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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 3:52am
Obviously Brad, I was referring to clips, further reference material etc that you may have had of the routines you made mention of in the previous post. A 12yr old could have worked that out.
"But it was you who claimed magicians regularly conveyed miracles with forks in their pockets. Who? "
No I didn't. As is obvious from the posts above. It was you that started the whole thing -again obvious from all the above. And still no regard for the offensive and ridiculous other things you've said. With so much knowledge and experience, you could offer so much to so many. It's a shame.
Regards
Me
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Decomposed
Eternal Order
Cannot See
10612 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 4:20am
Anyone bought this yet?
Decomp
0320 hrs CST
90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation!
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 4:51am
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On 2011-08-02 15:52, truthteller wrote:
Please, rabid, with all your years performing metal bending for paying audiences, tell me why that is wrong.
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Brad,
Just curious as to why you always ask questions that you already know the answers to?
Steph
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 4:56am
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On 2011-08-03 04:20, Decomposed wrote:
Anyone bought this yet?
Decomp
0320 hrs CST
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As far as I can tell only one person on this thread has actually bought it, perhaps he will drop a review online so we can have some proper information.
Brad and I have been discussing his beliefs in cutlery, kids and mental illness...different subjects to this product altogether.
Steph
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 8:20am
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 03:52, Rabid wrote:
"But it was you who claimed magicians regularly conveyed miracles with forks in their pockets. Who? "
No I didn't. As is obvious from the posts above. It was you that started the whole thing -again obvious from all the above.
Regards
Me
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.
In response to my position that carrying around ones own forks turns what was once a miracle into a mere trick, you wrote:
" there are still people in the world performing metal bending routines that give awe and a sense of the miraculous to their audience"
Your position has been one counter to mine - my claim being that it is not only physically uncomfortable to carry forks in ones pocket, but it is both a socially and magically unsound practice. So I can only assume by your statement above that these alleged miracle makers are indeed carrying forks around in their pockets - else you would agreeing with me.
So - who are they?
As to clips of caveney and thompsoni - I doubt you will find any. As I said, what value is it for a working magician to have clips of their bread and butter online for other magicians to steal from. Both men work conventions all over the world, perhaps you can see them at one of the Many you attend.
And, I don't always ask questions to Elicit answers for myself, but for others who might benefit from having clarification.
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 9:18am
Boy oh boy...you simply do not quit, do you fella?
The whole quoting bits n' pieces of others posts to prove yourself right would be all well and good if you at least quoted the entire bits...urgh, this is like pulling teeth.
You wrote:
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On 2011-08-01 13:19, truthteller wrote:
What many forget is that when uri began bending forks, he elevated the act into a world wide phenomena. It was a miracle. Now, it's little more than 'just another trick'. My dear friend jon Stetson had the brilliant idea of over dubbing one of the popular metal bending videos with the sounds of balloons squeaking as they do when twisted into animals for children. That's what we've managed to do with metal bending. It's a trick that literally kids at summer camp show their bunk mates.
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I replied thusly to that segment of your post:
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On 2011-08-02 05:54, Rabid wrote:
I'm busy so I won't give an opinion on the bit in the middle save to say that I'm pretty sure there are still people in the world performing metal bending routines that give awe and a sense of the miraculous to their audience, regardless if some kids at summer camp badly perform a bending spoon effect and then (perhaps) expose it to their mates or not. To suggest otherwise is a bit of a stretch.
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I was not, as you are very well aware, talking about forks in pockets or pants or whatever else, I was referring to your statement that metal bending is now just a summer camp trick for kids, and was pointing out that I believed that there are surely magicians in the world that still use it to create awe and a sense of the miraculous for their spectators, using your use of the word miracle. That was obvious from my answer then, as it is now...but not from the further posts of yours where you ignore the bits that don't suit you.
As to clips of magicians routines, performances...sorry you feel so strongly about it as a question. I was interested to see / read more about them as you'd mentioned them that's all. I fail to see what's wrong with that? And again, you ignore my mention of 'further reference' as in, the written kind, so that you can push the whole 'kiddie/youtube thing on me for no particular reason. (as you did in the earlier post...actually, don't bother asking, here's the quote: "And what performances do you want clips of? Mine? Do you really judge te legitimacy of a performer by their YouTube channel? Are you 12?"
My position wasn't to counter yours...I asked you a question (quite a simple one at that), you responded with some quite over-the-top statements...I then responded to 'them' as I was quite shocked by them...and you. That's all.
