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polygonsmagic
Veteran user
358 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 12:49am
"Kohler Company has the right to not sell this effect to you. So if you persist, you may be rejected to even purchase this effect, even if you have the $800, or you may be rejected because you are not a professional magician in the Kohler Companies eyes.
"I would be careful if I were you, he may be making a list of people posting demanding comments on this effect. He may be watching right now."
LOL. How much of the $800 are you getting for the hard sell?
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Dan Bernier
Inner circle
Canada
2299 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 1:49am
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 00:41, wmhegbli wrote:
Did you also read the statement, Kohler Company has the right to not sell this effect to you. So if you persist, you may be rejected to even purchase this effect, even if you have the $800, or you may be rejected because you are not a professional magician in the Kohler Companies eyes.
I would be careful if I were you, he may be making a list of people posting demanding comments on this effect. He may be watching right now.
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Why are those who are asking important and serious questions getting the same ignorant responses?
Bob keeps bringing up the whole legal aspect of it, but there are questions and allegations that were made that never got answered.
Someone I know was banned for finding out what he did. His last post was deleted and he was banned from the Café.
Bob Kohler does have a right to sell something for whatever price he wants. And, he can sell it to whoever he wants. I don't dispute that. But it is curious that those who ask questions in regards to the legal side of things seem to get the cold shoulder.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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rockthemike
Special user
Seattle
694 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 5:54am
Quote:
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On 2010-06-01 11:27, mmreed wrote:
Short of paying $800 to have someone tell me something different to say or do - what sets this apart? Is it a different method that is better in some way? With so many resources for blade work, there needs to be something other than "buying it for the scripting" If that's all it is, then people are paying to become clones rather than unique performers.
I'm sorry, but the days of sending an effect producer $$$ and saying "send me whatever" is over. Society has devoured that degree of openness and blind trust in the buyer.
Again, no disrespect intended - I would love to know more because I am a huge fan of razor work.
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They include the razors as an added bonus!!!!!
Michael Wong
Wizard
http://michaelwong.says.so
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shaunproof
Loyal user
Parts Unknown
212 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 9:34am
It was nice knowing you Gospel Dan.
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mmreed
Inner circle
Harrisburg, PA
1431 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 10:25am
Wow,
Im shocked at the replies to what are questions any buyer would want to know.
I understand some may have blind faith when someone says "send me $800 and I will send you something really great"
Many of us however do not have that level of willingness to do so - especially at $800.
I think I ask a valid question - For $800, what do you get other than a patter script? Is it a different method? Is there some gimmick included?
The claim is that for $800 you get a wonderful presentation of the blades.
Without knowing what else is involved, to me it sounds like one pays $800 to get a script to memorize and use with a typical method. I cannot see serious pros wanting to do someone else's routine instead of making it their own, which leaves me to think for $800 you have wealthy amateurs being clones of each other.
Now let me make this clear - I SAY THIS BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU GET FOR THE $800!!! which is my point! There is no video of the performance - and they claim there will never be one.... that kinda tells me youre paying for a script.
Now if that is true, what makes this script worth $800 vs Tim Ellis routine for $35, or one of the Bizzaro routines or one of the Bryd and Coates, or the Dayton routine... all of which are battle tested and proven in corporate, private, and stage environments.
Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but when it comes to an $800 price tag, I think people need to know what they get other than a claim of "oh, its great, trust us.." along with such stringent legal controls.
If it is just a script, I think this item is being made out to be much more than it is.... paying $800 for a script for a method already known is not a value. Heck for $600 I can hire Joanie Spina to personally choreograph a blades routine for me via video consult.
So seriously - what sets THIS blade offering apart from the others already out there at a fraction of the cost?
Telling folks "just buy it and trust you will like it" just does not cut it.
I agree Bob has every right to sell something how he prefers. However, buyers have every right to give their purchases due diligence as well.
