|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] | ||||||||||
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Chance
No offense intended. I tried my darndest to keep this thread generic, your name was not mentioned. I wish you well in your future projects.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
|||||||||
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Chance does bring up a good point though worth thinking about. It is not the prop. People rely to heavily on it and the routine that comes with it. Utilize the prop as a tool for which to create. Then apply your own routining and ideas to it to make it fit who you are.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
|||||||||
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Al,
No offense taken at all!! My point is that the Little Darlings section is a very unique series of threads. There seems to be a trend of folks stating the argument that magicians have no need for commercial "props" ...funny thing is, no matter what you are holding in your hand...it's still a prop. These paticular trains of thought may find agreement by some and not by all. Some of these "propless" thinkers are giving advice to new folks or semi pros who maybe have not found themselves yet. Their arguments, on the surface, can be persuasive. But not always true as some folks simply do not have a God given natural talent to deliver the goods using a paper cup, dental floss and a maraschino cherry. So maybe your argument convinces them. Commercial builders loose sales, the new magician falls on his face and your still getting gigs. Sometimes, these trains of thoughts can create damage to those who make a living building magic. Let's put this in perspective. I attend to an audition of yours. You are on a stage in front of 1000's of perspective clients. You begin your show. While you are performing, and start barking out my opinion of how your show should be. Then a bunch of other manufacturers start loudly agreeing with me. Your clients, not knowing exactly what they need begin to start thinking.... You can figure out the end of the story. Like I said, I am not directing this to you directly Al. It is toward everyone who spends far too much time convincing folks in the Café of what they need and what is good for them and not simply letting them find out for themselves. There are a lot of sheep in the world. If you choose to be a herder, try to stay away from cliffs. Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
|||||||||
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kyle
Young magicians today go to youtube for all of their ideas, they don't seem to realize that THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN MAGIC. Many generations of magicians from the past are dieing to share the classics of magic with us, and all we have to do is go to the local library. Chance The posts are flying out here faster than I can keep up with them. My thread will not even make a dent in your business, but if I can get a few young magicians to do their research at their local library instead of on youtube then my thread will have served it's purpose.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
|||||||||
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Al: I would like to change your saying a round a litle bit. There may not be any real new principles of magic these days but there clearly are and can be NEW approaches and new routines and new creative ways of doing things. That is where I fele the power lies. It is in taking a "tool" or "principle" or "prop" and applying your own creativity to it to make something unique and entertaining.
Chance: You are absolutely correct. There will always be props and magicians need these props. iot is the tools of our trade. without the prop it is like an artist without a brush or canvas. You simply can't create. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
|||||||||
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-10 12:24, Al Angello wrote: Don't be so sure. As a collective you may be surprised. We do not sell nearly as much magic as some folks think. Just stating the facts. Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
|||||||||
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Chance
That comes as a surprise to me because you have so many loyal fans, but even the guy who uses 6 Wolf tricks in his show needs a TT, scarf, rope, bag, tube, card, or coin trick to round out his performance, and what better place is there to get a coin trick from than in "Coin Magic" by J.B Bobo. Kick off is in a few minutes, and soon no one will really care what magicians think. GO EAGLES
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
|||||||||
Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
I don't care what they think anyway.
So many sweepingly generalizing statements in some of these posts. There are no rules whatsoever in Magic.
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
|||||||||
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Al,
Just to be sure everyone knows, I have no personal beef with you. I fully understand your points as I started with books for the first year. Those were the days long before 50,000 videos/DVD's were on the market. My buddy and I created a ton of new variations to old ideas and it was a BLAST! Actually, the advent of the videos began to stifle my creativity, made me more lazy, and I almost felt like my ideas were not as worthy because these were the PROS on the videos. So I ditched the references and just started working from within the confines of my wacky mind. It got better Books will give you a wealth of inspiration. Just act on it and create something maybe not totally original but fresh. Good luck to those who dare to be different!...and maybe not try to spend so much time pleasing magicians...that's a lost cause. Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
|||||||||
Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-10 12:56, Al Angello wrote: Of course. Props like Wolf's Magic provides give true professionals the opportunity to take a little less of the limelight while the audience appreciate this new toy you've got to show them. You can enjoy the fun, and then carry on with whatever else you were doing. There is so much debate about which particular routine or other is better, yet of course after years of performing many different routines, it's ultimately the performer who is the only common factor. Indeed, the experienced professional can perform scripted routines, and still keep the audience enthralled, no matter how poor the script. Constantly working on your persona is a vital element to a successful career. As always, my 2c. ;) |
|||||||||
professorwhut Inner circle Posts R US sold me 1353 Posts |
I use props, and I use slight of hand. I don't think it needs to be "either, or".
