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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
I agree. Who does Brendan think he is taking credit for his hours of editing and organising to put together this podcast? It's all down to Mark mentioning it.
Great podcast. I enjoyed it. I have always said that one of the reasons David's book was so successful (aswell as the excellent writing and solid routines) is that he was able to explain the UK methods of entertaining in a succinct, easy to understand way to the US market. I didn't see many pantomimes or punch shows so I feel I learnt the UK methods via supreme manuscripts. Which was kind of nice because rather than reading 'do this, do that' I discovered the methods that work from reading them put into practise. |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Edwin of Supreme Magic had a lot to do with the obvious superiority of British performers. Alas now that Supreme have gone, the British have become worse and the Americans are catching up. We are still ahead though. I alone will carry the standard forward. Which reminds me. I think it is about time we had Jolly Roger back here. If I can return so can he since he causes far less trouble than I do.
Don't make him a VIP though. His ego is massive enough as it is. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
If there was a competition to find out which country has the worst magicians we would easily win.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
Who let that juggler in here? The only thing more insufferable than an juggler would be a British juggler. They'd be completely intolerable. As it is we'll have to put up with Al, turncoat that he is.
Genuine thanks to Brendan though, I truly did enjoy the interview. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
David
You are absolutely right ever since I started posting here I have found the UK magicians to be both civil, and funny. Of course your opinions of jugglers does not deter me from liking you. LOL
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
There's no accounting for taste.
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arielf Regular user Toronto, Canada 133 Posts |
If I may chime in.... My own experience, which is definitely from "out in left field", seems to confirm that there are different styles on both sides of the Atlantic. Here's my story; you be the judge.
After I translated "Performing Magic for Children", I asked Richard Lyn, Toronto's top children's entertainer for decades, to help me adapt it for North American magicians (since I'm a card-and-story guy who knows nothing about kid shows). Richard was very impressed with the book because it describes almost exactly the UK style of performing (the book was written by German magicians). Being a card-and-story guy, I cleverly replied: "Huh?" So Richard explained the differences between the North American and English approaches. It turns out that he learned the British way, from UK magicians and books, and the time he spent in England, performing and honing his craft. He became aware of the different styles from observing North American magicians perform, attending lectures and reading books. Richard also attributes his success in part to the UK approach, which he finds more engaging. To give you an idea of Richard's success: more than once, I've seen people stop him on the street, telling him how they remember him doing a show for them when they were children (and often, how that led them to hire him, years later, to do a show for THEIR children). After I published the book, I sent out review copies. The Linking Ring review was lukewarm -- not because of the book itself, but because the reviewer didn't like my ad (which he actually states in the review). So he proceeded to belittle the book. The overall tone is quite disparaging, but if you look at his specific objections, all of them are about beliefs that differ from North American views. (For the record: they're not even about magic. He didn't object to any of the core material, only to a few peripheral points.) Normally, when a new product comes out, sales are brisk for a while, then they taper off. This was not the case for "Performing Magic for Children". Perhaps it was because of the LR review, perhaps not, but sales were like a continuous trickle for a long time. I got frequent small wholesale orders and less frequent individual orders. A few years later, I started getting a steady stream of individual orders, all from the UK. Some were from very well-known kid show performers, others were from non-magician children's entertainers (clowns, jugglers, 'ballooners', etc.). A few of the big names even wrote to me later, telling me how much they would've liked to have such a book when they started out, because it would've helped them avoid years of trial and error (but for some reason, they seem reluctant to acknowledge this publicly.) This was all amazing to me. What had happened? I can only guess that someone -- or several someones -- in Britain 'discovered' the book and spread the word that this is THE book to get to learn the craft. The English way -- even if it's all the way from Germany In the end, I sold about as many copies though the continuous trickle as I would have if it had followed the standard new-product pattern (and it's still selling). But only because it became popular in the UK. So I can't help but wonder: if the book is so good, why hasn't it been 'discovered' on this side of the Atlantic? Could it be precisely because it's different from the North American approach -- which implies that there are different styles? For the record, I have it on good authority that a certain 'silly' magician -- who shall remain nameless -- privately gave the book high praise shortly after it came out. Telling? Coincidence? Thank you for reading!
Ariel Frailich - I Saw That! Exclusive Magic, publisher of Sub Rosa, Reading Writing, Card Stories, Performing Magic for Children and other fine magic books.
https://isawthat.com |
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
Very interesting. I find that magic show's for babies gets mixed up with magic shows for children.
So the very english 'who is a silly sausage then?' type stuff will get sneered at by older children. For an older child some of the American and Canadian magicians are hard to beat!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
Al still likes me, despite my best efforts to dissuade him. There IS no accounting for taste.
Interesting post Arielf. Is the book still available? |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Arielf
Richard Lyn is in a class by himself, and he simply can not be compared to anyone, which makes Mark Lewis the second best magician in Toronto. David There are many members of the magic Café who don't like me, so take a number, and get in line. LOL
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
Now serving number 675, number 675... whew, this line is long. I don't think I have enough patience to dislike you Al.
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-12 13:58, Al Angello wrote: Don't be silly, Al. I am MARK LEWIS! Richard himself says I am better than he is. Mind you, I know perfectly well he doesn't mean it and is just saying it to humour me. In any event I am well aware of Richard's ability and he is well aware of my ability. What neither of us are aware of is YOUR ability! Danny Doyle is right. You are a troublemaker. With regard to Ariel he should be taken notice of. I have always said that he knows everything. And while he is here that although he did indeed lay out and design my own book, "The Lives of a Showman" he had absolutely nothing to do with the photograph on the cover which he considered to be utterly tacky. He begged and pleaded with me not to use it to no avail. He was terrified that people would associate it with his good name. So I am telling you all here and now that he had nothing whatsoever to do with it. I do hope that makes him feel better. It is enough of a disgrace to be associated with Mark Lewis in the first place. His own publication is entitled "Performing Magic for Children" and the authors are two German chaps whose names I have quite forgotten and I can't be bothered looking them up. They are the same two fellows who wrote the acclaimed Potassy book. |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-12 13:45, Markymark wrote: American and especially Canadian magicians are VERY easy to beat regardless of the age of the children. You can still work the British way for older children if you heed the advice in Open Sesame on how to do it. All you have to remember is that so called older children are STILL children. Up to the age of 9 years old you can work the same way to 5 year olds as you do to 9 year olds. After that you have to adapt slightly and eliminate certain tricks and bits of business but overall keep to the same methods of working. And talking about Open Sesame which is a British book, if you do not read the opening chapter of this book as all British kids entertainers do (with the possible exception of the Amazing Stephen) and most American magicians don't, you cannot possibly become a good children's entertainer. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Mark
You never fail to make me laugh. If I were doing a show with you, and Richard in the audience I would be scared to death. Thank God Danny doesn't go to the little darlings. BTW I have started to read your book in an effort to improve my show.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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wbzwolinski Loyal user 232 Posts |
An International Magic Competition...sounds like we can be on our way to a Magicians Olympics. The events can be: vanishes, productions, levitations, transpositions. And of course the humor...physical: slapstick, pratt falls, double takes, dead pan looks, etc..., and verbal: situational, exaggerism, blunders, and wit.
OK, this is just stupid...sorry. Wolly
Keep it Simple...Play it BIG!!!
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Harv Inner circle I'm building a fence with 1127 Posts |
I have a friend in Bristol who went to the Blackpool convention when Silly Billy was lecturing a couple of years ago. He did a few routines with some of the kids in the audience and according to my buddy he bombed big time.
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
Yes, it is true that he did not do well in Blackpool. But then neither did Bev Bergeron who, I was told by Paul Diamond, was Florida's best magician. But David Ginn didn't do well either. And I am delighted to inform you all that somebody told me that Jolly Roger had a struggle too, no doubt because he was talking too posh for them and didn't learn my Bongo Hat routine properly.
But then you must remember that they were all working to lower working class Northern English children who wouldn't have understood their accents. Kimmo was probably the only one they understood so that is why he won the title of the least crappiest children's entertainer in the world. And Kimmo knows to his credit that the competition in Blackpool is a load of tosh anyway. However, that Blackpool show that David Kaye died in was a long time ago probably before he discovered the British way of working. And since then I understand that Kimmo has been teaching him a Yorkshire accent which will help if he ever gets booked again. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Mark, I have not read Open Sesame yet. But then I am an exponent of the Irish style.
I will share one experience. Nearly twenty years ago I was on vacation in America, and I did a few tricks for the relatives at a big family get together. This was before I began doing magic. I messed around as a child and teenager, but quit at eighteen for a decade. So the quality of what I was doing was distinctly dodgy. What surprised me was that what I did went down very well. People said afterwards that what they loved was the humour and the fact that I got so much out of so little. They said it was completely different to the style of magic they were used to, and they also said that I could be a hit in New York with my style. That kind of bears up what Mark is saying. I have no clips of myself performing but a guy recorded me at a gig recently and has promised to give me the clip. Out of curiosity I will post it when I get it, and let you all decide whether the Irish style is different from the British and the American.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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*Mark Lewis* V.I.P. 1325 Posts |
I have seen the Irish style many, many times. It is identical to the British style which isn't that surprising when you think about it.
I was discussing the difference between American magicians and British magicians with a chap from Alaska of all places. I told him I was no good at describing the difference so he offered to help. He favours the British style. He feels that the US style of comedy is more joke orientated whereas the British style comes more from funny situations rather than jokes. He pointed out that the British style of comedy comes from funny situations that the magician finds himself in. Like when Sammy Smith sucks the silks in on the silk tube. he says, "I nearly scarfed that down." That is a joke. Word play. If a British magician were to do that bit he would say, "Eeew, I blew the wrong way. I blew in instead of blowing out." Big difference. He said that David Ginn is an example of the American style. He also gave me a video clip of someone doing things in the American way. I only post this as an example of the US style rather than to comment on the performer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JUK0-K7Ec I think a clear way to explain what is happening is that the leaders of the American childrens magic community (Ginn, B Mitchell, Duane) teach and perform in the US style. that's their philosophy of performance. But the students ( the buyers, and convention attendees) learn from all types (Silly Billy, Kimmo, Terry Herbert, and others) and their amalgam style is a combination of everyones material. That is to say the leaders have a pure style and the masses pick up one trick from this fellow and one from that fellow. . |
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
You know, theres a third version of culture magic to be considered here: Asian. When I was in Tokyo, And later in Hong-Kong, and then in Seoul, I got to see a number of magic acts and here is how I would summarize them: 1) walk out onto stage 2) Make the biggest MESS you possibly can 3) Take your bow. Basicly all they did was throw / sprinkle / shoot around 120 lbs. of confetti & streamers all over the place. It's pretty, and paired with music it's fun to watch I guess, but it's neither funny nor really MAGICAL per-se. (I did pick up some REALLY cool streamer effects while there!) In Japan, there WAS a bit more focus on the actual tricks & Sleights. And another thing I noticed: kid-audiences in China and Japan are so well-behaved it's scary!! (almost like theyre doped-up on something!)
As for US style vs UK style....I must say I've always gotten the best results when I aim for big-laughs and intersperse the magic within said hilarity. Armed with laughter, a $10 crystal-tube will get better results than a $300 floating table.
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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