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the Sponge
Inner circle
Atlanta
1194 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 2:17pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-19 12:42, lebowski wrote:
Likely it is BECAUSE the other Alexander products have been resold / copied that there is a change of policy for his products.
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1. Who are all these people copying/stealing/performing the routine without buying it somewhere? I haven't seen one complaint/mention here.
2. You mean.....he didn't realize it would happen? I guess someone told him after "Slashed?" Bob must have known. He licensed his holdout. Why wait?
3. is it?
s
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lebowski
Veteran user
377 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 3:05pm
Perhaps you are not familiar with all the torrent sites or the vast 2nd hand tricks for sale market. As to why one would wait, or why we don't see more of this already, I don't know.
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Bob Kohler
Special user
663 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 5:00pm
The answer is very simple. We are learning as we go.
When we released the FK Holdout with the agreement we were probably one of the first companies to use the California Trade Secret Agreement to protect a non-software product.
The landscape keeps changing so the solutions are changing with the times. Hindsight is always perfect. I wish I could go back in time and release all of our Pro-Line products using the current plan.
You also have to consider how much more work it is for us to release a product like The Blades. It takes much more time and money with additional paperwork, legal fees, copyright fees and manufacturing the DVD's one by one with the clients digital watermark.
In the end this all costs money. Just like convenience store prices are driven up by shoplifters, this additional work and costs makes the retail price higher.
Magicians without ethics are the one's molding the future. Artists and manufacturers are just responding to do their best to protect the products integrity.
www.bobkohlermagic.com
Home of the BK Pro Line
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lebowski
Veteran user
377 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 5:03pm
Bob why wasn't this done with Confessions of a Needles Swallower or the Mindreading Goose?
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Bob Kohler
Special user
663 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 5:34pm
Same answer...
If I' had figured out that combining the Trade Secret Agreement with the License and the Copyright PA before those products were released I would certainly have done it.
www.bobkohlermagic.com
Home of the BK Pro Line
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insight
Inner circle
1655 Posts
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Posted: May 19, 2010 6:33pm
Bob Kohler,
I commend your release to the magic community. I'm coming out with a Mental Prediction effect, and I may decide to release it in the same manner to promote the concept of exclusivity. I like it!
Regards,
Mike
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Todd Bernard
Loyal user
266 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 1:01am
I was originally curious about this whole thing because if what was being said was actually true, and legally binding, this would be a way for creator's to protect their stuff.
But...I have been looking into Performing Arts Copyrights, and discovered some very interresting information.
First, the fee to register for a PA Copyright is $35.00, and it can be done via internet.
The PA Copyright from what I understand does not put protection on someone using the method/trick, and coming up with their own original routine and patter and performing it where ever they want. The PA Copyright is actually very limited it what it can protect.
Dramatic Arts/Performing Arts
In order for a work to be classified in this category, there needs to be a dramatic element to it. These works are created with the intention of being performed for an audience, either directly (live show) or indirectly (over the T.V). Some examples of these works include:
• Screenplays
Screenplays are written with the intention of being produced or performed. These could include, but are not limited to scripts for: plays, radio shows, movies, television shows, comedy acts, etc.
• Musical Works
Musical Works are considered compositions or songs that may or may not include words. As long as the dramatic nature of the work has been put in a tangible form (paper, CD, hard drive, etc.) it is protected under copyright law.
Note: although confusing, ‘Sound Recordings’ is a separate copyright subject than Musical Works. It will be discussed below in greater detail.
• Audio-Visual Works (movies)
Audio-Visual works are often referred to as ‘cinematographs’. These works must have been expressed in some form of ‘moving photography’. Examples include: movies, television programs, home videos, news coverage, and improvised acts.
• Sound Tracks
These are protected under Dramatic Arts/Performing arts as long as they accompany the cinematograph (movie).
• Choreographic Works (dance routines)
Similar to stories, it’s not the individual steps or movements that are protected by copyright law, but the choreography sequences. Remember – to be eligible for copyright, the choreography must be recorded into a fixed form (paper, filmed).
3. Sound Recordings
Sound Recordings do not fall under ‘Musical Works’ because they protect the manner in which the sound is performed as well as the actual performance. They cover the actual fixed version of musical compositions or musical works (the actual sounds that were recorded). Sound recording copyrights are often owned by the performer, producer or, recording company.
Musical works intended to accompany a movie or other audiovisual work should be registered in the Dramatic/Performing arts category.
