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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Penn & Teller: Fool Us (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TomBoleware
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But Scott, America's Got Talent judges aren't magicians.

Oh I'm sure I would probably watch it too if on here.

I just can't see why someone would want to be on it.

Why would you want to prove on TV you not as good as P&T?

I can tell you here, I'm not. Smile

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

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Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On 2011-07-19 15:00, Scott Burton wrote:
Personally, I enjoy the show. They highlight some great performers I would not otherwise have seen. And, IMO, P & T are very gracious to the performers, respectful to the magic, and make the show a lot of fun.

My wife really enjoys the show too. She doesn't usually like watching magicians on TV and this is one of the few shows magic-themed shows she actually enjoys watching.

I can't speak for magicians in general but, as I mentioned, I think the show is great.

America's Got Talent is way more harsh and negative to the performers.


Scott, you seem like a really great guy and I think you have very valid points. I would actually put this in the exact same category as AGT in that they are making a show at the expense of the performers (who are typically performing for free at least on AGT). I have seen some very good performances on the P&T show but at what cost? The cost is exposing the ones who didn't meet the challenge. I will stop for short of saying that AGT (or P&T's show for that matter) is "rigged" but let's just say that it can be heavily manipulated by who the producers choose to put on the show.

These shows are "cast" by producers who know very well that some acts are never going to get through and others have a great chance. It's not like all of the acts are fairly or evenly matched like a prize fight. Do we really think that an illusion act is going to fool P&T with a traditional method? Of course not. They were cast on the show as cannon fodder. Others a cast as they have a clever routine with a very new and virtually unknown method which will probably fool the pair. This doesn't guarantee a specific result but is FAR from random.

AGT in particular appeals to delusional contestants who have no clear judgement on their own abilities. The producers and talent coordinators build them up to be shot down.

To what degree the producers of the P&T show do this are totally unknown, but it is a SOP for many shows.

It WILL appeal to a lot of people which is it's main goal and could even be good for magic although that is very subjective and really unknown at this point. After all, Val said he did the Masked Magician to be good for magic and to get magicians to come up with new methodology. Most agreed this was a bunch of baloney to justify him doing it for the money. I would tend to agree with the majority there.

Magic ebbs and flows and is lambasted then rejuvenated constantly. This is yet another part of the process we have to accept. Just let the people admit they are doing it for the money and exposure and not try and convince us they are doing it for the Art.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Scott Burton
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I love how Penn goes out of his way to complement the performers and the performances. It's a great feedback strategy to give many positives before giving a negative (just as you did so kindly in replying to me). Even the kid performing with standard props got complemented for being just as they were when they were starting and how he has a great future in magic. P & T are sharp guys and know how to play the balance between giving what the audience wants in reality TV (potential perceived risks and rewards) and giving due respect to the performers. I would hate to see this show with judges other than P & T. Of course, this is purely my personal interpretation.
Richard L.
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I too enjoy the show, (minus the exposure of methods that occasionally occurs).

Luis de Matos sums it up best in this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=298&1
aussiemagik
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I personally like the show. We need something like that in the US. David Blaine and Criss Angel are ok, but I really enjoyed the multiple act shows such as World Greatest Magic series. Plus, P&T Fool Us keeps me highly entertained when I'm on my ship once a week for the Navy. It's the perfect way to spend 45 minutes before I go to sleep, lol.
bbarefoot
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I have had a chance to catch this show, and I find it to be excellent. Its a great way for the magicians to advertise and get their name out there in the public, and the added benefit of getting a chance at performing on a Vegas stage if you can fool Penn and Teller.
As far as the complaints they are revealing too much, I have not yet seen them reveal anything in a form that the lay audience would understand. I would be perfectly comfortable watching it with any friends and family and be confident that no more secrets would be revealed to them than have been revealed by some bad magician I dragged them to see perform. They are very careful to keep the explanations to a minimum while trying to prove they weren't fooled, and in some cases refused to use technical names that could be easily googled.
TomBoleware
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Advertising magic that doesn't fool.

