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magicFreak2
Inner circle
1227 Posts
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Posted: Jun 23, 2010 5:13pm
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On 2010-06-21 12:55, BCaldwell wrote:
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On 2010-06-21 08:21, dinger136 wrote:
There is a whole Android Market waiting...
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I totally agree!
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There is already a superior Asian version out there that does whole cards (I think it's android).
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 12:16am
Quote:
| There is already a superior Asian version out there that does whole cards (I think it's android). |
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The Chinese knock off of iForce that you're talking about is for the Android OS and it only does one method (while iForce does three). It was written all in slow Java so when you're performing unless your spectators are standing directly over the phone, you'll see the app do the dirty work. You can not do whole cards (you get 20 outs) you get the rest of the cards through equivoque.
The Chinese knock off requires two moves for more outs . . . (while iForce uses just one)
Lastly you can't even find that app on the Android market place.
iForce has had the greatest amount of piracy in Asia . . . mostly Taiwan and China. There are sections of magic forums in Asia dedicated to the things you can do with iForce that have new posts practically every day. Most of the people that post on these threads have a pirated version of iForce.
Taiwan has the greatest number of fake one star ratings. In fact recently iForce had a 1.5 star rating in Taiwan. I think it's amazing how moral fiber is so different from one country to another. In Mexico, iForce has a 4.5 star rating.
I just wanted to set the record straight about this app.
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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MAOmagic
New user
Columbus
97 Posts
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 2:36am
That's ridiculous. It's 2.99. Why pirate that? Why download it illegally. It's such a good app, people should just pay. I've seen the android one and it is definitely not superior to iForce. iForce is tops in my book, and many other magicians I know.
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Mercury52
Inner circle
Kevin Reylek
1756 Posts
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 7:00am
Hi Greg. Just updated to the new iPhone 4 and iOS4, and ran into some interesting glitches when updating "the work" for iForce. Any guess as to when the app might be updated? For the meantime I'm stuck without it!
Kevin
Kevin Reylek
www.thebluecrown.com
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Jason Simonds
Regular user
Pensacola, FL
103 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 4:02pm
I'll give you 5 stars if you give me a version for my Droid.
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 4:07pm
Hi Kevin,
I don't have an iPhone 4 yet. But my partner Randy just got one and the problem is what I'd suspected. The higher resolution of iPhone 4 isn't compatible with the 2nd and 3rd methods of iForce. We're already working on it.
Sorry about the delay, but in the next 2 weeks you'll see a new iForce update to be compatible with iOS 4.
In the mean time, if you want to use the 2nd and 3rd methods, you can transfer the images to your mac, down res them by 50% and then sync those smaller images back to your iPhone 4. If you use these smaller images, it should work fine.
stay tuned,
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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bugjack
Inner circle
New York, New York
1502 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 4:41pm
HI Greg,
I feel like a jerk for asking after what's been previous on this thread, but are you still planning an iPad version?
Scott
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Mercury52
Inner circle
Kevin Reylek
1756 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 7:53pm
Thanks for the update Greg! I'll drop you a line soon to talk about a few other things floating around in my head...
Kevin
Kevin Reylek
www.thebluecrown.com
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J.Robert
Loyal user
Gettysburg, PA
240 Posts
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Posted: Jun 26, 2010 12:16am
I'm also waiting for the iPad version. Purchased the phone version, but it could look so much better on the HD screen!
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jun 26, 2010 4:52am
The iPad version is in the works guys.
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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Scott Cram
Inner circle
2477 Posts
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Posted: Jun 26, 2010 12:38pm
Like iForce on the iPhone, and have a favorite routine with it that you use (ESP symbols/Coin flips/etc.)?
Here's a tip for the upcoming iPad version, assuming you don't have your iPad yet: Order your iPad from the online Apple Store, and you'll get free engraving. When asked for the engraving during your online order, have it be a simple prediction, such as "You will choose the wavy lines" or "You will select HTH" or whatever you've noticed your audiences pick more often than others.
That way, you have an extra punch for your iForce routine!
Grey Matters:Blog|Videos|Mental Gym|Presentation|Store
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jun 27, 2010 4:12pm
If this is supposed to be a Trade Secret, why is it advertised here?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=812490
Seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot.
"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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J.Robert
Loyal user
Gettysburg, PA
240 Posts
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Posted: Jun 28, 2010 10:39am
Wow, lot of lay people checking it out on the macrumors site! I'm especially impressed by this clown: "I wouldn't buy it till there is a scientific explanation because I don't believe in magic, ghosts, astrology, gods and anything that is claimed to be "supernatural" work."
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jun 28, 2010 1:46pm
I see your point but there are many people who do like magic and while the effects can be presented without making yourself look like you have special powers, some people (shut eyes) will want to "believe" you do even if you tell them it's not real. So the onus is on the performer.
