1998 there were 554 federally recognized tribes, which means that one point there were likely more than a thousand tribes in North America. Native culture has suffered from broad generalizations. If you seek to honnor..do your homework, learn about a specific people, spend time with them, ask for permission. I do realize that I'm assuming you are not directly connected to a Native tribe.
This comment "Whatever you decide on, it might be a nice idea to burn some sage before you start, then take some tobacco, as this was deemed sacred, and make an offering to the sky and the earth,(throw a little up in the air, then drop some on the ground) as you face North, East, South and West...."
..is indicitave of the problem. Who deemd it sacred? ALL tribes? or just them..those indians.
Not meant to be harsh.
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Keith Brown
New user
North Carolina
91 Posts
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Posted: Dec 17, 2009 9:36pm
Thank you for you post and no, my intention has never been to generalize,nor bring anything but respect to Native Traditions. I am a descendent of an unrecognized tribe, have spent a lot of time with Cherokees, Lumbees, and Navajos and would never try to hurt them. You are right in that there are many differences. I promise you that I will be very aware of your post and opinion as I move forward. Thanks for you input.
~Dr. Keith Brown
"The Master of Mystery"
www.KeithBrownMagic.com
www.TheInvisibleMagicShop.com
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Ms. Merizing
Loyal user
Opening soon: a trading post for my
228 Posts
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Posted: Jul 15, 2010 11:56am
Words to consider before using a pseudo Native American Tarot: http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm .
Pleased to continue finding that all the world's a stage.
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Balaram
Special user
674 Posts
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Posted: Jul 16, 2010 1:13am
Very interesting read, thanks for posting it.
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2011 2:18pm
To add a reference to this thread, Ed Solomon (author of Money Matters, What Lies Behind and Tales From the Heart) has just released a new book called Grandfather Stories. Its focus is magic with a Native American flair to it. I have all of his other books and have enjoyed them very much, so I do plan on purchasing this. I will post a review once I get it and have had sufficient time to read through it.
I also agree with the comments made previously on here that when doing magic that involves any particular ethnic group, great care should be taken to ensure that you are not disrespecting the beliefs, culture, traditions and views of that ethnic group.
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Autumn Morning Star
Grammar Hostess
Today, I corrected grammar in
1328 Posts
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Posted: Jul 19, 2011 6:49pm
I see it has been two years since the original post and I wonder what Keith Brown came up with.
Crowslide, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most people try to "honor" Native traditions, but it comes out in the form of team mascots and terrible programs for Boy Scouts or that culturally-broken Thanksgiving holiday. I am a tiny part African American, but I would never attempt to 'honor' Black people by replicating African stories in a magic show.
As a Native woman from two tribal Nations, even I have to be extremely careful what I do in my show. I can never use the sacred, such as the earlier suggestion of a Sacred Pipe, in ANY way onstage! Using a Sacred Pipe for entertainment purposes is so very disrespectful that I cannot even express it in English. We don't even mention it in any way outside of our traditional circles. When I wear my tribal regalia onstage, I walk in total respect of who my regalia represents. My stories are told in the correct season, (yes, some stories can only be told during certain times of the year.)
In a nutshell, with the misuse of sacred things you can: "Accidentally get a'hold of some 'bad juju' and it can bite you hard and follow you home every night, looming over your bed while you try to sleep." You don't want any part of that.
While a Native heritage may be a 'part' of your culture, how do you actually identify? This is a big issue for Indian people. This is not some identity that you can put on and take off like a sock for entertainment purposes. You would be best served to spend time around your OWN tribal members who identify as Indian 24/7 until you are given your own tribal stories to tell. Might take a while.
I suggest you discuss what you are going to do with your elders before you go collecting their stories. Discuss what you are planning to do with elders from other tribal nations. Ask what would and would not be 'appropriate entertainment'. There is a VERY thin line between entertainment and exploitation and it is easy to stumble across.
And we don't ever use the word 'Shaman'. It is 'Medicine Person' in most tribes. 'Shaman' was invented up by the anthropologist who was 'honoring us' by studying and recording our culture through digging up our sacred burial grounds.
A dream doesn't become reality through magic; it takes sweat, determination and hard work.
Colin Powell
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Balaram
Special user
674 Posts
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Posted: Jul 21, 2011 11:44pm
Long ago, my father taught me, the hardest thing in this life--is to admit you made a mistake and say "I'm sorry".
Autum Morning Star, I posted the suggestion to use a pipe for this proposed routine.
I have apparently deeply offended you, and I appologize.
I am always learning, Bill Z.
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Leslie Melville
Special user
Blackpool-U.K.