However, I do find it interesting that you say "As I said, what value is it for a working magician to have clips of their bread and butter online for other magicians to steal from." when you yourself have clips of your performances on your website?
Y'know, the more time we spend together Brad...the more I like you. I reckon you should update your videos though as they're all about 2yrs old. But I did enjoy viewing them as it's always educational to see pros working crowds, groups etc. I especially liked your, A Magician Walks into a bar', video..very nice.
Oh, one more thing...I have some Richard Osterlind material on Metal bending, but was wondering if you could recommend anything else, better etc?
Regards
Steph
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Paul Romhany
Vanish Magazine forum Staff
New Zealand
635 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 10:48am
Wow, people get really passionate on The Café don't they. Please don't yell at me - I'm just going to say what I know, and saw over this past weekend.
I thought I'd chime in here because I own Phork (the original) and was at the Canadian Magic Convention over this past weekend. Who should be next to my booth but the team from Ellusionist. I was able to watch the demonstration of their new release SHIFT. (I watched it several hundred times and also saw the jaws of magicians drop!)
It is a new release for Ellusionist because the original was by Jay Crowe, and called Phork, it also cost over $350. Because I own the original (yes I do use it combined with other metal bends), I wanted to find out more about Shift. I watched the guys demo of it for over 4 days.
It uses the same technology as Phork, but has some vast improvements as far as I could see. They worked along side the original creator of Phork, and have come up with a better looking bending fork. First of all, the fork itself looks more like a fork you would find in a restaurant (Denny's maybe:) You can get similar looking forks pretty much anywhere (Wallmart) and they would match this one. So if you threw it in with other fork routines I think this would be the climax where it really bends in a persons hand.
They have also coated it several times so it's more stronger looking than the original Phork - while I use and like Phork I do like the look of SHIFT better. It matches standard cutlery much better.
The big advantage of Shift, and something I really liked was the fact that it could stay out until it actually went in a persons hand. It would only bend when placed in somebody's hand. So the temperature of making it bend was much better for performance than the original. I used Phork on TV and it was perfect for that - Shift I feel would be better for live work. You could bring out a bunch of spoons and forks and leave it sitting amongst others for a long time, and only when it was picked up and touched would it bend. This is a big advantage over the original Phork. I do understand some people don't like the idea of supplying your own cutlery and I get that. If working a restaurant I would say this would certainly match, or come close to what they would use - so perhaps you could sneak it on a table.
The technology is the same as Phork, only improved upon, and the price is way better. I am a huge fan of spoon and fork bends, and having watched magicians all weekend drool over this I would say it's a great addition to the family of metal bending. As with anything I guess it depends when and where you use it. If you don't feel comfortable using your own spoons and forks then my advice is don't get it. However, for that time when you really want to have somebody actually bend the fork (I don't think it gets any stronger than this) in their hand, this is the version I would get.
Overall I really liked Shift. The fact it would only bend in a person's hand made it much more practical than the original.
Just my two cents worth from what I observed over the weekend.
"life is like a movie ... you write your own ending" - Kermit the Frog
http://extrememagicmakeover.com
http://www.paulromhany.com
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DougNicols
Special user
764 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 10:59am
Looks like they've dropped the price to $197
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toph
Regular user
Dock o' the Bay, California
162 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 1:00pm
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On 2011-08-02 13:11, truthteller wrote:
Offensive? You mean where I suggest Magicians often have no idea how their choices are negatively perceived by normal people? Or where I suggest we often make choices which undermine the potential impact of the material we present?
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Yes, I found that social retardation comment a bit rude and offensive. One could've used other choice of words, no? Try and proof read the things you say before posting on a public forum for everyone to see, especially your fellow peers. You truly need to get your head back on your shoulders and out of the clouds. Your posts on this thread alone make you look pretentious and arrogant.
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 3:39pm
We ask what magic tricks are best for picking up girls, we believe a new black deck will make us (or be thought of as) cool, we think wearing playing card ties and pins elevate us in the eyes of human beings, and we think walking around with forks in our pockets will not be thought of as odd - I think social retardation is a perfectly apt turn of phrase. Can you suggest a more accurate one?
Rabid, thanks for the clarification. Let's clarify further, you believe there are those who regularly produce the miracle feeling in their audiences with metal bending. Do you believe those people are doing so with their own forks pulled put of their pockets. If so, who are these people?
Ps. The magician bar video was half of a rather odd media project done by a friend. None of the videos I have were done by me. Just random things made by others.
