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Davit Sicseek
Inner circle
1787 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 7:05pm
Quote:
| I took the liberty of writing Steve Brooks to notify him of this thread. Since the people hurt by the illegal downloading of magic materials are those who pay to advertise here on The Magic Café and help support keeping it in operation.
Or, in other words ... the only reason those of you justifying thievery have a voice on this forum is because the people you are stealing from make it possible. |
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That's a circular arguement. The reason why creators pay to advertise is because of the potential customers already here. It's a symbiotic relationship.
I've only seen one person in this thread justify theivery - well actually he was justifying copyright infringment. But still, I feel the overwhelming voice of the community is that this type of distribution of frequents is immoral.
Quote:
| Davit, I agree with Richard on this statement: |
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I agree with it was well. Seems that all but one person in this entire thread agrees with it. It's not in dispute. They question is - what shall be done?
Iain: No comment 
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Mike Ince
Inner circle
1313 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 7:07pm
I'm convinced the subject of "ethics" isn't as nebulous as many would like to believe.
If you were the creator, how would you feel if someone did (fill in the blank) to you and your material? And be honest with your response. The Golden Rule still works. Just because everyone's broken it at some point doesn't negate the validity of the rule. It shouldn't be thrown out.
I talked to a local performer last night who admitted to downloading a torrent of a limited-release DVD. It was easy for him to justify... "it's the only way I could get hold of it." That's probably not true. I don't' think he posted a "WTB" ad or contacted the creator for tips on finding a copy. And then there's the reason for a limited relase... so everyone doesn't have it and it remains exclusive? Duh.
I performed for an audience of drunken mimes. They hurled invisible bottles at me.
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chichi711
Inner circle
5816 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 7:10pm
Quote:
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On 2010-04-09 18:39, marcgettmann wrote:
One interesting anecdote concerning this internet thing.
I did a corporate show the other day, performing the himberring routing. A few guys googled on their smartphones linking finger rings and boom, got to the dealers. You name them.
The effect was almost ruined, forget all the subtletys when a few guys find locking fingerrings on magicdealersites. I got out of it somehow. But it was a difficult experience.
The last years, a magic market has developed, where you can earn money by not performing magic, but by selling secrets. Or others secrets, or variatons of others secrets.
Perhaps the internet forces us, to keep secrets and to go back to the old teacher-scholar thing. Otherwise, magic will be a sellout, worthless sidegag. I mean nowadays, you can buy, download almost all secrets via the internet. Why is that? You all know the answer. Money.
But of course it is not right to download the work of Mr. Osterlind for free, no doubt about it.
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I google search a name and or description of everything I perform. If it is easy to find I either don't purchase it, or use it. Paranoid? Maybe, but the reality is we carry computers in our pockets these days and everyone knows how easy it is to google information. We are way off track here, but I have often complained of magic sellers putting descriptions, videos, etc easy to find via google, or youtube etc. It all comes back to money.
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stashu
Regular user
155 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 7:24pm
LOL, I'm just as paranoid since I was heckled
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chichi711
Inner circle
5816 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 7:31pm
Sad really because many of the best products don't get purchased by me for that reason. Something creators might want to start thinking about, because I think this trend that stashu and I are on will become more and more popular.
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MentalistCreationLab
Special user
873 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 8:27pm
Stashu and Chichi711 have a very good point.
http://glisk.weebly.com/
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RCP
Inner circle
Republic of Texas
1141 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 8:28pm
Richard you are a class act and I don't disagree with a thing you have said. It's one of the costs of doing business! Just like shoplifting. Every business has these costs and your no different. The flip side is the outrageously advertised, over priced junk sold as "secrets". Not referring to anything you have ever done, as I said you're a classy guy. Buyer and sellers beware!
A vivid imagination is not enlightenment.
Don't part with your illusions..when they are gone you may still exist....but you have ceased to live.
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Richard Osterlind
V.I.P.
1989 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 8:49pm
RCP,
I appreciate that very much. I guess what I find so upsetting is the fact that we are talking about MAGICIANS using free downloads. See, RCP, I always thought of the fraternity as a "special" group of people. People who respected other performer's property and understood just how hard it is to create and produce our materials, whether it be books, props or videos. To have no respect for that is, to me, outrageous.