552 Posts
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Posted: Jul 22, 2011 12:51pm
A while back I saw a YouTube clip of a middle-aged, middle class white lady telling supposed Native American stories to a similarly middle class white audience. She wore a long silk dress and a head-band from which two feathers protruded. As she told her story, she walked aimlessly about the stage, periodically tapping a hand drum with a stick.
She performed under the pseudo name of a perceived Native American - I can't remember exactly what she called herself but it was totally inappropriate. I do remember being appalled at the whole concept!
The patronising performance will have been hugely offensive to any Native Americans who have seen it!
As a professional storyteller, I of course tell stories from other cultures but I tell them from the perception of an outsider. To take on the persona of a different race and culture without doing the appropriate research can be very dangerous.
Leslie.
Stories....?....That's telling!
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Autumn Morning Star
Grammar Hostess
Today, I corrected grammar in
1328 Posts
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Posted: Nov 9, 2011 1:59pm
Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 23:44, Balaram wrote:
Long ago, my father taught me, the hardest thing in this life--is to admit you made a mistake and say "I'm sorry".
Autumn Morning Star, I posted the suggestion to use a pipe for this proposed routine.
I have apparently deeply offended you, and I apologize.
I am always learning, Bill Z.
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Bless you, Bill. This is late to acknowledge, but I only saw your post today. I appreciate the strength your father gave you to say you are sorry. You are a man with a good heart and you are truly forgiven. You did not offend me, because you did not know! I educate people and am only offended when they still continue to use and abuse sacred traditions after they know it is not right. It is so easy to step on toes in cultures other than our own 
Best,
Autumn
A dream doesn't become reality through magic; it takes sweat, determination and hard work.
Colin Powell
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Ringo
Loyal user
280 Posts
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Posted: Nov 13, 2011 3:28pm
The culture(s) of the Native Americans have always intrigued me. I do realise however, that - as a European - my view of those cultures is completely deformed by the love I had as a child for those Karl May stories (yes, I admit).
Having re-read them as an adult, I felt a mixture of nostalgia and disgust for condescending way he writes about the "Indians".
Years ago, I was planning to visit the American West, but life got in the way, I guess. Still, if I were to cross the pond, I would hope to really learn something about those cultures I have read so much about (fiction and non-fiction). But I'm afraid that - as someone who will obviously be there just as a tourist - I would only get to see what other tourists get to see.
We all know that isn't much. But perhaps it's better this way. It's hard to find a balance between respect and discretion and curiosity and eagerness to learn, though.
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Autumn Morning Star
Grammar Hostess
Today, I corrected grammar in
1328 Posts
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Posted: Jan 12, 2012 3:47pm
Hi Ringo,
Most of Europe was (and still is) heavily influenced by Karl May's books about Winnetou. Karl never even met a Native American Indian, but he had an active imagination. It is difficult to escape from the stereotypes he created, for they persist until today. We are just people like anyone else, but some of us are more in touch with the Earth and we are much more open to traditional ways, which are kept hidden from outside society.
If you came to my reservation you would be shocked at the poverty and the clutter, but moved by our dry (fabulous) sense of humor and our unbroken Spirit. We often remain aloof to outsiders until we know them better. Some non-Indian people come to our reservations and never leave. Many say they are looking for that missing part within themselves. They say they find something out here in the middle of nowhere that fills that void.
A dream doesn't become reality through magic; it takes sweat, determination and hard work.
Colin Powell
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Ms. Merizing
Loyal user
Opening soon: a trading post for my
228 Posts
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Posted: Jan 25, 2012 12:37pm
I invite anyone perusing this thread to read:
Fantasies of the Master Race: Literature, Cinema, and the Colonization of American Indians by Ward Churchill
Paperback: 261 pages
Publisher: City Lights Publishers (January 1, 2001)
ISBN-10: 0872863484
ISBN-13: 978-0872863484
http://www.amazon.com/Fantasies-Master-Race-Literature-Colonization/dp/0872863484
&
A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas 1492 to the Present
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Matter-Genocide-Holocaust-Americas/dp/0872863239/ref=pd_vtp_b_2/192-4423980-6191815
Pleased to continue finding that all the world's a stage.
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John D. Magician
New user
3 Posts
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Posted: Feb 28, 2012 10:11am
Ward Churchill is a very controversial figure in that he claims certain relationships and expertise many Native Americans find very, shall we say, "implausible"? Mr. Churchill has more detractors than defenders these days and should not be considered a respectable authority on Native Americans.
John Degel
Lakota name: Wakaneyeja Waste Likipi
John D(egel) Magician
Montana's Premiere Comedy Magician-Ventriloquist
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moesepher
New user
1 Post
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Posted: Mar 25, 2012 11:25am
I would implore you to watch Reel Injun, it's on netflix and it can explain a lot about the film and entertainment industry in respect to the portrayal of first nations people.
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