I know Bob puts out awesome products - and that is why I would really like to know more about this item and decide if it fits into my routine. I cannot do that if I do not know more about it...
If simply watching a presentation of the effect spills the beans, that says a good deal about what you get.
As you can see from many of the post replies, I am not alone in this thinking.
Mark Reed aka Marc Mayhem
http://www.marcmayhem.com
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polygonsmagic
Veteran user
358 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 12:15pm
"Someone I know was banned for finding out what he did. His last post was deleted and he was banned from the Café."
This is starting to look like a big mess.
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noble1
Special user
581 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 12:26pm
I think the Confessions of a Needle Swallower presentation and method is easily worth $800. You can see it on video, it is battle tested and proven in corporate, private, and stage environments. And it's from Kohler at only $50.
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 5:36pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 10:25, mmreed. I think people need to know what they get other than a claim of "oh, its great, trust us.." along with such stringent legal controls.
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That would be true IF there were some requirement that you have to buy this effect.
You don't.
No one does.
It always amazes me that people feel they have a right to complain has to how a creator/artist/content provider chooses to control the release and use of THEIR material.
I also always find it disturbing that the people who scream the loudest when protections are put in place (even when that protection is just a price tag) are often the ones least likely to ever purchase said effect.
Why does anyone in the community fault someone for trying to control and protect their work?
Are we all a bunch of pirates whose bloodthirst is quenched only in the uncompensated work of others?
I am confident that if you are SERIOUS about purchasing this routine and have specific questions about the legal protections and how that would impact your specific use of the routine, Bob will answer your question via email.
All of this hypothetical speculation only serves to help pirates find loopholes. How is that good for anyone - other than pirates? I would think we would be on the same team here - protecting someone's work while allowing others to benefit from their creative content.
Now some people will whine that a high price tag is poor sportsmanship.
That's really what most of this boils down to. We saw it with the hold out. We saw it with Kerry's light routine. We saw it with Paul's HCE.
Many magicians feel they deserve access to everything. These are the same magicians whose incompentant performances continue to relegate magic to the bottom of the entertainment food chain.
Isn't it about time that the community of magicians decided we should start fostering an environment where work can be shared without dilution? Sure, not everyone will be able to do everything - but when has that - when CAN that ever be true?
Why are people afraid that someone wants to protect their ideas?
Why are people upset that someone wants a reasonable price for their product - a price THEY feel is reasonable?
Those that cry the loudest should remember that right now - they have nothing. At the end of the day - they will still have nothing. What Bob and Scott charge won't affect their lives at all. So why whine?
Now, if someone wants to pay for the rights to do that routine, they know what it will cost and what they are expected to do and not do. In buying anything there is a risk, and it is THEIR choice to take it or not.
No one is required to buy this routine.
The only people this plan can hurt are the pirates.
So why are so many people complaining?
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noble1
Special user
581 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 6:26pm
Well said truthteller. Impossible to refute anything you've said.
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takeachance
Inner circle
2154 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 7:52pm
I agree with most of what you said but believe its a bit arrogant as well. This was raised in a discussion forum, that's what its for, to ask questions. If anything is out of line the mods will delete it eventually. If it was brought up from an add or banner fair enough, but no, it was brought up for discussion. I don't think anyone should be singled out for a moral bashing for asking questions here, I thought that was what the Café was about. I applaud the way this is being marketed as I've already stated, but it is a marketed item. If you don't want it discussed on a forum, don't release it
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mmreed
Inner circle
Harrisburg, PA
1431 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 8:10pm
My questions are not really about the protection.. but rather WHAT IS IT? WHAT DO YOU GET for $800. Although the protection and legalities seem a bit overboard. All this regulation for something no one knows what is really in it...
All we know is that it is a razor blade routine.
No clue if it is a new method
No clue if it is just the patter you get
nothing other than a statement of "buy it, you'll like it"
I think someone looking for a blades routine needs to SEE it performed... does it fit my style, ect...