And as far as the argument that dealers have merchandise anyone can find and order, that is another empty excuse for thievery. The average person who is not a magician, won't spend more than $5 to learn a secret. But if they can get it for free, that's a different story. Any magician who supports these torrents is helping that cause and is simply not worthy to be called a magician.
Bad behavior is bad behavior and no amount of lame justifications or (un)clever arguments about moral ambiguity are worth even discussing.
Richard
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brody
Inner circle
Omaha
1137 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 9:07pm
Benji:
I know you were only giving examples. I was merely showing you what terrible examples they were. Show me a sustainable and repeatable business model that works, not some one-off gag and gimmick.
The music industry, the movie industry, the publishing industry, and even the magic industry would love to know what it is.
What I'm afraid of is that the "change" you are telling us to embrace may turn out to be for the worse, not the better.
And, if we can't appeal to morals and ethics, especially among ourselves, then maybe you can tell us what we can use.
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MentalistCreationLab
Special user
873 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 9:21pm
The point I read with Stashu and Chichi711 is that they and others are not buying certain products to use in their show. Because, these products are too widely available on the market. Not, that they are stealing them, (if they are shame on them) more over they are not even considering purchase of this effects based on the over availability in the market place. Since these are carried by every dealer and that each performer wants to stand apart from the rest. That is what I read. As I could be reading something that is not even there.
I too have found my work on these sites and yes, I am not happy about it.
Richard, The real question is how can we as a group fix this problem of torrent site and those who upload work to them? I for one will be open to any ideas. Yes, I think the problem started long before the computer age. As you may recall some dealer made copies of printed works and sold them at their magic shops. Yes, they even made bootlegs of some effects as well. So this issue must be looked at as a whole and as a group we must find a solution.
http://glisk.weebly.com/
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RCP
Inner circle
Republic of Texas
1141 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 9:39pm
Thanks Richard, and again I agree with everything you said. I guess what I am trying to convey to you is not to take it so personally. I do understand! I do a lot of cases for free in my line of work. I don't like it one bit BUT it's the cost of doing business and I end up with a lot of extra work as a result. I have a charmed life and I choose to look at what I have as opposed to what's been stolen from me. I know it's frustrating for you but it is the reality of our times. I gave up expecting much from my peers a long time ago. We meet back in the 80's at a lecture in Dallas. You changed my outlook on magic. Don't despair, perhaps a new opportunity awaits you for an even greater fortune.
A vivid imagination is not enlightenment.
Don't part with your illusions..when they are gone you may still exist....but you have ceased to live.
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Richard Osterlind
V.I.P.
1989 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 9:52pm
MentalistCreationLab,
See, that was supposed to be the purpose of my first post. To draw attention to how wrong free downloads are and to have more experienced performers speak out and show their outrage, too. Someone has to upload these materials in the first place and you know they are probably magicians. Possibly some of them are reading this right now.
The right thing to do is for everyone to show outrage. Many did but you have a number of members here who try to divert the argument, moralize it away or even openly admit they do it and its OK!!! That bothers me.
As to what I am going to do about it? I will tell you. First, we have discontinued any ebooks. Next, we will only be selling through our website. Some new items coming out will be very exclusive. Most new items will be props. I don't expect to do any more DVD's. If a book is involved it will be very high priced and sold to only a few.
Richard
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Richard Osterlind
V.I.P.
1989 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 10:02pm
Quote:
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On 2010-04-09 21:39, RCP wrote:
Thanks Richard, and again I agree with everything you said. I guess what I am trying to convey to you is not to take it so personally. I do understand! I do a lot of cases for free in my line of work. I don't like it one bit BUT it's the cost of doing business and I end up with a lot of extra work as a result. I have a charmed life and I choose to look at what I have as opposed to what's been stolen from me. I know it's frustrating for you but it is the reality of our times. I gave up expecting much from my peers a long time ago. We meet back in the 80's at a lecture in Dallas. You changed my outlook on magic. Don't despair, perhaps a new opportunity awaits you for an even greater fortune.
