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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 22, 2011 6:19pm
I've noticed a few posts on here about restaurant magic and how we speculate what is going through our client's minds. So...I thought...
If I created a video of restaurant general managers/owners answering questions then
1. Would you want to watch it?
2. And what questions would you want answered?
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themagicguy
Loyal user
Australia
214 Posts
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Posted: Oct 22, 2011 7:17pm
Absolutely! This is a great idea.
I have no idea what questions to ask, but I would be very interested to watch. Although I would much prefer the manager/owner to have never had a magician at there establishment interviewed.
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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 22, 2011 8:00pm
Quote:
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On 2011-10-22 19:17, themagicguy wrote:
I would much prefer the manager/owner to have never had a magician at there establishment interviewed.
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Hmm that would be interesting.
Maybe I'll just approach a random GM of a restaurant 
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 10:55pm
Hmm...nobody wants to know what general managers think of restaurant magicians?
Marketing Tips For Magicians:
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Thinking Like An Entrepreneur, Not a Magician
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slyhand
Inner circle
Good ole Virginia
1746 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 6:55am
One that has a magician working for him or one that does not?
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.
Alec
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Leland
Inner circle
St Louis
1091 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 7:26am
What will it take for me to get hired on?
Of course maybe breaking that questions down would be better.
What do you look for in a restaurant entertainer?
Life of Magic!
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Safirio
New user
13 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 9:59am
Of course, that would be highly interesting !
Is the idea to record an actual GM ? If so, I'm interested 
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BrianMillerMagic
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
1818 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 10:48am
I'd like to have the following question answered:
Q: Why have they taken time out of their busy schedule to answer questions you bring from a magic forum?
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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 11:16am
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 06:55, slyhand wrote:
One that has a magician working for him or one that does not?
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One that does not....but they know me because of private gigs and I used to perform at the restaurants while marketing for the public show I did.
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 09:59, Safirio wrote:
Of course, that would be highly interesting !
Is the idea to record an actual GM ? If so, I'm interested
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Yes...I'll be video recording a GM and asking him questions.
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 10:48, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
I'd like to have the following question answered:
Q: Why have they taken time out of their busy schedule to answer questions you bring from a magic forum?
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Because I've built up a good relationship with them.
Marketing Tips For Magicians:
http://www.steadyflowgigs.com
Thinking Like An Entrepreneur, Not a Magician
http://www.thebusinessmentality.com
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davidpaul$
Inner circle
Pittsburgh, Pa
1969 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 12:33pm
In my experience "GM's" have to be educated, so asking them questions regarding a field ( magical entertainment) they have no idea about is a moot point. After they have experienced a "good" magical entertainer working in their restaurant then I'm sure they will have allot to say....I just recently had a lengthy conversation with a GM and an assistant manager after my performance time and their focus was on how much the patrons were entertained and happy. The other focus was problems in the kitchen and longer than expected wait times. The entertainment help smooth over a possible upset customer.........That was their main concerns............Keeping the customer happy and experiencing something most restaurants don't offer.
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 1:52pm
David, I'm sure you know, the key to all marketing is to get into the mind of the prospect.
As magicians, we can say that it is our job to keep the customer happy and experience something that most restaurant's don't offer. But will that get the gig? If you walked into a restaurant and talked to a GM that has no experience with table-side entertainment and told him that you will keep customers happy and provide a new experience then would he automatically hire you? Nope
It might be true that we provide a great experience...but the general manager only knows that "after" they hire us.
To sell them, you have to know what is going on in their head.
So ask questions like, "If a magician approaches you, then how would you want him to approach you? What would he have to say that would convince you that having entertainment would be good for the restaurant? Would you want a free night?" etc would be more useful than asking a question like "Do you think the magician makes customers happy?" They're going to say yes because it happened after the fact and they know the magician makes the customer happy.