Examples of sound recordings include:
• recordings of music,
• recordings of drama
• recordings of lectures
• recordings of nature sounds
You can protect the choreography sequences, and maybe the actual routine that Scott Alexander uses when performing the illusion, but you can not protect it from someone who uses the trick, comes up with their own original routine and choreography and performs it where ever they want. Actually, if they do not use Scott's routine, they are free to perform it anywhere they want.
In regards to this written contract. I believe that a contract agreement must meet certain criteria's set out by the State or province it is written in, and then can only hold up within it's legal jurisdiction. In otherwords, it may not be a legal binding contract outside of the State or country.
I was reading about unreasonable demands or requests made in a contract that will not be upheld in court even though all parties signed to it. For example. A contract may state that one must stand on his head while performing the trick. This would be considered unreasonable, and would not be legally binding. Also, any written contract cannot over rule and other laws already in effect. One being, if a seller sells an item, the buyer may legally choose to do with it as they wish, including and not limited to resale.
I'm no lawyer, and I don't want to over do it in this thread with everything I found out, but anyone can do their own research if they want to find out more about PA Copyrights, and legally binding contracts. There is a wealth of info out there.
To sum it up, the only thing protected is the exact routine that Scott performs, not the trick, nor the method. Nor does it protect Scott from someone performing the trick with their own original routine on television, or on promo videos, or anywhere else.
If a PA Copyright was actually filed, a certificate of registration would of been issued. Any chance of seeing a copy of this certificate of registration? Does the buyer receive a copy of this certificate of registration?
Or, am I completely wrong, and have all my infomation wrong? Perhaps the US copyright office site I visited is full of crock.(lol)
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Todd Bernard
Loyal user
266 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 2:23am
I was also reading up on California Trade Secret Agreement. Good luck with that one.
Apparently if you sell a trade secret to the public, it's no longer a trade secret. You can't sell a magic secret and call it a trade secret and actually believe that a court will consider it a trade secret. That's not what a trade secret agreement is for.
You would have to prove that it is a trade secret. A little hard to do when you are actually selling the trade secret on the open market. That would be like microsoft selling their trade secrets on the open market and then trying to sue anyone who uses those trade secrets.
There are two types of trade secret agreement. Non-disclosure agreements, and Non-Compete Agreements. If anyone is interrested in learning more about trade secrets just google. I'd rather not waste anymore time with this non-sense.
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ArtIn
Elite user
Berlin
446 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 5:00am
Todd thanks for the research, very interesting informations
illusions will be reality
sometimes reality is disturbing
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Review King
Eternal Order
14448 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 12:58pm
I would think anyone purchasing The Blades would be a professional performer and would honor all agreements. Sort of an exclusive club protecting itself sort of thing.
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"
..........John Greenleaf Whittier
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korttihai_82
Inner circle
Finland
1442 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 2:49pm
I don't really understand why people are trying to find holes in the agreement? don't you guys get it that it isn't deviced to make your life harder but to protect your possible investment and magic in general?!?!? If you insist on doing razorblades on TV or magic convention JUST get other method... There is many on the market. Or just do the needles by Steve Spill and save 750$. It is absolutely fantastic and I was amazed that it was not on the proline.
However, I do agree some writers who are worried on the pricing... Again 800$ is not much for working pro (not even one gig), but without seeing it can still be a sting... Especially when comparing the earlier Kohler and Alexander products.
Now lets be really honest... They havent really been really really original presentation or effectwise. Slashed, Tabary rope routine with gimmicked rope. Final Answer, Seabrookes burn note meets Steve Spill bill in lemon. Methodwise at least Alan from Spain has done bill in egg with very similar method for years. Human phonenumber is very similar to Barrie Richardsons routine methodwise.
don't get me wrong, these all have been wonderfull products and I own both Slashed and Final Answer... However, even all the hype, I don't use either of them. For me, they are not "the best" on the market as advertised.
Similarly the blades advertisement is little scary... Again it is supposed to be "the best"... Give out standing ovation... Claiming that something is "the best" is allways subjective. Also, claiming that something will get standing ovations is quite bold. Well, if you end the routine with national hymn that might get the job done allways, but in the end, not a single trick will get standing ovation. The performer will get it if he is good enough. Bad performer just wont get them even with amazing material. Also, standing ovation is very cultural thing... The consept of standing ovation isn't nearly as common in europe as it is in States.