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RCP,
Again, thanks. I also feel very blessed about my own career and you have to know that what bothers me more than any personal lose is the attitude that some have about all this.
It sure isn't the same as when I began and to just toss up my hands and say, "Well, times are changing!" is not good enough for me. There are plenty of older magicians who would like it to be like it once was and probably a lot of younger magicians who can only imagine and hope it could become like that.
I sometimes wonder, how many magicians on here are members of the IBM or SAM? Don't they still have rules against exposure and bad behavior within the guild?
At one time magicial knowledge was at a premium. You couldn't just get it by asking. You had to earn it. We need more of that now.
Richard
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mormonyoyoman
Inner circle
I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only
2317 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 10:09pm
Man, I go to visit my mother for a day and look at all I miss!
I am stunned that so many people think it's all right to steal, and that it makes it "better" to use a different word than "steal." (Well, there's one person here whose attitude doesn't surprise me.) Perhaps these are the days we've heard about, in which Evil is called Good and Good is called Evil.
It's not surprising that there are many people who are evil -- it's surprising that they boast about it, and want to justify it.
*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
This font is so tiny that no one can read these things.
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Davit Sicseek
Inner circle
1787 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 11:03pm
Quote:
| I am stunned that so many people think it's all right to steal, and that it makes it "better" to use a different word than "steal." (Well, there's one person here whose attitude doesn't surprise me.) Perhaps these are the days we've heard about, in which Evil is called Good and Good is called Evil. |
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I'm guessing this is directed at me.
I've said several times in this thread alone that obtaining secrets without paying some form of recompense to the publisher is wrong. That INCLUDES online piracy. It also includes a bunch of other methods of sharing which I believe or morally equivilant. If anything my position is more hard line than most.
As for using a different word that 'steal'.... I call a spade a spade, I say what I mean and I mean what I saw. Stealing is stealing. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement. Anyone who reads that link I posted at the start of the thread will realise that they are two different things... But that they were both wrong.
Let's be clear is what we say, clear in the arguments we are making and clear in the problem we are trying to solve. It simply juvenilises the discussion when one starts to use inapproproate terms.
I'M VERY OUTRAGED ABOUT THIS! AND WHAT I'M GOING TO DO TO SOLVE THE SITUATION IS REPEATEDLY TELL EVERYONE HOW OUTRAGED I AM AND I'M GOING TO TELL MY FRIENDS THAT THEY ALSO BETTER BE OUTRAGED AS WELL . . . . AND THEY MUST CALLED IT S_T_E_A_L_I_N_G! BECAUSE THAT WILL FIX THINGS! (see... I can do sarcasm too)
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Sid Helkule
Inner circle
Australia
1465 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 11:05pm
I abhor those who think it is fine to download mentalism/magic secrets in any form.
I just wanted to voice my position on this AGAIN because some people posting here are claiming that many in this thread don't care or are trying to justify it. I don't want to be lumped in with them.
Many times on the Café I have attempted to get people discussing prevention methods for file sharing (especially eBooks), and originally that was my goal with starting imentalism. If we all worked together (those of us who care) I think we could make a difference.
It's hard to rally the troops though.
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MentalistCreationLab
Special user
873 Posts
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Posted: Apr 9, 2010 11:42pm
Richard, I think you have a good plan, everyone who need to know, knows your works are very fine indeed and will be worth the asking price. It is a sad thing when you have to result to removing your ebook line. I love ebooks and will continue releasing the my work in this manner. Since, I have a dislike for printers. I will continue to watch this topic very closely.
Thanks again Richard for starting this fine topic.
http://glisk.weebly.com/
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RSD
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
529 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 3:59am
Sollution is to put tonnes of fake torrents out there so that people cant differentiate the real from the fake. They will have to download so much crap before they get to the actual file that they want. And hey wouldnt it be a shame if the real or fake files had a virus in it?
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askernas
Loyal user
Sweden
284 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 4:21am
So, yet another mentalist throws himself into this thread...
Speaking as a performer of mentalism without any published effects at the moment, but, like Richard, someone who has released music in the past...