I would like to give everyone a chance to get into the mind of a GM...only if you want to
Marketing Tips For Magicians:
http://www.steadyflowgigs.com
Thinking Like An Entrepreneur, Not a Magician
http://www.thebusinessmentality.com
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Sam Sandler
Inner circle
2058 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 3:48pm
As a former restaurant manager and now magician I can say that make sure you don't come in during lunch or dinner times
what would I want to hear from them what questions to ask
all the standard questions we have been asking for years
I don't think I understand the concept here.
if you asking how to pitch a show to a manager or owner of restaurant or how to get booked at the place to do table side magic you got this back words
its not asking them what they would want a magician to ask its how and what a magician SHOULD ask. this is marketing 101
first off if the manager is not looking for a magician he would care less about taking time out of his already hectic day. and we as magicians need to convince them that they need us.
magicians are NOT the most important thing in the restaurant ( we like to think we are but were not) the FOOD is #1
we are not there to increase the bottom line we are there to create a mood to create a fell good moment in hopes of getting them to come back more often on the nights your there.
I believe christopher Lyle wrote a long post some where about getting booked at a restaurant I suggest you read it as I think it will answer all your questions and maybe even give you questions to ask if indeed you are going to pursue this.
personally I think you should be asking a marketing professional(who knows both biz - magic and food) questions on how to get booked at a restaurant now that's a worthy video. or maybe get Michael Close to offer some ideas. but then again I don't see Michael going into chi chi's and pitching his magic LOL
just my thoughts
sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 7:10pm
I'm saying...
I will be interviewing a General Manager of a restaurant. What questions do you want to ask him?
Marketing Tips For Magicians:
http://www.steadyflowgigs.com
Thinking Like An Entrepreneur, Not a Magician
http://www.thebusinessmentality.com
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BrianMillerMagic
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
1818 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 8:09pm
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 15:48, Sam Sandler wrote:maybe get Michael Close to offer some ideas. but then again I don't see Michael going into chi chi's and pitching his magic LOL
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Now THAT I would like to see. That's a video that if not useful, would at least be entertaining.
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Sam Sandler
Inner circle
2058 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 8:59pm
Again I say ok so your interviewing one general manager
does he understand the art of magic
does he have a desire to hire an magician
does he understand the use of having one there
what kind of info could he possibly offer I am confused.
its not like he is some expert on restaurants. for that matter what kind of restaurant is he a GM for. McDonalds or the Chart house or other up scale restaurant
see my point. sure maybe some of us will watch it but I'm asking what qualifies this guy to be offering any advice
or
is this just your own experiment and asking a GM some questions and see his answers in that case ok
ask him
why would you hire a magician
what kind of pay do you expect to give the magician
follow up- or do you expect them to work for TIPs
will you comp a meal each night they are there
will you promote the magician via
table tent cards,
poster on the door
waiters and waitresses announcing to the tables that the magician is here tonight would you like him to visit your table
can he have biz cards in display near the entrace/exit that is there all the time (maintained by the magician) meaning he will fill it when empty.
final question-- how do you see a magician benefitting your establishment?
sam
oh and make sure you have included closed caption for me so that I can watch it! thanks
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
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Close.Up.Dave
Inner circle
Behind you!
2739 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 9:26pm
I think if one really wants to know what a GM wants, use the many resources available to land a gig and then GET EXPERIENCE. Or, go work in a restaurant as a server and see it all first hand. As Sam said, a restaurant GM knows nothing about the magic business; he knows about the restaurant business. You don't need to hear from a magician what a GM wants. You can find that out on your own. You SHOULD find it out on your own if you truly want to get the work.
These forums have a lot of great threads that give you the basic tools you need. After that, the only other place to go is get off your butt and do it.
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davidpaul$
Inner circle
Pittsburgh, Pa
1969 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 9:54pm
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 13:52, Benji Bruce wrote:
David, I'm sure you know, the key to all marketing is to get into the mind of the prospect.