For some reason that just doesn't sound right to me. LOL

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

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bbarefoot
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Every performer I have seen perform has managed to get some great praise from Penn and Teller, and they get to perform on television. So regardless if the fool Penn and Teller or not, they have some quotes about their act and can say they were on the show. Their ability to fool or not has no correlation to their ability to entertain. I have seen some great performances that did not manage to fool Penn and Teller, which then gets the added advantage of the lay audience saying but they should have got to go to Vegas they did so well.

So I guess it comes down to your skills at entertaining and marketing, as to whether you benefit from the show or if you hinder yourself.

Bradley
Howie Diddot
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Quote:
On 2011-07-19 22:39, TomBoleware wrote:
Advertising magic that doesn't fool.

For some reason that just doesn't sound right to me. LOL

Tom



After watching the youtube videos, I am thinking this is a very cleaver technique to hold auditions for a Las Vegas show.

Instead of paying to rent a studio and pay for a crew, and then paying to advertise a call for all magician’s to come and audition for a show; they have created a show to televise and make money by broadcasting the show and have the magicians audition in this manner,

They make money auditioning and get free advertising for the Las Vegas show at the same time; which I am sure will become a DVD for sale
inhumaninferno
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I just saw a clip with Mathieu Bich and it gets a thumbs up from me. He did a great trick. P&T offered their opinion on what they thought was fishy without any type of exposure. Mathieu was ready for them and had a great little burn which P&T got a real kick out of-so Mathieu fooled them! Haven't seen any others, but this one rocked!
Stevini
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It's a great show IMO. The people who say they don't understand why anyone would go on it, clearly don't get the sheer marketing power of 7 million people (in the UK alone), seeing you perform. That alone would treble your bookings and your income overnight; providing you had a great, easy to find web presence. It's a marketing dream come true. A better question would be, "why wouldn't you want to be on it?" This post assumes that the majority of magicians want to make a good living from their career.
SteveFromSpokane
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Quote:
On Jul 23, 2011, inhumaninferno wrote:
I just saw a clip with Mathieu Bich and it gets a thumbs up from me. He did a great trick. P&T offered their opinion on what they thought was fishy without any type of exposure. Mathieu was ready for them and had a great little burn which P&T got a real kick out of-so Mathieu fooled them! Haven't seen any others, but this one rocked!



That was just beautiful. Wow.
gdw
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2011, Stevini wrote:
It's a great show IMO. The people who say they don't understand why anyone would go on it, clearly don't get the sheer marketing power of 7 million people (in the UK alone), seeing you perform. That alone would treble your bookings and your income overnight; providing you had a great, easy to find web presence. It's a marketing dream come true. A better question would be, "why wouldn't you want to be on it?" This post assumes that the majority of magicians want to make a good living from their career.


Exactly.
Considering the act that "won" the first season was Piff, and he did not fool them, this is precisely why someone would go on this show.

That, and to meet P&T, or they really believe they can fool them, or all of the above.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2011, Stevini wrote:
It's a great show IMO. The people who say they don't understand why anyone would go on it, clearly don't get the sheer marketing power of 7 million people (in the UK alone), seeing you perform. That alone would treble your bookings and your income overnight; providing you had a great, easy to find web presence. It's a marketing dream come true. A better question would be, "why wouldn't you want to be on it?" This post assumes that the majority of magicians want to make a good living from their career.


Yea doesn't quite work that way.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Bairefoot
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I would still love to get on the Show.

Bairefoot
Jaqk Clemente
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Recently I was able to interview the producers of the show in the audition they made in Italy:

How To Get An Audition For Penn & Teller: Fool Us
https://www.prestigiazione.it/wp/how-to-......fool-us/
http://www.prestigiazione.it/ - Magic News in Italy * http://www.magicschool.it/ - Italian Magicians' Board
Dannydoyle
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I want to start this by saying I like the show and respect Penn and Teller. I think the show is great for magic in general and elevates the art.

BUT do want to address the idea that somehow your bookings will triple or whatever just by being on this, or any show. This is a VERY common and incorrect and misguided thought process. In many ways this thought works against those who end up getting this type of chance.