First off. Just because someone downloads a file illegally, doesn't mean that it is a "lost sale". Most of the people that are hording things like this are collectors. They like to have have it "just because".
Sadly, with torrents or p2p sites/clients, it does have the effect that it makes the copyrighted material available for millions of people.
I am a collector myself, but in a different manner. I have a mentalism library of my own, consisting at the moment of roughly 300 (physical) books. It is books that I treasure, that I value, and that my fiancee thinks takes up way too much space.
In these tomes, there are more material than I'll ever need in 10 lifetimes of performing, yet I continue to buy books. Books that are put on a stack labelled "to read" . I wonder if I'll ever have time to read them all.
I am just putting this as a perspective, that the behaviour of many people who download, is to horde, to keep to have "just in case", but often, things are not read.
It is sad when people are "hunting down" specific pirated works on the internet, simply because they want it. However, since many books are out of print, they can not be acquired by normal means. Not that the ones who horde stuff would buy it anyway
Anyway, I digress.
It took 2 weeks until my debut album with my band was found on an FTP site (as was the norm back in 2002, this was before torrents). For me, personally, it meant two things.
1. We were considered big enough to pirate.
2. Our album was never reprinted, and the whole recording of the album was a big loss.
Even worse a few years later, when we were playing at a music festival, and I had printed (out of my own pocket) a promotion single, that was given out for free to the people attending that festival.
A few months later, I found this cd-single for SALE at an mp3 site. ie: people would BUY the mp3's.
Not only was it pirated, but other people were selling illegal digital copies of my work.
Like it has been mentioned before, it is a HUGE difference inbetween "Hey, this is a great book, it really inspired me. I'll lend it to you if you want to read it." and "Hey this is a great book, thanks for lending it to me. I scanned it to have my own copy!".
The discussion about copyright and music is something that has been going on for years. Ever since the recordable cassettes came into action. That did not have as big effect on the music business as the internet, since the digital format and communication opened up a landslide.
Musicians are still making music. Music companies have been forced to find other ways of working. Movie companies are now churning out 3D movies to make people go to the movies again rather than download movies.
These businesses have been forced to change.
Maybe the magic business needs to change?
I am not saying that it would be a better world where you would only learn from your masters, but in some ways I think it would be!
I have seen wonderful effects completely destroyed in the hands of (adult) people who bought the trick off a dealer (not pirated) and read the instructions for 2 minutes and rushes out to perform the effect for anyone around who cares to watch.
I have no solution for this.
I know that as things are right now, digital piracy is there. it is so easy to copy digital material, and copy protection doesn't help at all. If someone wants to copy something, they can do it. That is the harsh truth we have.
I have several ebooks that are password protected with my name. Since I work in the IT business, I know that this is really only somethign that effects people who doesn't know much about these things.
There are other digital options. Perhaps encryption with public and private encryption keys?
It is widely used in the internet business, but it would be (more) expensive, and could create a big problem when/if the private key is lost.
Anyway, my point to the whole thread is:
Maybe the business of learning/teaching magic has to change someway?
Either in the materials used, perhaps new technology needs to crop up (which has to come from other businesses first, as the magic community is too small to afford creating something like that) or the ways things are taught needs to change.
I googled just a few days ago, and found most of my songs with my band on yet *another* site, that just lists links to p2p sites where my music is hosted...
I have no answers, but once a file is out on a p2p or torrent site, it is virtually impssible to stop it. Unfortunately.
Micke Askernäs
www.askernas.com
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OldNick
Regular user
Dresden/Germany
111 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 5:34am
In my opinion there are more things to bring into play. I wonder nobody reacted to Mark Gettmanns post:
Quote:
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On 2010-04-09 18:39, marcgettmann wrote:
...
The last years, a magic market has developed, where you can earn money by not performing magic, but by selling secrets. Or others secrets, or variatons of others secrets.
Perhaps the internet forces us, to keep secrets and to go back to the old teacher-scholar thing. Otherwise, magic will be a sellout, worthless sidegag.
...