As magicians, we can say that it is our job to keep the customer happy and experience something that most restaurant's don't offer. But will that get the gig? If you walked into a restaurant and talked to a GM that has no experience with table-side entertainment and told him that you will keep customers happy and provide a new experience then would he automatically hire you? Nope
It might be true that we provide a great experience...but the general manager only knows that "after" they hire us.
To sell them, you have to know what is going on in their head.
So ask questions like, "If a magician approaches you, then how would you want him to approach you? What would he have to say that would convince you that having entertainment would be good for the restaurant? Would you want a free night?" etc would be more useful than asking a question like "Do you think the magician makes customers happy?" They're going to say yes because it happened after the fact and they know the magician makes the customer happy.
I would like to give everyone a chance to get into the mind of a GM...only if you want to
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Again...as was mentioned, the GM hasn't a clue if he has never experienced a strolling/table hopping( whatever you want to call us) magician. I've called on enough restaurants and most Gm's/owners have never experienced this type of entertainment. How could they possibly answer your questions. I'm into my tenth year working weekly in several places. Each restaurant never heard of the concept when I solicited them but they were willing to give me a try after discussing the benefits I presented......Why am I still working? Because the patrons have fun, it's unique entertainment, it helps tremendously with problems in the kitchen,( a very common problem )and people often come back with other family members or friends. GM's and owners have told me they love to watch the expression on people's faces. That means happy customers and that means I keep my job. (knock on wood)
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
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Frank Starsini
Eternal Order
Northern California
12226 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 10:57pm
Benji,
If you don't mind me saying so....
From my perspective, your approaches are usually a bit juvenile and not well thought-out.
This is another one of those.
You fancy yourself a magical and marketing guru but I'm not sure who's really buying that here.
Why not just join in the fun rather than try to set yourself apart with your marketing mumbo-jumbo.
I'm sure you have great experiences to share.. just skip the part where you think you're our muse/mentor/magical savior.
I got enough of that when I used to sit in corporate meetings, wasting time, listening to those that believed their own BS and spoke lots of it.
So, one might be able to get away with it on a blog because they're the only one writing. But here... people will call someone on their B.S. pretty quickly.
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BrianMillerMagic
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
1818 Posts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2011 11:04pm
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -Isaac Asimov
I agree with Frank. Come on Benji, enough's enough. You can keep pretending you don't care that no one in the magic world is taking your seriously, but if you stopped right now and went, "Just kidding guys!" and gave it up, within a couple weeks no one would care about all this stuff and you could just be a part of our great community.
Seriously.
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slyhand
Inner circle
Good ole Virginia
1746 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 7:15am
Quote:
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On 2011-10-24 20:59, Sam Sandler wrote:
does he understand the art of magic
does he have a desire to hire an magician
does he understand the use of having one there
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I don't see what is so wrong with Benji giving it a try. What harm is it going to do?
He is going to interview one dude. Why being so hard on the guy?
Oh, and try the three questions above.
Good luck Benji.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.
Alec
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Sam Sandler
Inner circle
2058 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 9:41am
Nothing wrong with Benji asking the questions its the fact that I think he thinks this is some great new fantastic marketing ploy.
asking one general manager some questions is good for himself but to pose it as what would magicians what to hear from him has no real releavance as
this guy is not in our market area and well there are just a lot of reasons but again I don't have a problem with him asking thus the reason I gave some questions to ask.
good luck Benji and please let us know what kind of restaurant it is
sam
ps as I mentioned earlier I was in the restaurant biz for 14 years and now full time magician for the past 15 years and have worked many many retuarants and although my experience was both in quick service and full service I understand the ins and outs of the restaurant biz from many angles so feel free to ask me any questions you want Benji or any one else for that matter.
as well as there are some really good threads on the Café that cover lots of this topic
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
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Benji Bruce
Special user
902 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 10:47am
Frank I don't claim to be a marketing guru. I've performed in restaurants since I was 13 years old and became a full time performer from it (performing 6 nights a week and performing for 10 years)...so I never had another job in my life. Then I switched to performing in the corporate world.