No video, no description, no idea - how can I know that for $800 that this is MY type of blades routine vs something like Ellis or Dayton?
This is my point - I have no real issue with the legal protection they choose to sell it under... but in order to buy it, I kinda need to know a little more about it.
Here is a bag. In it is something really great. It costs $250. I swear you will love it.
Who wants to send me $250 for the first bag?
Now... who wants to know whats IN the bag first to see if its something you can even use?
I mean come on folks... seriously...
I love blade work and own most of the materials out there on it... Id love to consider this... HOWEVER... if it is just $800 worth of patter overtop an old method... I don't need that, or want that...
So say I spend the $800 thinking I am getting something new... a new method... and it turns out its just a script for a method I already know... do I get a refund? Heck no... so wouldnt it be wise to want to know whats instore for my $800?
My question is simple...
what do I get for $800? Is it just a patter script, or is this a new method of blade work? If its just an old method with new patter - how does it differ in delivery from Ellis routine that is very strong and entertaining?
And here is one last thought... if it is JUST patter... why would I want to spend $800 on it vs working with someone like Joanie Spina to make something more original on my own?
Tell me the selling points of this item other than "Bob Kohler makes great stuff, so just buy it and trust you will like it"
My bag for $250 is still available if anyone wants one...
Mark Reed aka Marc Mayhem
http://www.marcmayhem.com
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mmreed
Inner circle
Harrisburg, PA
1431 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 8:14pm
Also - if showing a performance of this endangers it so much... what happens when a magician performs this for other magicians????
Again I stress, I am not trying to be disrespectful - I just want to know what I would get for my $800 if I choose to buy this!
Times are tough folks - buyers have the right to scrutinize and understand what they get for their hard earned dollars.
Caveat emptor
Mark Reed aka Marc Mayhem
http://www.marcmayhem.com
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mmreed
Inner circle
Harrisburg, PA
1431 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 8:27pm
I just dug a little deeper down on Bobs site and see that he has a FAQ saying what is included:
Quote:
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So What Do I Get With The Blades?
What you get are six minutes of action packed, hilarious entertainment that will rivet your audiences attention and get you standing ovations. What you are purchasing is the license to perform "The Blades". When you purchase the license we'll send you a kit as a bonus. The kit contains the special gaff, the necessary razor blades, the threads and a few other widgets that I won't describe. The parts and pieces are only a small part though of what your investment gets you. The real value is knowledge. You're getting all of Scott's creativity, his years of experience performing "The Blades" in front of critical, demanding audiences and all of the refinements that make "The Blades" the show stopper that will get you standing ovations night after night.
The knowledge is imparted to you on a professionally produced training DVD. This DVD is the property of Bob Kohler Magic and remains our property at all times. It is conditionally provided, not sold to clients who purchase the license. This is necessary to keep "The Blades" DVD from being shown in any way to someone who is not a licensee whether by renting it, lending it, showing it at a magic club meeting or selling it.
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So it appears you are buying the scripting of a method. It is uncertain if this someone else's method, a tweaked version of one, or a new method - but the statement leads to the purchase being more of that you are licensing the rights to use the patter and scripting they have.
Mark Reed aka Marc Mayhem
http://www.marcmayhem.com
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the Sponge
Inner circle
Atlanta
1194 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 10:36pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 20:14, mmreed wrote:
Also - if showing a performance of this endangers it so much... what happens when a magician performs this for other magicians????
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why the hell would you ever want to perform this for other magicians????
take a look at all the "BK line;" everything about the same, no video, no reveal of routine, etc. (just no agreement and 1/4 the price in some cases)
you're getting the same thing as Slashed, TFA, Velocity, Shattered, Confessions of Needle swallower, Human Phone # et.al. except it will cost $800 If you didn't think much of Scott's other releases/scripts, then I'm guessing you wont like this one either.
s
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polygonsmagic
Veteran user
358 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2010 10:49pm
"Are we all a bunch of pirates whose bloodthirst is quenched only in the uncompensated work of others?"