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I second that opinion. Out trade only exist because of the secrets. But the way secrets are handled nowadays you cannot really call them "secrets" anymore.
from Wikipedia:
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"A secret is a piece of information that one person or a group of people know, and do not want others (either everyone, or certain people) to know." |
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As soon as you start to sell "secrets" on the internet, make them available through multiple magic dealers/shops, where millions of people, world wide, have access, and all this for a low price (as usual these days) you already removed the "secret" part of the term (see definition above). Add to this all the video "previews" on youtube or other places.
Not mention the fact we are living in an age where information is everything. Every 10 year old boy has access to the internet. They are confronted with the flood of magic/mentalism effects, book, videos, every one hyped as better than the rest. 15 years before we had to ask our parents for some money to buy "this great book from this dealers catalogue". I can remember times when here in Germany we had only a handful of "big" dealers which spread their calatogues over the country, but only to people which asked for. My neighbour didn't even know about the existence of such a secret world.
In my opinion todays "overkill" combined with our "need" for information is one part which legitimates illegal free downloading and sharing in the minds of many.
For me there are not much ways to stop those bad things. Words like these from Mr. Osterlind in his first post of this thread are only a small part of the whole for a real solution. His words will not reach most of the minds of them he want to listen.
Other ways could be:
- make the prices higher but only do limited amounts
- go back to physical mediums, at first place: books
- share your secrets (if you are in need to share them) with only hand-picked people
The drawback would be: the magic crowd would reduce in number, some online sellers would go under, and you all woudn´t anymore have such a easy life to get new secrets. But as the "secrets" are the base of our art, and we care for our art, I would say its worth more than that!
Heve fun,
OldNick
PS: sorry for my humble english, its not my main language
The Stigma Square - THE date magic square
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rasp
Veteran user
322 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 7:25am
I think the best solution would be for Richard and all the other creative genius, to keep their secrets to themselves. I have always been envious of these creative people, and made many purchases over the years, some great, some good and some bad. Yes I will hold my hands up and say I have also obtained "secrets" by the wrong methods as well, as I am sure many others on this site have, but don't have the guts to admit it.
For me personally the reason is because of the challenge. It has nothing to do with wanting to steal from someone (although I do admit that is exactly what I am doing), and I don't do it because I "need" to know, or indeed want to perform that particular effect. For me it is the thrill of the chase, the harder it is to obtain the secret the better, because if and when I do I relish in the feeling it gives. Stupid I know, but that is also the reason most computer hackers do what they do. Not to cause havoc (although I know from experience that some do) but because they know they shouldn't.
If the creative amongst us didn't feel the need to sell every single idea they had, it would force others like myself to concentrate on the performance side, and to hone our skills, which would also be of a great benefit to the spectator.
I have a friend in Bournemouth, Mike Danata, who has a fantastic little shop. A better person to buy from you will not find. Mike is honest, a true gentleman who will give an honest review before you buy, even to the point where he talks himself out of a sale ! His business has suffered, purely because too many effects are being released everyday. Not many people want to purchase what they class as old tricks, they all want to buy what is being released today, or coming soon. They are searching for the Grail. It is impossible for people like Mike to be expected to stock every single new item that is released. I love the internet, and at the same time I hate it.
I wish I had the creative juices to invent tricks like others do, but I know I don't. Yes I would suffer if Richard and the others held back selling their stuff, but no pain no gain.
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Richard Osterlind
V.I.P.
1989 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 10:00am
Rasp,
Let me try to explain something here. Let's talk about my Mind Mysteries series as that was my first video in over 10 years.
I did all that material for most of my life in front of paying audiences. I worked hard and took a whole lot of knocks until I got it down right. When I decided to release MM I agonized about just how much to give away. I finally decided to do the right thing and not hold anything back. I put over 20 years of experience into those recordings and told how to do material I am still making a living from. The money I got for doing that series was what I make doing ONE show. But I did it because I wanted my material to be remembered and used, and because I really wanted others to understand how it good it felt doing my stuff and to see their audiences reactions.
I put priceless material in that series. Today, many mentalists use some of that mentlism in their acts. Some use a lot. As a matter of fact, and I know this from as many emails I have received over the years, there are hundreds of performers making big money using my material! I have actually changed the professional lives of many performers working today. And I am proud of that!