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All I was saying (previous post) was, the inventor advertises his effect to the masses which is a catch 22. His goal is to stop being a salesman but at what expense... Selling the App to every 12 year old may make him some money initially, however the usefulness of the App will be zero when too many people get their hands on it and ultimately no sales will be made at all.
Almost like the Tortoise and the Hair.. the answer lies in having several programs, sold to magicians ONLY AND then a dozen more for non-magicians. THEN you can think about being self-made.
P.S. There are also reviews on this product by mainstream Emagazines (just do a G search to see it for yourself). One poster said that it would take time for someone to actually learn the program before they could cause you aggravation but all they need to do is know the key that unlocks the door and that's it. Without memorizing anything, they can swipe your show from out, from under you.
"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jun 29, 2010 6:13am
Hi Jay,
Thank you very much for your input.
As I've said in a previous post . . . if I was to sell to only 1% of the 80 million iPhones/iPod Touches out there, I would have to sell 73,000 copies of iForce, every DAY, for THREE YEARS . . . just to sell to 1% !!
Selling 73,000 apps a day is impossible . . . the top apps are lucky to sell 10,000 apps a day.
Based on the above observation, you're more likely to find someone that knows about the Invisible Deck then you are to find someone that knows about iForce.
take care,
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jun 29, 2010 6:23am
Quote:
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On 2010-06-24 02:36, MAOmagic wrote:
That's ridiculous. It's 2.99. Why pirate that? Why download it illegally. It's such a good app, people should just pay. I've seen the android one and it is definitely not superior to iForce. iForce is tops in my book, and many other magicians I know.
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Thank you for your support MAOmagic.
In this age of software piracy, even if your app was 1 cent it would still be pirated.
There have been many experiments on the internet to demonstrate this unfortunate fact. Obviously, the only time something is not pirated is when it's free.
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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Sam Weiss
Loyal user
Stratford, CT should have more than
278 Posts
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Posted: Jun 29, 2010 11:09am
I'm sorry to hear this Greg...
However, you're in the wrong business if you are trying to make a profit by selling magic. Magic is not meant to be a business, rather if you release an item, the point is to have other MAGICIANS learn useful subject matter from it. In no way should you be trying to support your family by selling magic... it just can't happen. Selling magic of any form to the general public is also wrong for the same reasons Jay mentioned above.
That being said, I think iForce looks like a great app and you should try to keep it as low profile as possible since there are probably already a bunch of non-magicians who have it (even if your sales are "low"). In the hands of a good magician this has good potential... not so much in laymen.
Sam
"There's something that gets in your soul when you study magic,it's in your heart, and when you perform it comes across the footlights and into everybody else's heart..."
-Denny Haney
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Jay Jennings
Regular user
Alaska (and beyond)
141 Posts
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Posted: Jul 1, 2010 3:31am
Quote:
| However, you're in the wrong business if you are trying to make a profit by selling magic. Magic is not meant to be a business, rather if you release an item, the point is to have other MAGICIANS learn useful subject matter from it. In no way should you be trying to support your family by selling magic... it just can't happen. |
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Sheesh, what a load of garbage. Is it okay if people make a living selling a magic performance, just not magic props/acts themselves? Pffft.
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I think the problem with iForce is the price. I know at one point you went from 2.99 to 4.99 for 3-4 days and then dropped it again because you said it killed the sales.
But is iForce worth $20? If it is, then why aren't you selling it for that price? No, you won't sell as many, but you also don't have to have as many sales to make the same amount. Plus, you probably wouldn't have to worry about the fake ratings because you don't have to worry about as many morons buying it.
Do you want to sell to the masses or do you want a great rep among magicians for the stuff you create? I think having both would be very difficult to do.
Maybe it's too late for iForce, but the next time you come out with an app that's aimed at magicians, why not price it based on what it's worth?
Jay Jennings
Discover how to create your own iOS and Android games! http://MasteringCoronaSDK.com
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Sam Weiss
Loyal user
Stratford, CT should have more than
278 Posts
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Posted: Jul 1, 2010 1:56pm
I'm saying it's not good to JUST sell magic to make a living... from just what has been said here it sounds like Greg only sells magic and doesn't perform it that often (please correct me if I am wrong as my view is only based on what is read here). Why would someone want to buy something magic if its sole purpose was to create money rather than meaningful material perfected through years of actual performing?
Greg for all I know might actually perform, just not for pay... in that case I think it's fine to do what he's doing because he has the expertise to create and test such an effect.
Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I said... I think Greg's product looks great and I am considering getting it.
"There's something that gets in your soul when you study magic,it's in your heart, and when you perform it comes across the footlights and into everybody else's heart..."