Your value to a client is not based on the fact that you were fortunate enough to get on TV. Especially now. With the glut of shows on TV now the value of such a spot has diminished considerably. (It is still great to do and it is still cool and should not be turned down.) Your value is based on your show, what you bring to the table for the client, your position in the market place and a list of other factors.

This misinterpretation of value based on being on TV for 3 minutes often gets an act to decide that they can now charge X$ for their show. A vastly inflated price based upon thinking they are of greater value simply because of being on TV. If the rest of the factors are not in place to back up such a position the client then balks. At that point they either can do one of a couple things. They can extend their budget, and when they do they often start thinking "if we do that we can afford .....". That person who HAS done all the other things necessary for the client to know they are worth that. Or they can walk away.

In other words you start to lose business. I have seen it happen time and time again. I have had guys walk away from me using them or demand more money just because they have hit the 3 minute TV spot and then 2 or 3 months later they are calling wanting the work again at the old price because they are starving. They can't find work at the new price point at all.

Your value has to be based on something tangible. It has to be based on something that clients can easily see. A 3 minute TV spot is not something to base a large value on.

Again I want to say I think the show is great, and being on it is a wonderful experience for anyone. I have never heard anyone have a bad experience on the show. It is probably a good experience on all levels and if you have an opportunity and are fortunate enough to go on I think you should.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Amen! There are no less than three current threads here claiming the same. As someone who has coached or consulted over a half a dozen America's Got Talent contestants, I can assure you this is not true. This always seems to be proclaimed by someone not truly in the know or who has never seen or been part of the process - ESPECIALLY THE AFTERMATH. It simply isn't true and has Danny has started to point out, in more situations than not, the opposite effect happens for the next year or two.

This is wrong for so many reasons if you truly think about it it is easy to realize, but, of course, most don't and only see it on the surface, and make their own assumptions and opinions based on really nothing.

I think this is another one of those things that magician's don't really want to hear the truth. As an agency owner and talent broker, I get avails and routing information (including pricing) on many of these acts and you would be surprised what they make, and often times it continues to drop down practically to the price of a local performer in Tulsa, Ann Arbor, Park City or any other American town or city.

Now, sure the winners and perhaps a finalist or two will see an increase in price for about 6-9 months, but if they don't do something more with the opportunity and have a specific strategy in that time (which is why they often contact me to work with them to monetize the opportunity) the drop beings quickly. Same for American Idol, The Voice An dP&T.

That's the other thing pertaining here to Tricky Business, is most of these performers have no idea how to utilize and monetize it when the show is over, and the AGT machine isn't in play with them. Penn & Teller is much smaller and the after-effects are as well, even for the foolers.

This is something I have always been passionate about and of course, have lived it first hand. My first time on Oprah, it went to millions of people in something like 18 countries. I was told the very same thing, It was about to catapult me into five figures per booking, international fame, yada, yada, yada. I was ready.... and I didn't receive one call. Not an inquiry, nothing. All I got out of it was performing for her Christmas Party and I got that before the show even aired. it simply doesn't happen that way anymore. There was a time when the right spot on Johnny Carson, for a comedian, could be life-changing but again, that was still the expectation to the rule. You will hear about Rosanne, Jim Carey, Drew Carey, Ellen, Seinfeld, Leno, Tim Allen and others that this occurred, but there were hundreds or maybe thousands of other comedians who it did absolutely nothing for, except maybe making them enjoy 15 minutes of fame for a few weeks in the $100 a night comedy clubs.

It is amazing how many believe this misperception.
Wravyn
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@Dannydoyle and Mindpro,
Thank you for that informative and great information. I enjoy your sharing of knowledge with things like this. There are times that you have answered questions I have had but had no idea what or how to ask. Thank you again.
Dannydoyle
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No problem.

The other thing to mention because it is counterintuitive, is that if you plan on taking advantage of being on the show then all the work needs to be done and in place BEFORE the show airs to properly take advantage to the full extent.

Putting the clip on your Web page is cool and all but it is as far as most go to try to get milage from an appearance.

You have a small window of opportunity that closes SO fast. Taking advantage of it is not easy and has to be well planned. Waiting for the phone to ring is all most do.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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