And now someone comes along, and steals that materials by making an illegal digital copy of it, puts in on an Internet web site and GIVES IT AWAY FREE TO ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADS IT!!!!
GIVES IT AWAY FREE!!!
You know what that makes me feel like? Do you know what I would like to do to anyone who does that or downloads that material for free?
Rasp, I am trying to be kind here, but it is not easy. You are ignornant for doing what you did. But I hope you stop and we can be friends. If you don't, then I hope I never meet you fact to face.
Richard
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John C
Inner circle
The AMAZING and COMMERCIAL Chair Test
6148 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 10:49am
Richard rasp is a fool trying to egg you on. See him for what he is.
My thinking is that fools/freeloaders that are not going to purchase our stuff anyway download it for free and store it somewhere. They don't use it.
The real thinkers purchase it and use it or get some other benefit from it.
Now, there's the other cheats that purchase it then give it to their club to rent or share around. I think those are the real people that ought to be sunk with the Titanic.
Just my opinion.
J
The ULTIMATE Routine Series:
www.professionalmagicroutines.com
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Dr. Eamon
Inner circle
1024 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 10:58am
Some will not like this, but I post it anyway. First of all, I agree that pirating (like rapid share) is WRONG!
BUT I would like to add one or two important facts to this topic:
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DEALERS are making it too easy to search for effects and find other (secret) info!
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The internet magic shops will sell to everyone that put money on the table and are too easy to find for laymen. Everyone can visit a magic shop on the internet and read all the effects, included prices and their names. (“Read minds in ten minutes by Uri Seller”… $9,95)
This makes it easy to do a search and download.
No dealer has a password protected site, or a way to enter only after answering some (real) questions. I only see this with performers who sell their own material, why not all internet magic shops?!
I know… money. (But at the end, I think, when it´s exclusive again it will be the same…)
TIP FOR CREATORS:
When I would release my own material to a shop, I would demand that they can only sell my stuff on a password or question protected place at their site (and I would not allow it to make it easy to get a password or allow to ask too easy questions!) I would ask a little more money to compensate for selling less but being more exclusive and if the dealer doesn´t want it like that… no deal!
Every creator should do this!!
Look at Hokos Pokos, Stavens Magic, Alikazam and many others, all the info that´s there for everyone to see. Also Libco, Promystac, Toyler Imagineering, Cesarlol they are all easy to find and look at all the info!?!? Or sites like Magicwuuk or even this forum. (We should not use full names and be more cryptic too)
TIP FOR WRITERS:
I´m working on a way to automatically personalize every e-book sold. Each buyer will have to agree with the terms and conditions (One of them is that they have to pay big money when a copy shows up…)
If we have so many tools, why not use them? Creators, dealers and performers that only go for the rapid money are also WRONG!
Best,
John
Presentation is everything!!!
Best wishes from the Netherlands!
(Sorry for my poor English)
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TonyB2009
Inner circle
3227 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 12:20pm
Just about everything has already been said on this thread, but I will say this. As an author I am very ****ed off at my stuff being stolen. I generally write true crime, and my first book was almost optioned twice for a movie. Both times the deal fell through. Now a film is being made on the subject matter of my first book, and I know they are using my material without my permission. And I can do *** all about it. My only hope is to watch the premiere, and if any of the information could have come from no other source but my book, then I might be able to get an injunction. Which will cost me thousands. But they might have hidden what they stole, so there will be nothing I can do.
I can understand Richard's frustration. Once a young magician handed me a sixteen page list of book and DVDs, and told me to tick off the ones I was interested in. He had downloaded them all off the internet, and was offering them (free) to every magician he knew.
I wish I knew a solution. The only one I have come up with is to set up my own rapidshare site, and infect the files with a vicious virus. If I knew how, I would certainly be tempted to do so.
Check out Tony's new thriller The Gilli Gilli Man at Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Gilli-Tony-Black-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B007GFD0NQ/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1363055541&sr=8-16&keywords=The+Gilli+Gilli+Man
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chmara
Inner circle
Tucson, AZ
1699 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 12:59pm
I can feel Richard's outrage and frustration, and reflect carefully on his call for morality in a historical sense.