I think you missed the legitimate concerns of potential customers. This is way out there.
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rockthemike
Special user
Seattle
694 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 3:18am
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 17:36, truthteller wrote:
I am confident that if you are SERIOUS about purchasing this routine and have specific questions about the legal protections and how that would impact your specific use of the routine, Bob will answer your question via email.
Now, if someone wants to pay for the rights to do that routine, they know what it will cost and what they are expected to do and not do. In buying anything there is a risk, and it is THEIR choice to take it or not.
So why are so many people complaining?
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Ok... coool BUT I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT ROUTINE YOU'RE REFERRING TO AND NEITHER DO YOU so get off your high horse and come down to earth.
Everyone I have a car for sale. It's a great car. It's made by Ford and there is a law against theft of the vehicle. $799. Send MO no Paypal. It's a great car I promise you'll love it. PM me.
Michael Wong
Wizard
http://michaelwong.says.so
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tdowell
Special user
996 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 4:21am
Quote:
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On Jun 3, 2010 3:18am, rockthemike wrote:
Everyone I have a car for sale. It's a great car. It's made by Ford and there is a law against theft of the vehicle. $799. Send MO no Paypal. It's a great car I promise you'll love it. PM me.
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You forgot the contract the buyer must sign before taking delivery of this special Ford:
1. You CANNOT drive the Ford on TV...EVER!
2. You CANNOT film yourself driving the Ford and put it up for public display on yours or any website!
3. You CANNOT film yourself driving the Ford and put it up on You Tube!
4. You CANNOT drive the Ford in a venue where they sell tickets for people to watch you drive the Ford, especially a venue like Las Vegas, where a certain magician, herein specified, might be driving his Ford for a paying audience!
[LOL...sorry, I'm not taking sides on this, but I couldn't help it.  ]
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Caliban
Special user
659 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 6:07am
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 20:14, mmreed wrote:
Also - if showing a performance of this endangers it so much... what happens when a magician performs this for other magicians????
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The simple answer to that one is - you don't. Performing it at magic conventions and suchlike is one of the things prohibited by the agreement.
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 1:43pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 22:49, polygonsmagic wrote:
"Are we all a bunch of pirates whose bloodthirst is quenched only in the uncompensated work of others?"
I think you missed the legitimate concerns of potential customers. This is way out there.
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Nope. I know that potential customers with legitimate concerns have contacted Bob with said legitimate concerns and have chosen to buy the item.
Many of the people who cry loudest in these situations are only really whining about the price. They believe everything should be available to everyone for near nothing.
You are not buying this routine from the Magic Café, you are buying it from Bob. If you have a real question and if you are sincerely interested in the routine - email him.
Otherwise, you are just p-ing in the wind.
But I do think there is a larger issue here - someone is trying to implement measures that can protect a creator's rights, preserve the value of their creative work while allowing them to share it with others.
It would seem this should be a cause all conscientious magicians should be supportive of.
But clearly, this has riled some beyond what I would expect to be reasonable.
So, it makes me wonder why.
And the only answer that I think that seems to fit is that many magicians do NOT want creators to be able to protect their work. They don't want a system where they can be held accountable when they steal someone elses idea.
Again, no one is forcing anyone to buy this thing, so why are people (who are never going to plunk down 800 smakers) so upset?
Brad
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 1:58pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-03 03:18, rockthemike wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-06-02 17:36, truthteller wrote:
I am confident that if you are SERIOUS about purchasing this routine and have specific questions about the legal protections and how that would impact your specific use of the routine, Bob will answer your question via email.
Now, if someone wants to pay for the rights to do that routine, they know what it will cost and what they are expected to do and not do. In buying anything there is a risk, and it is THEIR choice to take it or not.
So why are so many people complaining?
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Ok... coool BUT I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT ROUTINE YOU'RE REFERRING TO AND NEITHER DO YOU so get off your high horse and come down to earth.