-Denny Haney
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Jay Jennings
Regular user
Alaska (and beyond)
141 Posts
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Posted: Jul 1, 2010 2:59pm
Quote:
| Greg for all I know might actually perform, just not for pay... in that case I think it's fine to do what he's doing because he has the expertise to create and test such an effect. |
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Ah, okay, Sam, I didn't get what you were trying to convey. And while I still may not agree with it completely, I do think someone with at *least* a performing background is more likely to create something worth performing than a "marketer" who sees this niche as a ripe target.
Jay Jennings
Discover how to create your own iOS and Android games! http://MasteringCoronaSDK.com
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jul 2, 2010 3:49am
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On 2010-06-28 13:46, jay leslie wrote:
Selling the App to every 12 year old may make him some money initially, however the usefulness of the App will be zero when too many people get their hands on it and ultimately no sales will be made at all.
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I don't think people are reading my post about the math concerning this matter. I am SO tempted to tell everyone exactly how little iForce has sold over the last 8 months just so that everyone realizes how unbelievably ridiculous the notion of "every 12 year old" and "too many people get their hands on it" really is.
OK . . . here goes another one of my attempts at clarifying the math behind the sales of iForce.
The most widely sold app on the app store is Doodle Jump.
It has been on sale for the last 16 months (480 days)
It sales about 10,000 copies every day at a price of $0.99 (the developer keeps $0.70 of that)
So far it has sold 4.8 Million copies making the developer a cool $3.36 Million.
As the most popular app on the app store, isn't it amazing to realize that Doodle Jump is only on 4.8% of the iPhones in the world. That means that less than 1 of 20 iPhone owners knows about Doodle Jump or even cares.
At this rate Doodle Jump will have to sell for another 20 years before it can saturate the existing iPhone market!!!
Doodle Jump is 50 TIMES more popular than iForce. That means to saturate the iPhone market iForce will have to sell for 1000 YEARS!!!!!
Since there are 100 Million iPhones and 6.7 Billion people . . . after 1000 years, when the entire iPhone market has been saturated by iForce, the chances of you performing iForce for someone that knows about it is 1 in 67.
NOW, can we all please stop talking about how iForce is getting "too popular to be useful"!!!
I'm sorry if I'm so upset about this . . . but this is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that has led people to give me one star ratings in the first place.
Greg Rostami
SEE through their eyes.
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Philemon Vanderbeck
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
2867 Posts
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Posted: Jul 2, 2010 1:48pm
I'm not worried about running into someone who knows about iForce BEFORE I perform for them; I'm worried about the person finding it AFTER I performed it for them.
However, you did solve that problem by releasing a plain version of the Doodle app separately (and for that I profusely thank you).
Now one of the things I learned in Business Analysis was figuring out the optimum price for a product based on the greatest profit margin achievable. For instance, you don't want to sell 100 copies of a product at a $1 profit, when you can sell 10 copies at $20 profit.
And to be honest, it is extremely rare that anyone gets rich selling (or even performing) magic.
But seriously, I think people would be less inclined to give your product a false one-star review (if that's your primary concern) if they had to pay a lot more for it. There's actually a bit of psychology at play here, where a purchaser will actually rate the quality of a product influenced by the price they paid for it. Why else do people pay so much for Rolex watches and Mont Blanc pens?
We now live in an age where our audiences can google on their cell phones the secrets of an effect we're performing AS WE'RE PERFORMING IT. And some of the truly obnoxious ones have no qualms about blurting out the secret in as loud of a voice as possible, thus ruining the magical experience for everyone.
While there is certainly more to magic than just secrets, that moment of wonder should be protected as much as possible.
- Philemon Vanderbeck
Elemental Entertainment
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 2, 2010 9:55pm
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But seriously, I think people would be less inclined to give your product a false one-star review (if that's your primary concern) if they had to pay a lot more for it. There's actually a bit of psychology at play here, where a purchaser will actually rate the quality of a product influenced by the price they paid for it. Why else do people pay so much for Rolex watches and Mont Blanc pens?
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Actually in Psychology class we did a study (many years ago) and people were either paid 2 dollars or 20 dollars to "test" a drink. The drink didn't taste very good on purpose. The study was really about how people would react rating the taste.
People who were paid 2 dollars usually said that the drink tasted fine, where people who were paid 20 told the truth. We surmised that people who were paid less thought we didn't value their opinion so they told us what we wanted to hear - so they could get out of there and wash their mouth out. People who were paid 20, went on and on about why the drink was bad because (we surmised) they believed their opinion was important.
I believe what you are referring to with high priced items is the Inverse Pricing Strategy which is a different but related subject. This is a strategy to make someone buy something because it was more exclusive and better.
All I was alluding to in my previous posts was that I didn't think it was right to advertise this product to non magicians.
I have since bought the program and have to admit that sometimes I'm lazy. In this case I haven't performed any part of it for anyone yet because I'm working on a routine. I have also bought the Biz Card and 20 minutes later I was up and down the complex showing it to people who would never book me but it's fun anyway.