After 10 years of restaurants gigs, I've learned sooooo much its not even funny ...I'm simply showing others what I've done with restaurant gigs and what I do to book corporate gigs (with live recordings of conversations and the gigs).
If you don't want to listen to it then don't. I'm giving everyone specific techniques I've used for restaurant gigs and corporate gigs. People who are interested in the business side of performing can watch and those who aren't (cough cough Frank) can go eat a cookie.
Some people think that you have to be old to be experienced. Age doesn't bring experience. "Doing" brings experience.
I can honestly say that I perform for a living...and have been my entire life. I must be doing something right
Marketing Tips For Magicians:
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Sam Sandler
Inner circle
2058 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 1:08pm
Benji yes doing does bring experience and its is a matter of how long you have been doing. if you have been doing it as long as you say then yes you have lots of experience. why not offer that instead of one GM that does not have experience.
just curious
and its great that you can do what you love being a magician. good for you.
by they way are you trying to make other magicians fat. LOL in another thread we are told to eat a cup cake and in this thread a cookie. whats with all the eating sweets!
sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
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Close.Up.Dave
Inner circle
Behind you!
2739 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 2:57pm
I've been doing magic in restaurants for the exact same amount of time, starting at the same age. I honestly don't think I would know what I know because some other magician told it to me. "Doing" is a better teacher than any other magician could ever be. No one in life is ever done learning.
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Sam Sandler
Inner circle
2058 Posts
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Posted: Oct 25, 2011 4:35pm
Dave agreed 100% what I am saying is Benji should have more valuable lessons learned then anything this GM could offer there fore share some of that advice with others.
when I lecture I share experiences and tricks of the trade - things that I have learned over the years. there are all levels of magicians out there and we can learn from each other
yes its true your never done learning! I am still learning and looking forward to continue to learn new stuff and new ideas all the time from those that have gone on before me.
sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
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Christopher Lyle
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5226 Posts
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Posted: Oct 26, 2011 12:49pm
Here's the problem that I think many have with you Benji...
The way you come across to those of us here who are "in the know", is like some guy who just discovered plutonium and wants to sell it to all of us. Let me put to you this way. If you take a great Steak Dinner and serve it on the lid of a garbage can, it won't be appealing and nobody would eat it. It's a great dinner, but the way it was presented makes it unappealing. This is how you come across to many of us on here. You very well could have some great ideas but how you present them to this forum make you look like a joke.
I'm not saying this to be mean, just telling you how it is...
You spend quite a bit of time tooting your own horn to try and boost your experience up to give yourself Guru status. Nobody cares about that man. Those who have "done" don't need to tell people that hey have done b/c if they did it right, then people already "know" about it.
Just sayin...
Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
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General_Magician
Elite user
United States
464 Posts
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Posted: Oct 26, 2011 10:31pm
I like to post here because a lot of the magicians have suggested some really awesome books to read and a few great tricks. Plus, being a rookie pro, I can ask a few questions to get some insights into how some of the more veteran pros see things. That being said, I try to give back to the forum when I can. To me, I think it's just a great idea to come here and have fun talking about magic. That's what I really love about this forum, is just coming here to shoot the breeze and talk about magic or performing. I have found it's better to just talk about magic, performing and if you have some questions about the magic business, the vets will usually be happy to answer those questions and offer some of their insights and experience. I think by viewing the forum as a resource to learn from and also give back to the forum by sharing some of your experiences in a way that does not come across the wrong way to others, the experience here becomes awesome. It's a great place for magicians to post and a great resource to learn from.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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steve j
Special user
Long Island, New York
559 Posts
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Posted: Oct 27, 2011 2:14am
I believe that in regards to performing for a business on a regular basis, no matter what the business may be, you not only have to know your magic but the business itself. Before I tried to get into restaurants I worked for one for a bit to understand how things ran (i.e. time before the server met the table for the first time, time to drinks, time to order/receive food). As mentioned before the last concern on the mind of the GM is the actual magic but how it will impact his business, and unfortunately he will always think of a few negative things and without experience or knowledge of his world you won't be up to the task of dissuading him from his train of thought. If you have the knowledge about the business you are getting into then you know the problems that can come of throwing a performer into the equation, thus being able to create the solution before ever going into the meeting with the GM. Clearly there are a lot of individuals here posting on this topic, many have a lot of knowledge on this topic and I'm sure that any of them would be able provide advice to those who ask for it.