Hehe, I guess I am lucky that I am not really interested in adding the razorblades into my act. Those pros who are interested in it however might have tougher time on making the investment, because if it wont fit them they don't have a way to get rid off it and therefore they might spend 800$ on nothing. Luckily at least in Finland, that is at least tax deductable 
Juha-Matti
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Potty the Pirate
Inner circle
4233 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 5:01pm
Juha-Matti, I'm curious which Bill in Lemon methods you think are superior to "Final Answer". I've studied the effect extensively, and sincerely believe FA is absoultely the best, bar none! It's gotten me several standing ovations over the years, and no one has EVER called me on the method.
Bottom line is, you're buying a thoroughly audience-tested routine that has stood up to hundreds of performances, been fine-tuned, and is ready to go. There are many working pros, (myself included) who simply could not create routines as special as these. We all have our stregths and weaknesses. I can deliver a performance with panache, but to devise and create the ingenious routines that Scott Alexander comes up with, is frankly, out of my league. I'm a very happy camper, being able to include such show-stopping, jaw-dropping effects in my shows.
For the price, I consider FA a gift, and when I put "The Blades" into my show, I'm sure I'll feel the same.
Potty 
Potty the Pirate
Sussex Magician
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takeachance
Inner circle
2145 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 5:27pm
Lets not drag that argument up again, its been well discussed on another BIL forum. Its very subjective to personnal opinion which is the best. The FA is certainly up there, and if it works for you then great. Lets stick to The Blades. A solid scripted routine and method, if suited to your persona is well worth the asking price. Not so sure why the contract is being questioned here, this has got to be a good thing for magic in general and I hope it works out. BK tends to concentrate on marketing very clever methods supported with professional scripts and for me, the scripts are where a lot of the value is, not just props. What you really need to do is a bit of home work to see if the performers work being offered will suit you before hitting the buy button. Alexander has enough out there for people to be able to make that informed decision IMHO
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Bob Kohler
Special user
663 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2010 6:09pm
Todd,
The legal aspects are without question interesting, complex and very deep. I am not a lawyer but I do hire them. I know they know what they are doing and I trust them.
Whenever I read legal documents I realize that lawyers have created a language only they can fully understand. The other thing most are great at is debate. Whenever I enter into the legal world I understand why Shakespeare said "Kill all of the lawyers".
I think it's great you took the time to learn about our protection. The bottom line is it takes all three things, the copyright, the license and the Trade Secret Agreement to do the job. Each one takes care of certain issues. All three have to be in place.
The Copyright PA protects Scott's script. That's it.
The California Trade Secret Agreement does work for magic. First you need to establish that what you're protecting is a trade secret. The best way to do this is get a group of known experts to agree that what you have is in fact a secret of your trade. We've done this starting with the FK Holdout. The experts have signed a separate document that sets the date and time the secret was revealed to them. If we have to go to court we can have expert testimony in our behalf that the information is in fact a trade secret.
These same points have been addressed since Bob Fitch and I released the Fitch Kohler Holdout System. If you do a search you'll find many forums that have had discussions on the pros and cons of using the Trade Secret Agreement. You'll discover opinions that are for each side. I've read opinions from magicians who are actually lawyers. They offer pros and cons too.
It's interesting that even full time professional lawyers have different opinions concerning our plan and using this agreement for protecting magic.
My only goal was to protect the Fitch Kohler Professional Holdout System. It's been out for over 7 years. It still has not been compromised. The secret has not been on TV but magician's have used it as a secret weapon in their television performances. The training DVD's have not been sold or put on Bit Torrent as far as I know.
We've had less than ten magicians who leased the FK Holdout System decide it was not for them and they transferred the lease to another magician according to the agreement.
So the question is has the strategy been successful. Absolutely 100% yes. The product has not been knocked off or revealed. We have been contacted by magic companies who in the past have knocked off other products attempting to buy the rights to manufacture our system. We refused these offers and none the the companies put out anything like our designs.
We've never had to test our strategy in court. We have not had any issues with the product at all.
"The Blades" is a different story. This product has equipment but it's not as impossible to make like the parts to the FK Holdout. Our holdout required a genius craftsman, Thomas Wayne to manufacture. So our task in this case is different. We're taking the necessary steps to protect the intellectual property of this release with some additional tools.
After seven years I feel good about putting out the FK Holdout System, the quality of the product and the value our clients received for trusting in us. I hope in seven more years I can look back and see that the integrity of this release is still intact. Only time will tell.
www.bobkohlermagic.com
Home of the BK Pro Line
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Todd Bernard
Loyal user
266 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 12:52am
I think that every performer should have respect for other performers, but the truth is, there is little real respect amongst performers today.