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toph
Regular user
Dock o' the Bay, California
162 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 6:52pm
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 15:39, truthteller wrote:
We ask what magic tricks are best for picking up girls, we believe a new black deck will make us (or be thought of as) cool, we think wearing playing card ties and pins elevate us in the eyes of human beings, and we think walking around with forks in our pockets will not be thought of as odd - I think social retardation is a perfectly apt turn of phrase. Can you suggest a more accurate one?
Rabid, thanks for the clarification. Let's clarify further, you believe there are those who regularly produce the miracle feeling in their audiences with metal bending. Do you believe those people are doing so with their own forks pulled put of their pockets. If so, who are these people?
Ps. The magician bar video was half of a rather odd media project done by a friend. None of the videos I have were done by me. Just random things made by others.
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You sir, in my humble opinion, suffer from Grandiose Delusion.
Instead of an apology and simple retraction for unwillingly offending someone with your comment associating the term "Social Retardation" with:
"magicians who ask what magic tricks are best for picking up girls, those who believe a new black deck will make us (or be thought of as) cool, those who think wearing playing card ties and pins elevate us (speak for yourself, not everyone has/had the same mentality as you- honestly, Ive never even thought of wearing such a hideous display of cheesiness in all my life, but I digress) in the eyes of human beings, and those who think walking around with forks in their pockets will not be thought of as odd"
you still have the audacity to justify your remark in spite of it clearly striking a wrong chord with members here??? (please do not ask me to quote, make a list of names, and all that jazz, etc..I can almost sense it coming)
I understand you regard it as a harmless "apt turn of phrase" in which you can associate with "social misfit" magicians, but are you really that pompous to think everyone else in the world who may come across reading that remark is going to feel and think the same way as "The Great Truthteller" who just so happen to perform for 1200 people today?
I can forgive you for your ignorance, but what you fail to realize is the term "Socially Retarded" can be quite subjective with different people. There isn't a real definitive definition for the term, but it certainly is used in association with various disorders/deficiencies. I don't need to go into detail now as to what it personally means to me since I've already expressed my taken offense. Being the professional with the excellent caliber that you are, you should have already had the slightest clue after I clearly stated so. Since you asked for, and are in such dire need of one, here is a more polite and intelligent suggestion; how about you simply omit the "retarded" in exchange for "misfit" since the word "retarded", to me atleast, is a derogatory term, hence my taken offense? Was it really that hard for you to envisage such an elementary noun?
Since you obviously need some guidance and suggestions in regards to the term "Social Retardation", I will quote a rather interesting definition from a person who feels he suffers from such deficiency whom I think parallels with yours. I found it by simply googling the term "Social Retardation" to see how others define the term just for enlightenment. The blog can be found here: http://www.socialremorse.com/?p=9
According to a young man named Derrick on SocialRemorse, in Philosophy, Ramblings, dated Feb 23, 2007:
"...If you have spent any amount of time with me, you would know that I suffer from Social Retardation. Such a person has no idea how to act or communicate in the presence of others, but does not get embarrassed because they are not aware of their own deficiencies. I often find that I’ve offended someone but don’t realize that I’ve done it till it’s too late.
I like to take responsibility for my own actions, but I place this deficiency squarely on my father’s shoulders. His main focus in life was to embarrass me to the point of no return. Mowing the lawn in cut off jeans and cowboy boots was the norm. He desensitized me to not realizing my own iniquity..."
Ring any bells?
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 6:53pm
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 15:39, truthteller wrote:
We ask what magic tricks are best for picking up girls, we believe a new black deck will make us (or be thought of as) cool, we think wearing playing card ties and pins elevate us in the eyes of human beings, and we think walking around with forks in our pockets will not be thought of as odd - I think social retardation is a perfectly apt turn of phrase. Can you suggest a more accurate one?
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No one in this thread has asked any of these things Brad...it's all in your head Brother. And even if it wasn't, it still does not justify what you said. A grown man would be able to see and admit to that and move on.
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 15:39, truthteller wrote:
Rabid, thanks for the clarification. Let's clarify further, you believe there are those who regularly produce the miracle feeling in their audiences with metal bending. Do you believe those people are doing so with their own forks pulled put of their pockets. If so, who are these people?
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Yes, I'm sure there must be magicians in the world that still do metal bending acts that are more akin to amazement than "Wow, show me how it's done Chad", "Oh..okay, well what you do is...." I can say this with some assurance as you yourself have spoken of performing metal bending around the world. Therefore I'm assuming that you are one of those magicians that do this type of routine well...and not sue kid that has no concept of how to do it properly. Taking that as a given...I must be correct in my assumption. Please inform us if I am wrong. But once again, I have never stated that people walking around with foes in their pockets are creating miracles and awe...that was you taking bits and pieces of what I've said and making it fit what you want. That you keep on doing it when everything that has been said by all parties is till here for all to see is...well, odd.
Last time I'll say it but - re; the social retardation remark - if you're half the man you believe yourself to be and actually have any understanding of what you've actually said, then you'll understand that you said some stupid things, and you should really take them back. And no...I'm not telling you where they are or linking you to them, as that's akin to me telling you where your pants are...which is ironic if you look at it at a certain way.
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 15:39, truthteller wrote:
Ps. The magician bar video was half of a rather odd media project done by a friend. None of the videos I have were done by me. Just random things made by others.
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I'm hoping you didn't think that my comments on the videos were a slight, they were not. I really did enjoy them. But once again, your posts confuse. You have already spoken of why would pro magicians want to put videos of their bread and butter online for others to steal...and yet, you have done the same...but now...?, well...now, apparently you don't even sanction them? Really very odd. And that's before we even begin to Dance.
Anyway, I did enjoy them fella and as I have said to you before; I have the utmost respect for people that do this for a living and get up each day and go out and entertain people.
Good vibes to you.
Steph
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 6:59pm
Oh, and Brad, 'do you' have any information on better / good / worth reading resources on metal bending?
I was serious.
You'll know when I'm having a go at you...I'm quite open about it...ha.
Steph
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Decomposed
Eternal Order
Cannot See
10612 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 6:59pm
TT, name calling is not appropriate I do not think. This is magicians helping magicians. We can all share ideas without being judgemental.
Just saying.
Decomp
90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation!
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DougNicols
Special user
764 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:15pm
I purchased one, but I'm definitely not posting a review in this train wreck of a ****ing thread.
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:21pm
Had I used the term mental retardation or mentally retarded, I would agree with you. However, the word 'retardation' has valid meaning well beyond application to physical and psychological pathologies of which many suffer, the application of which is both inaccurate and pejorative. I chose the term social retardation intentionally and I stand by it. Retardation is a slowing of development and is not exclusively a term of medicine. The behaviors chosen reflect a an undeveloped, or under developed, understanding of social norms and behaviors. It is used entirely in it's meaning to slow, or to remain undeveloped. I hope that clarifies my position. (I am reminded of the dc official reprimanded for the use of the term niggardly - his attackers unaware that it had no racial connotation or denotation at all. Not all words are bad, even when they look it.)
Rabid, the videos are sanctioned but they do not reflect what would be considered the body of my work. I did not consider your comment a slight. Just offering you a little more context.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. So you do agree then that, from a magical perspective, walking around with forks in one's pockets is a bad idea - diminishing as it would the potential impact possible from a metal bending routine - yes?
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:24pm
Decomp, Of whom have I called names? I am merely describing a behavior/group of behaviors - behaviors which reflect a lack of development and thought; a retardation.
No name calling was intended, nor do I see cause to read it as such.
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Decomposed
Eternal Order
Cannot See
10612 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:26pm
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On 2011-08-03 19:15, DougNicols wrote:
I purchased one, but I'm definitely not posting a review in this train wreck of a ****ing thread.
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Ain't that the truth.
Decomp
90 seconds of pure laughs without a standing ovation!
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:30pm
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 19:15, DougNicols wrote:
I purchased one, but I'm definitely not posting a review in this train wreck of a ****ing thread.
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I would respectfully ask you to reconsider Doug, I think this thread needs as much real information as it can get.
Steph
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:31pm
If anyone feels as if I have Personally called them a ''name,' please say so and I will apologize.
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:44pm
Brad...no I do not agree..c'mon you know me better than that by now, by the postings in this thread alone.
I also do not consider your explanation of your reference to retardation sufficient to exonerate you from the the fact that it was offensive and, indeed, quite immature. I do - as much as you may feel otherwise - believe you to be a mature and knowledgable individual...therefore what you wrote cannot be explained away so glibly. As for the 'other' word you mentioned in your last post...well..again, I'm shocked. Just because some halfwit Washington official is unaware 'himself' that however 'innocent' his use of the that word my have been, that in fact the very use of of it 'was' racially unacceptable just goes to show how backward he - and in turn, anyone that defends him - actually is. Black people fought - and still fight - a hard struggle to distance themselves from (and in certain instances claim as their own) the derogatory remarks levelled against them over the years. Pretending that 'I didn't mean it that way' is a good enough argument is, well...ridiculous.
But let's not get into that as it's taking us even further away from the point of the thread: which is about a fork, that bends. On it's own.
I'm starting to get worried that I may have to spend $200 just to be allowed to voice an opinion on something so simple.
Once more, with feeling....any direction you could send me to learn more about metal bending, other than what I've already stated I own? It would be greatly appreciated
Steph
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wolfmaster
New user
53 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 7:45pm
I Hope you'll never have a retarded son Brad. You have ashamed me as a human being, and as a magician that makes part of the same community as you do. Does retarded people deserve to be classified as inferior people in a public forum? Should they be used as an offense? You think you have more rights than them?
Shame on you, really. With a few clicks and some good search engine optimization I can assure you one day some potential clients will be searching your name on google and find it for the worst reasons.
Don't forget to bring your real personality next time you perform for 1.200 people 
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toph
Regular user
Dock o' the Bay, California
162 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 8:31pm
Quote:
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On 2011-08-03 19:21, truthteller wrote:
Had I used the term mental retardation or mentally retarded, I would agree with you. However, the word 'retardation' has valid meaning well beyond application to physical and psychological pathologies of which many suffer, the application of which is both inaccurate and pejorative. I chose the term social retardation intentionally and I stand by it. Retardation is a slowing of development and is not exclusively a term of medicine. The behaviors chosen reflect a an undeveloped, or under developed, understanding of social norms and behaviors. It is used entirely in it's meaning to slow, or to remain undeveloped. I hope that clarifies my position. (I am reminded of the dc official reprimanded for the use of the term niggardly - his attackers unaware that it had no racial connotation or denotation at all. Not all words are bad, even when they look it.)
Rabid, the videos are sanctioned but they do not reflect what would be considered the body of my work. I did not consider your comment a slight. Just offering you a little more context.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. So you do agree then that, from a magical perspective, walking around with forks in one's pockets is a bad idea - diminishing as it would the potential impact possible from a metal bending routine - yes?
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No need to clarify your position, infact, I never even mentioned for you to do so. Yes, I am fully aware of its other meanings outside of medicine. What you continually fail to see is the big picture outside of your box.
I cant believe I need to spell out this concept to you as if you weree a child, but, a simple, "im sorry to have offended you with my remark" and move on wouldve sufficed.
Instead, you go on to explain the textbook definition of the word "retarded" outside of its medical term and stand by your statement proud as ever as if I was an idiot who just learned something new.
You have way too much pride, my friend. Im starting to feel bad for you, and your clients..
Earth calling out to Truthteller.
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 3, 2011 9:01pm
Rabid, niggardly means miserly. The dc official used it correctly. His detractors should have looked up the word before accusing him of saying something never said. (if I recall, the term is Nordic or Danish in origin and has not ever had any association or derivation related to people of any color.)
We should not blame others for own inept vocabularies. (topher, please note in the seminal post which spurned this nonsense, I used the phrase social retardation, not socially retarded. I chose it intentionally thinking intelligent readers would read what was written. At least one assumption was incorrect.)
But I am glad I have apologized for mistakenly claiming you felt it was possible for magicians to produce miracle feelings with forks pulled from their pocket when in fact it is your position that you feel magicians can produce miracle feelings with forks pulled from their pockets. So, now that we are on the same page (though it looks the same to me), donyou really believe that the impact of metal bending with ones own forks is equal to or greater than that done with borrowed forks? Do you really believe there is no difference? Based on what? And those fork pocketed magicians getting uri gellar reactions, the ones you claim to exist, who are they exactly?
Wolf, the phrase mentally retarded is now considered offensive. As far as I am aware, the term retardation to describe something undeveloped is still a perfectly viable word. Your phrase, referring to someone with a mental pathology is offensive to Many. As you are hurling insults and accusations, please quote me where I use the term retarded to describe any human being or psychological pathology. Please provide a quote where I refer to those with mental pathologies (your word: retarded) as inferior in any way. If you cannot, and you can't, you accusation borders on libel. You would be best served by apologizing for claiming I wrote things never written.
Learn to read
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 2:55am
Hey Brad.
I was aware what it meant. However the way the word sounds invites association and should therefore really be avoided...s'all I meant.
Errrr. .thanks for the inept vocabulary insult. I love you too.
Can you stop trying to put words in my mouth though please? It's getting ever so tiresome to keep reading you floundering over the same old point that I 'didn't' make. And still missing a glaring mistake from your own heated keyboard, namely that just because some one may choose to pocket a fork. does not necessarily mean they have to whip it out in front of an audience. Does it? But again, it's you who keeps saying all this so I'm not sure why you havent thought it through properly?
So, to the metal bending... can you offer me any direction?
Regards
Steph
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 6:14am
Actually, just to clear it all up as I know you'll want me to prove it anyways, here's what the oxford English Dictionary says about it, which is the same - as it happens - as the New Oxford American dictionary.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from niggard + -ly1.
usage: The word niggardly has no connection with the highly offensive term *****, but because of the similarity of sound and its negative meaning of ‘mean, ungenerous’ many people are uncomfortable with using it for fear of causing offence, and in the US it is now widely avoided.
Now then, Doug...any chance of a little itsy bitsy review to go along with comedy's thoughts on it?
Steph
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 8:02am
So, pulling forks out of ones pocket WOULD negatively affect the potential impact of a metal bending routine, as compared to -say- using items found and already in use on site.
Just trying to understand your stance. Please let me know! Thanks
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 8:28am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....you, my friend...are priceless.
Okay, I'll play:
I agree with you, that if I (for instance) were to walk up to a group of people and pull a fork from my pocket and say something along the lines of, "Hey you guys n' girls, check this out...just a fork I happen to have about my person, now watch....", then that would not be as good a performance, nor as memorable, nor have as much impact as if I was to walk up to a table and ask to borrow someones fork and make it bend. But you already know that Brad. You already know that was not what we've been discussing (well, 'you' have, but you've pretty much been having a discussion on your own, which in itself is very bizarre) and you already know that was not what I mean't by my original reply to your seminal post of social retardation, whether someone can put cutlery in their pocket without it bending, kids at summer camp, people with mental problems, thievery or desperate magicians.
You do realise that our discussions could be so much easier and more pleasant if you didn't avoid everything requested of you, don't you? I'm even testing you out...I have the route I think your next reply will take written down on my notepad here by my computer...i do hope you don't disappoint.
So, on a more mature note and hopefully beneficial to both parties..do you have any advice for me on good resources for metal bending? Like I said, I only have some stuff from Richard Osterlind, which I like very much. But one can never have too much information on something such as this
Steph
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truthteller
Inner circle
2589 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 9:35am
I think the sheils effect should be read. It's not about how to secretly bend metal, but gives great insight into making such acts miraculous. It is definitely influenced by a study of gellers success, and elements have worked for other magicians such as Blaine.
Really, metal bending is about bending the metal when people aren't looking. Learning a choreographed sequence of moves makes for a clever trick, but to convince people that you can really do this stuff - it has to be more fluid. While several texts have been written on mis/direction, one must really do this under fire to get it down. Having said that, Tamariz in his current talk has an interesting theory on managing memory, wonder's work of course should be studied. Misdirection should be invisible, felt but not seen. Some works on Misdirection are too magic-ey, putting the technique on display.
As to metal bending techniques, in my mind one just must find things they like. None of it matters if it registers to the audience as a 'move'. There are Many techniques for bends out there, I tend to evaluate them on whether or not I can execute them 'in shadow.' too Many magicians want to put the move on display - and some moves are designed for that. It's like telling your audience to stare at your hands while doing a pass. Stupid idea. Sure, I get it, we want credit for our invisible skill - but this is an example of the same undeveloped thinking spoken of earlier
So, just bend the fork - how doesn't matter. When, does
Finally, there are some very clever optical techniques one can employ to make it appear as if the metal is bending visibly. It is sometimes hard to 'see' how good these look either in print or when knowing what you are watching.
Ps. I'm glad you agree with me that working metal bending from one's pockets with ones own forks is a terrible idea and an example of bad magical judgement. Why use a rolls Royce to haul gravel, yes?
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Rabid
Loyal user
297 Posts
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Posted: Aug 4, 2011 9:48am
One of the things that attracted me to Osterlinds Mind Mysteries series, was a snippet I saw of him bending a handful of forks (he had them on the table I believe, but of course, this was for an L&L audience). Very impressive, all of them curling round from his fist...it was very impressive to see.
In fact the entire set of DVD's is really good. I go back to them regularly as they're just so entertaining and an awful lot of the material and ideas are really wonderful.
Thanks for the references.
Back to work for me.
Steph
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