As I remember - Moses had a similar problem in calling people to morality.
Every time there is a new communication technology introduced there is a major problem in protecting an originator's work from dissemination -- because the technological break through is usually made to make dissemination easier and broader.
This was true with the invention of movable type, type setting machines, rotary printing presses, radio, television (TV especially to vaudevillians who thrived on the same unchanged act for years) and now the net.
How we protect income to creators and originators was first introduced into the constitution of the USA with patents. Later Copyright came along because of people like Mark Twain. AND both had time limitations to protect both author and public.
The tempo of release and dissemination has increased not just in volume -- but in ways we as a species never envisioned possible in relation of time and distance. When I hit "Submit reply" below in less than 5 minutes this message will be available to the 45,000 members on the Café, plus untold thousands who lurk or browse.
The same is true for anything that is not somehow "copy protected" and invulnerable to cracking. Sometimes "cracking" may take a while -- but there are some pretty ingenious people who see no harm in removing profits (and motivation) for creators to work at making things better, different or unique.
These crackers have not learned that not everyone is represented a greedy over-reaching corporate entity who will sue and bring charges at the drop of a hat -- or can afford the resources to defend their right to profit for their original work for a reasonable time. They usually are of aware of their corrosive effect on the creative work of others -- like Richard who has spent years developing material that should rightfully be producing him a well earned income from its sale.
Often those crackers would rather make a fast buck literally stealing the material. Or if not money - the cracker wants the fast gotcha fame or notoriety of sticking it to what he or she perceives as "the big boys." The trouble is that too often they wipe out the interest of truly creative people with their short sitedness UNTIL society is able to develop a reasonable and affordable method of control of illegal distribution of protected works.
When a market for originality is as small and limited as is this one -- Richard is right on the money. Thievery is thievery. Receiving stolen goods remains just that. Being caught and called out should be of great interest but too many people are willing to forego the inconvenience of calling a crook a crook and the unpleasantness and cost of legal or criminal action against infringers.
Except the big boy corporations -- who then over-reach -- and the cycle gets worse...
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC
Tucson, AZ
C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments
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Dr. Eamon
Inner circle
1024 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 1:52pm
We have to stop talking about what's happening, and we have to talk about what to do about it and do all possible to protect your/our material!
Stop making it so easy, and dealers start using a password or question to visit your overinforming sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Presentation is everything!!!
Best wishes from the Netherlands!
(Sorry for my poor English)
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Dr. Eamon
Inner circle
1024 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 2:58pm
I'm very sorry for the creators and I really understand Richard but what about the buyers???
I have over 1000 original (bought and paid for!) books, last year I met someone with a list with almost 80% of my books on it, and he got them all for free... how do you think I felt?? How furious do you think this made me, after spending thousands and thousands of Dollars and even now it doesn´t make me feel very happy…
Presentation is everything!!!
Best wishes from the Netherlands!
(Sorry for my poor English)
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Amirá
Inner circle
World of Ideas
2931 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 3:43pm
When I start my journey in magic ,i download books and videos.
Later I understand that is bad for everyone ,include me.
But I think... if a non serious guy download any DVD or Book, yeah, he will have the secrets, but he will really appreciatte the potential ?
I didn't think so
He maybe will download (f.e ) the ETMMM by Mr. Osterlind, and didn't understand the real work behind, and just keep the file in the pc or maybe in a CD
Have Magic or Mentalism DVD and books doesn't transforrm into an illusionist or mentalist.
Imnot justify pirate stuff( of course), but I'm try to think in other POV
Pablo
Performer and Author
Are you looking for practical,simple and effective Mentalism?
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bdekolta
Inner circle
Texas
1017 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2010 3:49pm
Quote:
| The drawback would be: the magic crowd would reduce in number, some online sellers would go under, and you all woudn´t anymore have such a easy life to get new secrets. |
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Some of use don't consider any of those drawbacks.
http://www.DeeperSecrets.com/
http://www.DoccHilfordProducts.com/
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