I'm not saying there is none, just very little. Thus the reason why you, Bob feel such a strong need to want to protect the material.
You know as well as I now know, that there is a good chance the contracts or the supposed PA Copyright, and Trade Secret Agreement wouldn't do much to protect the material if it did go to court. Not mentioning the amount of money it would cost you to file a claim.
As far as a trade secret agreement goes, one would have to prove in court that it is indeed a trade secret. Which alone is a very hard task to do. But, the proof gets compromised when the owner sells the supposed trade secret on the open market. Thereby making it extremely hard to prove that it is a trade secret.
I see what you are trying to do though, and I commend you for it. It is indeed a step in the right direction. I was wishing that there would be a more stronger protection than the one you imply though.
Reviewking, I would hope so too. Magicians stealing from magicians goes way back to the beginning of performing magic. Magicians were always spying on each other, stealing routines, and tricks. It's nothing new.
Now we have magic clubs, associations, conventions, lectures, etc, yet even some of the best of us will resort to stealing. Especially the ones who say they would never do such a thing.
By the way, are you a professional performer yourself?
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Review King
Eternal Order
14448 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 1:25am
Quote:
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On 2010-05-21 00:52, Todd Bernard wrote:
By the way, are you a professional performer yourself?
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Think of the worst performer you've ever seen. I'm slightly worse.
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"
..........John Greenleaf Whittier
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Steve Hook
Inner circle
Raleigh, NC, USA
1117 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 1:45am
Chris, you're too modest.
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Todd Bernard
Loyal user
266 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 2:37am
Quote:
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On 2010-05-21 01:25, Review King wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-21 00:52, Todd Bernard wrote:
By the way, are you a professional performer yourself?
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Think of the worst performer you've ever seen. I'm slightly worse.
Chris
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That directly wasn't answering my question, but I'm old enough to know when someone is diverting away from answering a question.
There's nothing wrong with not being a professional performer, and my intentions wasn't to put you on the spot.
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Kamal
Loyal user
253 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 8:43am
I've got a few Scott Alexander items, and this looks like another winner - so I'll be buying it.
Melbourne Comedy Magician
http://www.kamal.com.au
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korttihai_82
Inner circle
Finland
1442 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 9:31am
Quote:
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On 2010-05-20 17:01, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Juha-Matti, I'm curious which Bill in Lemon methods you think are superior to "Final Answer". I've studied the effect extensively, and sincerely believe FA is absoultely the best, bar none! |
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For my use both Doug Malloy Lemon Game and Cody Fishers bet your bucks have proven to be much better solutions. I wrote a lengthy topic about them somewhere in the Café. You should be able to find it with ease by using search. My reasoning is clearly stated in there
Juha-Matti
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Markku
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 10:16am
In final answer, only problem is routine. Its very funny but its only for adults. Also in some situations its better to NOT tell drug jokes if there is lot of old peoples. They could think that trick wasnt so funny... You maybe need to change routine little bit. Bet your buck and Lemon game routine you can do everywere. It doesn't matter if there is couple of kids in audience.
Its really nice to see some reviews. Hard to believe that razor blade routine can be so special its really worth of 800$. If you spend 20$ you get very good razor blade routine. Is difference worth of 780$!? I bet you get couple of sick jokes how make suicide by cutting your wrist open using razor blade. Very funny hah hah haa or then not 
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Steve Brooks
Manager
Northern California - United States
4192 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 4:33pm
I've been following this topic with great interest for a number of reasons not the least which is because I am also a creator of effects and a producer and publisher of DVDs.
Having said that, I would remind everyone that the LATEST & GREATEST forum is all about speculation of new products (see forum Rules) and not actually a review area. Also, we are here to discuss whether or not a product will be great and useful, not to challenge the legal or manufacturing decisions of the creators behind such products.
Having said all that I feel I should add some food for thought here:
Todd Bernard said; "What legal rights does one have to make such restrictions? And, can it actually hold up in a court of law if someone does decide to perform it on t.v, or use it in a promo video, etc?."
That one is easy Todd - he's the guy putting the product out and he has every right to do so in a manner that he is comfortable with - period.
Besides, Mr. Kohler clearly explains things early on, but just in case anyone missed it:
Bob Kohler said; "I completely understand that this release has limitations. I also know that this product is not for everybody.
But the facts are the world has changed and we have to change with it. This release is our solution.
All products are driven by supply and demand. No one is being forced to purchase the product. For those that it works for we couldn't be happier. The routine is fantastic and very special.