Everyone I have a car for sale. It's a great car. It's made by Ford and there is a law against theft of the vehicle. $799. Send MO no Paypal. It's a great car I promise you'll love it. PM me.
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First, assuming that everyone knows, or should know, the same thing is a dangerous place from which to begin any argument, so I shall choose to remain atop my trusted stead.
Steed?
Where's the Shrek screenplay when I need it?
Guess what, Mike. I don't want to buy your car. And that's ok. I don't have to. You're not making me, and I appreciate that.
Ultimately, it's your choice how you want to advertise your vehicle and your choice what terms you want to include.
No one can make YOU change the ad. No one can force you to sell on their terms.
So, why are you trying to make Bob cowtow to YOUR desires?
You can sell your car however you like, he can sell his routine however he wants. Ultimately the person who it will affect is him - he might not get your sale - and you know what? I'm more than sure he's ok with that.
When did everyone in magic become those whiney seagulls from Finding Nemo - the one's who bark "mine, mine, mine" whenever they see something shiny?
Mike, it's not yours. Not now and unless you want to take the risk - not ever.
Kohler's ok with that.
Why can't you be too?
Sure, this system may discourage some curiosity seekers from buying this on a lark. So, the trick may only end up selling a handful of items.
Seems to me, that for a content provider who wants to keep the material exclusive, this was a really smart way to go about it.
But just in case you missed the point, I'll repeat it (typing slowly); it's not your product. You don't get to choose how much it costs, what the ads say, or how its sold.
When you have your own product, you can do whatever you want.
Until then, buy it or don't.
That's really all the say you get to have in the matter.
Excuse me as a gallop off into the sunset.
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Michael Dustman
Special user
Columbus, Ohio
951 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 3:31pm
I agree with Brad...I have never figured out why in the field of magic, more people think they have the right to criticize how a creator or producer decides to market the product. We spend more time complaining about how it is marketed, rather than showing appreciation that the creator was willing to share it in the first place.
With that being said, all this talk by Mark about what you get for $800 and you must only be getting the scripting....you are so worked up on that fact you aren't even reading the paragraph you cut and pasted. It specifically says you are getting a custom made gaff, along with all other supplies, in addition to the script, routining and rights. Heck...a lot of times, just the performance rights alone can cost over a grand.
You are getting a custom made gaff. And from what I understand, it has been about 2 to 3 years in the design process. In fact, when I last inquired with Bob at MAGIC Live last year about this project, I thought it was still another year away. So, I am thrilled that it is finally released.
I will say this much...there was a lot of complaining as well about what you got for what you paid for the Final Answer. Was the "gaff" really worth the asking price. I say yes and no. Yes, because it was an brilliant step forward and the best utility device that I think has come around since the thumb tip. No, because I truly don't think the majority of the price was in the gaff, it was in the 2 disk treatsie on everything you would want to know about the Bill in Lemon. I would have paid the price for the DVD's alone. I have researched and purchased every single bill to lemon routine that has come around, to find bits and pieces that made each one great so I could develop my whole routine. Yes....I have spent a couple thousand dollars researching just one routine. I stopped after the Final Answer came out...I found the missing piece I needed. (And I don't even do Scott's routine.) So...in knowing Bob Kohler Productions past history, I have to imagine that this is the same scenario. You are getting a very thorough treatsie on everything you would need to know on the Razor Blades routine. On top of that, you are getting custom handcrafted gimmicks which will never come into question. Worth the asking price if you ask me...................
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Dan Bernier
Inner circle
Canada
2299 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 4:59pm
I think people have a right to share their opinions. I also think people have a right to ask questions, no matter how much those questions upset some of Bob's and Steve's friends and loyals.
The rebuttals from some seem to only raise more questions.
This IS a public forum, is it not? It was posted in the "Latest and Greatest?" was it not?