I own a couple of Wolf props, I cherish them, I wish I had them all. There was a guy here on the Café some time ago that posted a video of himself doing a mouth coil routine. It was amazing...If I remember correctly the the crowd went wild. It was truly a wonderful thing to see. I think that was the only thing he did for that particular performance. Don't do props, do magic, with props or whatever else you skill yourself with.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.
TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut] |
|||||||||
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Potty, you pause to allow the wonderment of your prop to be shared among the audience? What do you think they are saying? "Oy mate, take a bit o' time and appreciate that prop young Potty is showing us. I'm glad he is just standing there not taking away from this lovely moment, you know, I really hope he doesn't do anything with it because that would make it a tool rather than the art it is, beautiful piece, love the weasle. Potty trully is the Messiah of Magic".
Here is a suggested script: Pull out Prop and hold up: "Behold! A Sneaky Snake!......Thank you! return and pull out another "Look upon.....Run Wolf Run!.....Thank you, uh, Mateys" return and pull out another "This one is the Fun House! Presently sold out! I'll give you a moment to appreciate it.....hmmmm delicious, uh...argh!" return and pull out last piece: "Happy Hyena! Nice huh? Well, that be it since your mother paid for the least expensive show, had she paid more I would have shown you my Ultimate Ring Grinder...but no way now, remember kids if your parents need a magician for YOUR party contact me, you have my card, argh, and when you get home visit http://wolfsmagic.com/products.htm to find the great secret to being a world class magician! Argh!" Note that Wolf does make the nicest looking and highest quality products in magic but unlike some have said (not you Potty the Hippy) you cannot have an entire show with nothing but props and expect much from it. props do not make the show and a chair suspension ruins one. |
|||||||||
Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Dear MagicSanta,
You have obviously never seen Bob Sheets do the Chair Suspension. I forgot to mention I got (get) a lot of performance material and ideas from my mentor/partner, Tom. - Mary Mowder |
|||||||||
Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I would like to jump back in here and say that
yes books are a a great place to start and to find many treasures and by using a book it allows you to be much more creative with the effect,. that being said I still pull ideas from all sorts of resources as mentioned by others - movies, tv shows, plays, other magicians etc etc. I am reminded of something Andre kole told me and that is that when he began in magic he would read through magic catologs and try to create the same effect only using his method. meaning he read what the trick did and then tried to create that effect, this helped him to become who he is today one of the most if not the most creative magician/illusionist ever! think about this how many times have we seen Copperfield do a close up trick on one of his specials and we all rush to find out where it is and where we can learn it and 99% of the time it was from a book like the crazy man hand cuffs found in tarbell! whats the expression these days - want to learn a new trick read an old book and want to learn an old trick read a new book, or some thing like that. again I would say books are or should be a major starting point but I do believe that there are some great magic props that in the right hands are miracles or brilliant routines. its the touch of the masters hand and that brings me to this final point! YOU - YOU are the most important part of YOUR show the audience is not buying the subtrunk or bigger wands or even a beautiful wolfs product, they are buying YOU and YOUR presentations of what you have be yourself and grab a good magic book and let the creativity flow! magically yours sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
|||||||||
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Bob Sheets does the chair suspension as a comedy routine correct?
|
|||||||||
gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
Let me simplify the whole discussion, Professionals know how to please an audience and get paid for it.
Gil Scott |
|||||||||
magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
It's very confusing using the term professional and amateur to describe competent and incompetent performers as there are many amateur professionals and professional amateurs about.
|
|||||||||
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
That is an important point. Some of the top magicians of all times never worked as pro's.
|
|||||||||
Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Yes MagicSanta,
Bob Sheets does the Chair Suspension for laughs. Sometimes I'll buy an effect and start performing it almost as the patter comes from the box (or the book or DVD etc...). I need to get to know an effect and how it works and plays before I get a feeling of how I'd like to change it. - Mary Mowder |
|||||||||
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
The problem with the chair suspension for kids show is every kid knows how it is done. It's only purpose is to have the magician throw his arms out so mom can take a photo. No fooly no inny. It actually plays better for older people because it is so obvious.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Amateurs and Professionals (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |