The Magic Cafe Forums - When to Say No?

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The Magic Cafe Forum Index ť ť The tricks are on me! ť ť When to Say No?

Danny Schreiber

New user
Pacific Northwest
24 Posts

Posted: Nov 12, 2010 5:26am

I am sure this has happened to many of us, but I wanted to hear some other reactions, thoughts, etc.?

I was asked to do a show for a wealthy non-profit charity fundraiser. I was told later that they could not pay for talent, since it was a fundraiser.

I am all for volunteering and donating my time, but something doesn't sit well with me when the organization is raising tens of thousands of dollars and they can't find a few bucks to pay the entertainers. I know they have to pay to rent the facility and they have to buy the food for the event.

What do you think? Am I way off on this?

Nala Nosmoht

Veteran user
Surrey,B.C. Canada,
331 Posts

Posted: Nov 12, 2010 10:15am

I agree,they should pay the performer. Non profit societies have budgets!

tobini

New user
Harrisonburg, VA
2 Posts

Posted: Nov 12, 2010 2:29pm

I have to agree with Nala. Several of the magicians in my IBM Ring(#320) and other friends of mine have said the same thing. Also, if you do a bunch of fundraisers for free you'll get the reputation as being the guy who does free shows. Not a good thing and a tough reputation to overcome. Quote your show and stick to your guns. Your Magic has value! It's not inappropriate to ask for compensation for it! If the organization has a DJ, is he/she gonna do their thing for free? Not a chance!

Father Photius

Grammar Host
El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo)
15702 Posts

Posted: Nov 12, 2010 10:35pm

You would be surprised at how many of such fundraisers they do pay some of the entertainers. Plus the administration of what ever charity it is, you can bet is getting paid. I only donate time to causes I want to personally support. And I have always had a hard and fast rule: if any entertainer gets paid, I get paid.

"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."

Danny Schreiber

New user
Pacific Northwest
24 Posts

Posted: Nov 13, 2010 6:32am

I felt really bad saying no, so I offered them a greatly reduced rate. They said no, but offered to give me lunch. I graciously declined. I am not at the point where I need to make up a sign that reads..."Will Do Magic For Food."

At least not yet....

JasonbytheOcean

Regular user
Washington, D.C.
101 Posts

Posted: Nov 15, 2010 1:29pm

If it's a cause I'm particularly interested in, I'll perform for free, though I do ask for a letter of reference that I can use later.

More importantly, I agree with Father Photius - I ask whether others (e.g., the caterer, any musicians, etc.) are donating their services or offering a discount. If so, I'm more agreeable to volunteering my time.

Dr. Delusion

Special user
Eugene, Oregon.
587 Posts

Posted: Nov 16, 2010 8:38am

A while back I had a Lady call and asked if we would do a show at a annual upcoming event. I told her our rate and She replied that they don't have a budget for the family stage we would be performing on. On another stage they have a few bands playing throughout the day. I knew my brothers band played at the same event the year before and they got paid, so I asked her if the bands get paid, and at least she was honest and replied " Yes ". She really had no decent explanation for why they get paid and that no one on the family stage got paid. About the only other thing she said was the standard line that it would be great exposer becouse they draw about 40,000 folks for the event. So I asked if we could sell stuff after our show and her reply was that they don't allow entertainers to sell items. Needless to say I passed on that one.
Bob.

kal

Regular user

110 Posts

Posted: Feb 23, 2011 5:45pm

I think, basically, it's okay to say no when you don't want to do it. Whatever your reasons my be it is your time and you have the final say in how to spend it.

Any guilt or so on you feel is something personal, but at the end of the day if you don't want to do it then that was more important so you're guilt can take a running jump.

I'm always honest about when I'm lying. And I'm always lying...

NexusMagicShop

Elite user
Sunny California
432 Posts

Posted: Mar 25, 2011 9:49pm

It's okay to decline if they offer nothing in return for your time and talent. Charitable events often use the word Charity as a means of acquiring donations or money. While it's charitable to collect money and donations for a cause. I feel that it is also abused when it comes to asking for a talents time without any form of compensation or way of earning your compensation for the time invested.

Jason of NexusMagic
www.NexusMagicStore.com
"5 suppliers & 10 thousand products online"
www.twitter.com/Nexusmagicstore
www.BackroomMagic.com/| Mobile friendly magic blogs

Mike Maturen

Inner circle
building a horse pen and needs
2002 Posts

Posted: Mar 26, 2011 8:51am

I do an annual charitable event show (coming up 4/7! Last year was the first year, and I donated my time because I already had the magic. This year, however, I needed new effects to perform, so I asked if the organization would pony up some money to help with that. They had received a grant, so they graciously complied. I also solicited funds from our local KofC (I am the Grand Knight) and they gave some money as well...because this event is designed to raise awareness about child abuse and neglect.

I get to perform for our local community, and I now have several new effects that I can use to make money at other shows!

Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: Fellowship of Christian Magicians, KIDabra International

Funkytek

Regular user

118 Posts

Posted: Jun 13, 2011 10:25am

That is not right, If you are asked & told that you might not be getting paid & you are 17 that is ok but if you a performer & that is how yo make a living then you have to ask for a donation it is your time they might think being a magician is easy but they have no idea the time & effort we give to make magic magic...So you need to get paid for the time. You can also do this say that you can do it for 1/2 off your regular price. Good luck!

rsylvester

Loyal user
Trying to learn to BP a duck in
266 Posts

Posted: Jun 14, 2011 12:19am

A friend of mine plays in a band. They get paid to do charity events. If they pay musicians, they should pay magicians.

maxnew40

Veteran user

397 Posts

Posted: Jun 14, 2011 12:51pm

I am also a musician and these type of offers come in a lot for my band. Most years we will choose one event to do as charity and the rest can either meet our regular fee or hire someone else.

-Max

magicgeekone

New user

16 Posts

Posted: Jun 19, 2011 12:05am

This is what I do maybe we could add to this

1. Everything MUST be donated from the cook to the Valet
2. Understanding that Im a professional and I might have to cancel last minute to take a Paid gig.
3. If the Charity can not afford me then it is their responsibility to find a major corporation to sponsor my fee that way I get paid, the charity gets a show and the sponsor gets mention as a major contributor to the event in the program or on stage and they get a tax receipt for the company. If they do not agree then so be it, go look in the phone book and start at the top

Dave

Rectify

New user

52 Posts

Posted: Jun 23, 2011 9:24pm

I agree, you should get at least something. I mean, volunteering is nice but they're bringing in tens of thousands... You definitely deserve something.

syshacker

New user

4 Posts

Posted: Jul 7, 2011 4:03pm

If you are actively volunteering at a hospital, then you shouldn't ask for money, but if you are invited to an event that has a budget, then you need to be paid...

Mike Maturen

Inner circle
building a horse pen and needs
2002 Posts

Posted: Jul 9, 2011 8:52am

One idea I had...and I plan to try out...is to agree to do a charity show (my full-length stage show) at no charge. However, whatever we bring in at the Box Office, I get 30% of. The charity keeps 70%. So if a theatre holds 1,000 people, and we sell out at $10 a ticket, then I get $3,000 and the charity gets $7,000. It gives the charity incentive to get butts into the seats, and gives me the same incentive as well.

What do you folks think?

B. Scarne

New user

2 Posts

Posted: Nov 12, 2011 7:02pm

Interesting topic...You know why these organizations ask magicians to work for free? Because so many magicians will. You are percieved as having no time, skill or value because in general peeps have no idea what it takes to be good at magic, but most everybody played an instrument at some point in their lives and know that takes skill and effort and expense. And when one of our peers works for free the thought is reinforced.

I ask one simple question. Is EVERYBODY connected with the event donating their time and resources? The answer is always no. My follow-up question is always the same. Then why are you asking me too?

I have a suggestion. Just work the street and some local night clubs. Show-up, have fun make a few bucks and move on to the next gin joint. If you are any good somebody is going to notice, and you can get the ball rolling. If nobody is noticing and you are not making any money (because you are not any good or have not learned how to ask for money - aka close the deal) then you need to re-examine your career choice or learn how to close.

rpierce

Special user
New Hampshire - USA
746 Posts

Posted: Nov 16, 2011 8:19am

I regularly perform for charities, but I offer my services. I know people that run charities and they have offered to pay me to perform, when I am done I donate my fee back to them. But to solicite your services for a freebie is pretty lame, if you said no, they would go to the next performer and the next until they got one to bite.

When I have a personal relationship with the people and I know the circumstances and that the request is real because they wanted me not just anyone, I would definitely do it.

If its a call out of the blue from people I do not know, I would think twice about it.

www.perceptionsofthemind.com

SmithMagicMan

Regular user

198 Posts

Posted: Dec 2, 2011 5:51pm

Yeah, that pecks my head.

I did something for a primary school fair, and I'm only 15, but I'm an alright performer - they said they couldn't pay for the talent.

Then, at the fair I see like a girl my age who is on stilts wearing make-up.

She got paid Ł50 for the gig.

Grr.

Brian Proctor

Inner circle
Oregon
2212 Posts

Posted: Dec 4, 2011 2:07pm

Hey Danny, I quit performing for those types of events because it took a lot out of my pocket book (gas to drive, time...). After you do it one or two times, they get the idea that your cheap entertainment and keep trying to get you to do it over and over. Though I will on rare occasion, if it is for a friend, give them a free evening, but that is it. I had a friend tell me, we should never be less than any other form of entertainment. Bands get paid, why shouldn't we? Organizations, companies, people, have money and will pay for good entertainment. Another thing, if you accept a gig where you have promised to donate your time and another group/client later on asks you to perform for the same time and date, and is willing to pay... you have hurt yourself.

www.BrianProctorMagic.com

fearful_wizard

New user

1 Post

Posted: Dec 16, 2011 6:34am

I did a gig years ago for the homeless on Christmas Day for free, I was never offered anything, not even a cup of tea.
Put one of the staff in my headchopper for a laugh, and she said if I cut her hair she would be xxxxxxx annoyed.
Never said goodbye when I left, they then rang the following year to see if I would do it again.
You can guess my polite reply.

RayBanks

Special user
Nassau Bay, TX
533 Posts

Posted: Jan 4, 2012 2:33pm

Quote:

On 2011-11-16 08:19, rpierce wrote:
I regularly perform for charities, but I offer my services. I know people that run charities and they have offered to pay me to perform, when I am done I donate my fee back to them.

Some entertainers take their fee and then write a personal check back to the organization as a donation, That way you get paid for the gig an also get a tax deduction.

-------------
Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one

Ray Banks

rasmus

Special user
Switzerland
859 Posts

Posted: Apr 24, 2012 8:12pm

I made several beneficary events and was paid for them. I made a special price
but was still paid well. my price reduction is about 20%

if they have the money to organize a big event, they also have the money for
a magician.

a reduced price is logical and normal to me. like that, the same organisation
booked me several times, so finally it comes back to you more then once.

A World without Magic is a World without Dreams and Hope:)

Rasmus 2012

rmann

New user
Milton VT and a forum newbie with only
86 Posts

Posted: May 9, 2012 1:38pm

Just an idea...I realize this is an old thread. If an organization cannot for some reason pay you, in the US you should be able to ask them for a receipt for a charitable donation 'in kind' for services rendered. In other words your fee which you would normally charge would be the 'donation', for which you get a receipt and can use when filing your taxes. You would not see an immediate benefit, but if you itemize your tax return at the end of the year, it could make a sizeable difference in your refund without directly taking anything out of the organizations budget.

<See your tax professional...blah, blah, blah...insert disclaimer here!>

Ray

_

Ray

"...to Him who alone does great wonders, His love endures forever." Ps 136:4

Ihop

Veteran user
Springfield, NJ
368 Posts

Posted: Jun 3, 2012 11:47pm

Quote:

On 2012-05-09 13:38, rmann wrote:
Just an idea...I realize this is an old thread. If an organization cannot for some reason pay you, in the US you should be able to ask them for a receipt for a charitable donation 'in kind' for services rendered. In other words your fee which you would normally charge would be the 'donation', for which you get a receipt and can use when filing your taxes. You would not see an immediate benefit, but if you itemize your tax return at the end of the year, it could make a sizeable difference in your refund without directly taking anything out of the organizations budget.

<See your tax professional...blah, blah, blah...insert disclaimer here!>

I'm fairly certain that you cannot deduct services rendered (for tax purposes).
I did work for 2 non profits and they paid me for the work and then I wrote a check to them as a donation.
The down side is the check they gave me is income & taxable.

Ihor

Ray

Ihor

juliusmagic

New user
Jacksonville
25 Posts

Posted: Jun 16, 2012 9:23pm

If I have a lot of gigs coming up, I decline ( unless its for a very good cause). Always a good way to promote though!

Tamariz

New user

45 Posts

Posted: Aug 27, 2012 8:10pm

Unless you're so busy then why not say yes? Why not share the show and your talent?

ronnyman

New user
Indiana
56 Posts

Posted: Sep 5, 2012 6:37pm

Anyone has the choice not to volunteer his or her time. I don't think it should matter what other talents or staff are getting paid. The reality is that there aren't a lot of organizations that would pony up for a magician so it's just up to you whether to do it or not.

Countage