For those who don't agree with our vision and efforts to protect the routine's integrity, it's value and our customer's investment, no problem."
What part don't you understand Todd?
Todd Bernard said; "
I'm no lawyer, and I don't want to over do it in this thread with everything I found out, but anyone can do their own research if they want to find out more about PA Copyrights, and legally binding contracts. There is a wealth of info out there"
No, you're not a lawyer. So, why are you going down the legal path? If people want to do research on the subject the Internet is full of information and such data can easily be found by anyone with a true desire to find it.
But why would they want to? They either have an interest in purchasing a product based on its quality and what it does or they don't - simple as that. In regards to the price, heck I have sets of coins that cost near as much.
So Todd - what is the point of all your posts which have absolutely nothing to do with the scope of this forum? Are you going to purchase this? If so, I still haven't a clue why you are so concerned about Mr. Kohler's choices in how he releases a product. If you are a law abiding citizen such choices should not bother you.
Todd Bernard said; "I see what you are trying to do though, and I commend you for it. It is indeed a step in the right direction. I was wishing that there would be a more stronger protection than the one you imply though."
Since you understand Bob's motives there shouldn't be an issue here.
Bob Kohler said; "Magicians without ethics are the one's molding the future. Artists and manufacturers are just responding to do their best to protect the products integrity"
I agree.
Folks, I really think its time to move back to discussing the effect proper.
Thank you.
You can now follow me on
 and
 See you there!
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Potty the Pirate
Inner circle
4233 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 5:48pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-21 09:31, korttihai_82 wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-20 17:01, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Juha-Matti, I'm curious which Bill in Lemon methods you think are superior to "Final Answer". I've studied the effect extensively, and sincerely believe FA is absoultely the best, bar none! |
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For my use both Doug Malloy Lemon Game and Cody Fishers bet your bucks have proven to be much better solutions. I wrote a lengthy topic about them somewhere in the Café. You should be able to find it with ease by using search. My reasoning is clearly stated in there
Juha-Matti
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...yet, with Lemon Game, the lemon is not out in the audience before the bill is vanished, nor is the spectator able to handle the lemon more than for a moment. My handling of FA allows the spectator to freely handle the lemon before it's cut open. Though the free handling of the lemon is not included on Scott's DVD (the only one of these three routines that comes with a fully fleshed-out routine, gags and all), it's easy to work out how to make this possible. Just a simple move, and a much more satisfactory solution than Cody's, which is OK, but not really ideal.
Bet Your Bucks - Cody fisher has a serious talking problem which to my knowledge has never been really addressed. Again, the lemon is NOT out in the audience before the bill is removed from play. In my opinion, this is what makes FA vastly superior to both methods. When I saw Cody perform his version, I heard such a loud "clunk!", I'm afraid it rather gave the game away for me. Though I do love the prop, it's very cool.
As to the drugs reference in FA, well, it's just a very short one-liner. My performances are mostly for family audiences, and of course, I cut this line. Why on Earth would the fact that Scott provides this line mean that you HAVE to include it?
Of course, it's down to personal preference, but for my money, putting the lemon out into the audience BEFORE the bill is taken out of play makes this version unbeatable. Also, the handling is quite brilliant. Yes, I studied over 30 versions of Bill in Lemon, and no one has it down like Scott does - my opinion!
And that's part of the reason I rate Scott's work so highly - he comes up with solutions which are remarkable and ingenious.
Potty
Potty the Pirate
Sussex Magician
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Cody S. Fisher
V.I.P.
Austin, Texas
969 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 7:14pm
Potty,
This thread is not about "bill to lemon tricks". I know you hate my version, you have made it very clear several times on several threads. It's a moot point since my version is no longer available anyway. BTW there is no "serious talking problem" with my routine...it kills...as does Scotts wonderful version.
And now back to our regularly scheduled thread on "The Blades"...
Sincerely,
Cody S. Fisher
www.CodyFisher.com/store For DVD's, Lecture Notes, Unique Tricks, & Instant Downloads!
Cody's Comedy Confabulation / Silk-2-Egg / Killer Prediction / Tossed Out Deck / Restaurant Opener DVD / Counterfeit Money DVD
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cairo
Veteran user
397 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 7:34pm
Also off topic. Cody I like your avatar.
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Bob Kohler
Special user
663 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 8:58pm
Magic is sort of like buying shoes. Everybody has different needs and personal taste.
One person has to have Berluti which costs $1850.00 a pair while another guy just likes good old sneakers that cost $18.50. In the end, both are completely satisfied with their new shoes.
Life would be so boring if all of us were the same. Fortunately, there are many great routines for all of the classics. You can pick and choose what fits you.
Many people tend to think only in black and white. They think a product is either good or bad. I don't think this is usually the case. I tend to look for the good in everything. I've seen a lot of magic both good and bad. I learn different things from both sides. But I think it's smart to try and glean good ideas even from the worst routines. Sometimes the best idea is hidden in the darkest possible place.
Professional products like Cody's or Scott's routines are proven material. They work for their creators and they work for the magicians who invest in them, put some time into learning the routine and then keep polishing the routine until it becomes "them". At this point the routine fits you like a glove not a shoe.
It doesn't matter if you've changed the routines method and presentation a lot or a little. The real thing here is you've taken the time to understand what and why the creator does it like he does and the thinking behind it.
When you start with a routine that has been really audience tested for years you really should try to do the routine as the creator a few times. You may be surprised just how well it works.
As far as the classic razor blades are concerned, with The Blades Scott has done all of the work for you. When I learned it I decided not to change a single thing.
www.bobkohlermagic.com
Home of the BK Pro Line
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magicmind
Inner circle
Getting fed up after making
1834 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2010 9:35pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-18 15:02, Caliban wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-05-18 13:58, Bob Kohler wrote:
Television rights are reserved. Nothing kills a routines effectiveness faster than having it appear on television.....
Another major issue is that whoever performs it first on television especially nationally will become recognized for the routine.
2) Television rights are reserved. Nothing kills a routines effectiveness faster than having it appear on television. Once it appears on television there will be copies available of the routine instantly available.
Another major issue is that whoever performs it first on television especially nationally will become recognized for the routine. Reserving Television Rights gives you more protection and value.
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That's certainly a valid argument IF Scott has made a commitment not to perform it on television either. I'd say there's a big difference between a routine that the buyer knows will never be broadcast on television (which does offer a great deal of protection and value to a working pro) and a routine that only the creator can perform on television (which mostly offers protection to the creator and makes the buyer look like the copyist if the creator performs it on TV).
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Agree, you spend $800...they sell 12. Scott books the TV gig performs...now all your corporate or cruise ship jobs....you look like the guy that "is doing the trick that other guy did on TV". Just like someone in a small town show copying DC. You look like the copycat trying to be like the guy on TV.
"2) Television rights are reserved. Nothing kills a routines effectiveness faster than having it appear on television. Once it appears on television there will be copies available of the routine instantly available.
Another major issue is that whoever performs it first on television especially nationally will become recognized for the routine. "
"Reserving Television Rights gives you more protection and value. " How?
Pay it forward and remember karma will take it from there
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takeachance
Inner circle
2145 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2010 2:14am
Does this have to be a closer or can it be performed any time during your act? Do you have to leave the stage to clean up so to speak. Is it suitable for more intimate venues or a parlor performance size area.
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Potty the Pirate
Inner circle
4233 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2010 4:43am
Quote:
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On 2010-05-21 19:14, Cody S. Fisher wrote:
Potty,
This thread is not about "bill to lemon tricks". I know you hate my version, you have made it very clear several times on several threads. It's a moot point since my version is no longer available anyway. BTW there is no "serious talking problem" with my routine...it kills...as does Scotts wonderful version.
And now back to our regularly scheduled thread on "The Blades"...
Sincerely,
Cody S. Fisher
Sorry if this is getting a little off-topic, but I would like to respond to your post - Cody, you've got me all wrong. I do NOT hate your version. In fact, I own it, and am not about to part with it. Your version is one of the SIMPLEST to perform, and the prop is wonderful. I use it for a completely different effect. I simply find Scott's version the best for me, and the routining leaves the audience nowhere to go when deconstructing the method.
Please don't take offence, I was actually trying to make the point that Scott's products are first rate. My apologies if I did stray off-topic a little too much.
Hope this clears things up,
Doug
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Potty the Pirate
Sussex Magician
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Bob Kohler
Special user
663 Posts
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Posted: May 22, 2010 10:39am
The Blades will work either on stage or in parlor situations.
You both start and end clean. It's totally practical. If you read the story of my visit to Caesar's Magic Empire on the product page on my web site https://www.bobkohlermagic.com/view-product.cfm?productid=65
you'll see just how practical and powerful this routine is.
www.bobkohlermagic.com
Home of the BK Pro Line
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