This stands for me as well, however I just wanted to add my 2 cents while there was still room for it. Always know everything about what you are getting into before you get into it. That has been my motto and it has served me well, take it for what you will.
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Yehoshua
New user
Turnersville, NJ
75 Posts
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Posted: Oct 27, 2011 8:10am
I'm not really sure where all these attacks on Benji are coming from O_O Honestly, I personally believe that asking questions of a GM in regards to how THEY view things is a GREAT idea! You all keep mentioning that "they know nothing of magic". They don't have to! That's OUR job! They know everything about their own business though! We aren't asking the GMs to become magicians, we're asking to let us magicians become restaurant workers! To that end, this little endevour of Benji's is tremendously useful! IF you have enough experience in the field already, then offer a question or two, or just some sage advice, and let it be. He isn't putting this out there for those of you that already know it, duh!  It is just to help those who are new to the field with a little insider info to help give 'em some confidence and know how. I mean, isn't it better for me to propose my first restaurant gig to a GM with a few tips to back me rather than just "going and doing it" blindly? Doing is the best way to learn. But doing without any knowhow is sometimes just as bad as jumping from a cliff to learn...you can't fly. Know what I mean? Just my two cents. *shrugs*
And Benji, I'd ask about tips vs steady pay as well. I mean, I suppose type of venue matters, but ultimately, I'm interested in the thinking process of the professional restauranteur. Thanks!
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patrick flanagan
Special user
lisle, illinois
927 Posts
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Posted: Oct 27, 2011 12:19pm
In theory, this is a very good idea. Trying to understand the thought process of the people we are trying to "sell" to, can only help to lead to a successful outcome. However, the GM's that Benji interviews will probably have little relevance to most of the people here looking for work.
Too many variables involved. The geographics, demographics, economic landscape in the areas where Benji interviews probably will have zero in common to anyone else's situation.
Like I said....good theory but, in my opinion, limited benefit.
I would suggest to those interested in landing a restaurant or bar gig on a regular basis, go talk to some of the owners/managers in your specific area. Ask them specifically what factors or approaches would sway them to consider hiring a strolling entertainer. Ask them how they perceive the benefits of having an entertainer on staff. Ask them what goals they may have for an entertainer....would they expect that person to put "butts in the chairs?"....would they expect a financial return on their "investment"?...do they see an entertainer as a revenue stream or as an added value of ambiance.
Anyhow, Benji, you do seem to have some good topics and ideas. I will say though that most of what you type is read by me with a "ggrrrr" attitude. You might be the nicest, humblest guy in the world, but (and this goes back to the first time I'd seen you post....and continues)....you come off insincere and egotystical. I know it's tough, through written words, to capture the exact attitude and emotion of the writer. I'm just saying, that's how it comes across to me. I'm not trying to insult you...this is strictly constructive. I don't know you personally, so I really have no opinion of you as a person....only what I feel when I read your posts.
patrick
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Yehoshua
New user
Turnersville, NJ
75 Posts
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Posted: Oct 27, 2011 12:27pm
Meh, at least that was a nicer way of stating your opinion. Thank you for your civility. As for Benji's attempt being relevant or not, I say WHAT THE HECK!? Go for it! >:D Every little bit helps. I think ultimately, you've both got good ideas. But then, isn't that the point of the Café? We ALL have something to contribute? If it were just one person telling us their ideas, and not the entire community contributing, then it would be a blog, not a forum ;D
Anywhos, wish ya the best with your projects, Benji!
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