If some potential customers questions seem to upset others, they too have the same rights as what they keep reminding others have.
I totally agree that Bob, Steve, and anyone else has a right to sell anything they want, with whatever conditions they put on it. I am a FULL supporter of magician's and creator's protecting their material. Let me repeat that. "I fully support magician's and creator's who want to protect their material."
If people are not allowed to ask questions or voice their concerns, or if those who do are considered not real potential customers, or supporters of piracy, then this thread should be removed, and no further discussions should be allowed to take place about it on the Café. It's that simple, and that easy.
I believe some very good questions have been raised and ignored. Why?
Any serious professional performer would know where to find the product if they want to buy it without reading opinions, or discussions on it, so why the need to come onto the Café, and start a thread on it, only to turn around and criticize anyone who asks the kind of questions any real potential customer would ask when buying a product they know very little about.
Let's try and be fair to everyone here.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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noble1
Special user
581 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 5:39pm
Dan I think you are a bit confused, The Blades is offered by Bob and Scott. There is no Steve involved.
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Dan Bernier
Inner circle
Canada
2299 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 5:53pm
Yes, you are right. Thank-you. 
I was recently on Steve Spill's, "Mind Reading Goose" thread and got Steve and Scott confused.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 6:05pm
Dan,
No one is suggesting that the product cannot be discussed - to the extent the creator wishes the information to be publicly disseminated.
What my concern is that people seem so upset that a creator is trying to protect their work and charge a fair price for it. It seems odd to me that people are not supporting this course of action.
Likewise, if we choose to be honest with ourselves and not play the idealism card, one knows that many people are just complaining because they feel left out because of the hefty price tag. We saw it with the holdout, with Kerry's light routine, and with Paul's HCE.
People demand to know more and more about the item, as if somehow the creator/seller is causing them personal harm and damage for not cowtowing to their every request. We have all seen dozens of threads where "potential customers" pick apart an idea to the point that no one needs to buy it. The secret has been uncovered and laid bare for all with eyes to see.
Let's be honest, most people on these forums never perform anything. They have no desire to do this routine, let alone pay for it at any price beyond a few bucks to satisfy their curiosity.
It's all about getting something for nothing.
Sure, there are some serious folks here. Those are the ones who will email Bob and get the information they need.
So yes, you can ask whatever questions you want. But if Bob, or anyone, decides that they do not want to share that information, or answer that question in an open forum - then that should be respected.
I'm not seeing a lot of respect. I'm seeing mockery, and defensiveness, and anger.
I'm seeing people who are making baseless claims - claims stemming from the lack of information they are admitting to not having!
Ultimately, Bob OR ANY CONTENT PROVIDER should be allowed to determine their parameters for the release and sale of material and we should respect that.
As I said, buy it or don't. In this case - that's the only say you really have in the matter.
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mmreed
Inner circle
Harrisburg, PA
1431 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 6:52pm
Truthteller -
without seeing the performance of this item.... and it being stated as being a script of "the funniest 6 minutes with blades you will ever find"
How can one know if it fits their performing persona?
That is my point - without knowing more about it.... how can ANYONE make a choice if it is a fit?
Is it light humor... is it dark humor... is it slapstick... is it witty self deprecating... is it high brow humor... is it suitable for all ages or is it adult oriented.... is it more stage or parlor... ect..ect...
Without seeing a performance of what you get... or a more detailed description, how can ANYONE know if this item is for them?
Are you suggesting to buy it not knowing that?
What happens with those folks that buy it and it turns out to be a total conflict with the performance character they have?
Even though you get a gimmick - you are buying the ROUTINE AND PRESENTATION. But without knowing what that really is.
that's my entire point.
Mark Reed aka Marc Mayhem
http://www.marcmayhem.com
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 6:57pm
With any purchase you make in magic - there is a risk. Remember the days before online demos?
We all survived.