We may be into a situation where (I see it all the time) people want push-button magic. This all started about 20 years ago. I've seen lots of people come into the shop buying tricks - who don't want to practice - don't want to read - don't want to do any work.
When I stared learning magic there were no video tapes, DVDs or internet, I took lessons and had to perform what I learned the week before, before I was taught anything new. The number of people who buy tricks as opposed to developing an act is now a much wider gap then years ago.
So
It could be that some people purchasing this product are looking for a quick-fix. When they see they have to learn something they don't get mad at themselves, they have misplaced anger... so if they can't work the program immediately... and "can't" get mad at themselves then who do you think they'll blame. That's right, the program. This is an axiom in psych called "People do the opposite of who they are" and it's all about insecurities.
An assumption that people are sabotaging someone because they don't want anyone else to have the same benefit is absolutely true in some circumstances but it's also true that people who complain that something is too good... may actually have an inferiority complex, because they can't master it, so they do the opposite of what's really happening. They don't want to admit that they are incapable of mastering the system, so you are to blame. Ever see a kid take a temper tantrum when they couldn't get what they wanted?
The answer may be in instructions that help idiots (like myself) be capable of performing an entire routine without getting so caught-up in the methodology.
I manufacturer and sell a product that switches cards and other objects. I have the same problem with people, because they want a routine that's packaged from the beginning to the end. They don't want to think. I understand. When that prop is sold as a switching device, people ask "So what do I do with it" and when it's sold as a Bank Night Out they either buy it or not. If they do, they have a routine with a beginning, middle and end, no complaints.
I also know that one magic item will never put anyone on easy street, blame the internet - next week something newer, bigger, more fantastic will hit the market and you're on the back burner. It happens to every inventor in the business no matter how they crunch the numbers. Very few items sell in the thousands. usually an item hits, sells well then drops off. You then make improvements and reintroduce it after a time.
Anyway, I'm going the the IBM convention and will sit with others who also have the program so I can see their handling and maybe settle on a routine. I like it and will eventually use it and I promise not to give it one-star.
Your brother in the magical arts.
Jay
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"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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J.Robert
Loyal user
Gettysburg, PA
240 Posts
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Posted: Jul 3, 2010 8:16am
Jay, I'll see you there (and I'll bring my iPad)! -Jason (J.R.)
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 3, 2010 1:43pm
I'm packing now.
"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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SWNerndase
Regular user
143 Posts
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Posted: Jul 3, 2010 4:00pm
I noticed a new magic app at iTunes priced at $65. I don't know the quality of the app, but will be interested to see what happens with sales and ratings.
I'd wager that if his app is good, he won't have the 1 star problem.
SWN
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 3, 2010 4:24pm
That's probably true. People who buy the Rolex brand (I have 2) usually don't put them down.
The old proverb is: You can get the same advice for free from a bartender or pay 300 dollars to a psychiatrist but you'll listen to the psychaitrist because you're more invested.
That's why magic companys charged for catalogs. If you got a free catalog, then it didn't have much value.
"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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espmagic
Special user
730 Posts
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Posted: Jul 3, 2010 10:00pm
Greg -
I don't even have an iPhone, but I'd certainly like to find this app for the Palm that I'm using! I think it is fantastic!
Lee
"Let it be simple and pure, because miracles are simple and pure."
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jay leslie
V.I.P.
southern california
6387 Posts
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Posted: Jul 4, 2010 6:17pm
To back-up my earlier thoughts here is a recent study on the effects of socialisation when you are in control (either having money or something of power, which can also be equated to having a mastery of something). There are several elements to the study, so you'll have to read the whole thing.
http://www.csom.umn.edu/assets/127771.pdf
One of the points it makes is that having something of worth makes you less likely to care what others think. How it relates to my earlier posts above is that, if a person pays a small fee for something but can not achieve success with it, they are more prone to complain because it has less value. If they can master it then they feel more in control and secure in their own right.
This above study does not cover the only reason the program is getting knocked but it may have some value when considering that higher prices would attract a different clientele but would also impact sales. If anyone knows how well that expensive program does, I would be interested to know.
"He who has the most toys, when they die.... makes it impossible to sell them, all at once" JL
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com
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Greg Rostami
V.I.P.
Skynet will become self-aware in
1318 Posts
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Posted: Jul 6, 2010 4:53am
Dear friends,
iForce v 1.4 was just submitted to Apple for approval.
Here are the new features for the new version of iForce:
* iOS 4 compatibility
* Hi-resolution graphics designed for the new Retina display
* Springboard image compatibility
* Chinese and Spanish localization
May the iForce be with you! 
Greg Rostami
P.S. The BIG new features are coming soon in iForce Pro . . .
SEE through their eyes.
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