Sure, sometimes you got burned. Sometimes you were more than pleasantly surprised. But as a rule, you developed a relationship with the dealers who did you right, and they gave you as much help as they felt they could.
Bob's decision will cause him to lose sales.
Clearly, he's ok with that.
If you are not willing to take that risk - then he will lose YOUR sale.
Clearly, he's ok with that.
Why can't you be?
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Michael Dustman
Special user
Columbus, Ohio
951 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 7:23pm
Dan,
One of the points I was trying to make was NOT that people don't have the right to their opinion or to ask a question. My point was to stop asking the same question over and over that had already been answered. I am too tired to go back and check how many posts in this thread asked "What do you get for $800.....do you get just a script or gimmick....is there a gimmick.....is it just the patter" The ad copy clearly states you get a gimmick AND ALL PROPS needed. This wasn't a Do It Yourself with stuff you find laying around the house DVD.
I know it is storming in Ohio today, but maybe the color of the sky in my world is clearly different today.
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Scott Alexander
V.I.P.
874 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 8:19pm
Hello everyone...
I would LOVE to put up the routine online for everyone to see. The problem is, someone would be doing all the "patter" and "bits o' business" tomorrow, using a different method. That wouldn't serve my customers, or myself very well. I think we can all agree with that.
But here's the thing...
If it's not your style, and you throw the whole routine out the window, you are still left with the best, most direct, most natural, cleanest, and easiest to set-up method and handling available.IMHO.
Are you going to get 800 cybergenic nano-bots who swarm your mouth and tie the razors on the string for you...no...that costs $800,000.00.
So whadda ya get for $800.00 bucks?
1. A really good routine...
2. A really clean method...
3. A really easy preperation & setup...
4. A really deceptive trick...
When I throw down a chunk of dough on a piece of magic, these are things I hope to find. The Blades delivers on all 4. There are a lot of other great methods out there. Some mentioned on this thread. Nothing against any of them. I've seen em' all. I just like mine better, of course.
-Scott
-Scott
Visit my PRO MAGIC SHOP
http://scottalexander.bigcartel.com/
Website
http://www.scottalexandermagic.com
check out my blog...
http://themagicjuice.blogspot.com
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Dan Bernier
Inner circle
Canada
2299 Posts
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Posted: Jun 3, 2010 9:47pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-03 18:57, truthteller wrote:
With any purchase you make in magic - there is a risk. Remember the days before online demos?
We all survived.
Sure, sometimes you got burned. Sometimes you were more than pleasantly surprised. But as a rule, you developed a relationship with the dealers who did you right, and they gave you as much help as they felt they could.
Bob's decision will cause him to lose sales.
Clearly, he's ok with that.
If you are not willing to take that risk - then he will lose YOUR sale.
Clearly, he's ok with that.
Why can't you be?
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Why do you always have to make sense?
If someone buys something and finds out it's not their cup of tea, they can turn around and sell it to another sucker...I mean buyer. You can't re-sell Blades for obvious reasons.
I also understand why a demo can't be shown, and why Blades can't me more descriptive than it is. But, do we really need all the legal claims that are being said about it advertised along with it to give it the illusion that it's protected by law?
Shouldn't the signed agreement, and the high price be enough? I have to admit that reading over the agreement my conclusion was that either a non-lawyer person wrote it up, or an incompetent one did.(lol) It tried to sound like it was professionally done, but that's the key. It tried to sound like it.
Those who purchase this will surely keep the agreement, as it would fully benefit them to do so.
Also, those who know Scott's work will know if the chance is worth taking.
I think someone posted earlier about performing it for other magician's, but I thought the question was about when performing the routine in front of a live audience that just so happens to have a magician in the crowd.
We know how Scott's routine is protected, but how is the consumer protected? Is Bob willing to take someone to court and spend thousands of dollars on legal fee's?
However, you are right again truthteller. I suppose those would be questions that one could email Bob about. At least those serious about wanting to purchase it.
Thanks for chiming in.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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