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Stperformer
Regular user
145 Posts
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Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:16pm
So I'm sitting here in a brand new Starbucks drinking my first Grande Latte (it looks like you Americans can make a good cup of coffee afterall LOL) and having a friendly heated debate with a few other buskers about pitch ethics (while on my laptop-multitasking).
You see I just chatised one of my fellow performers for blabing on another internet site (P.NET) of the where-abouts of a really good pitch. I stated that one of my favourite pitches was ruined years ago when some idiot broadcasted it's location and how great it was over the net. By the end of the year, a pitch I had basically to myself, was ruined, being over run.
He thinks I'm self-serving and if performers want to survive as a force we must stick together. Sharing info is benefical to everyone. I say let them find there own spots. He says I'm anti-social.
They're 6 of us and we're split down the middle of this right now,
So the question is: Should we post on the internet the location of good pitches or will this info eventually ruin all the better pitches around.??????
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JoeJoe
Inner circle
Myrtle Beach
1514 Posts
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Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:33pm
Pitches aren't "found" ... they are "created". Was anybody working in front of the Walter Scott statue before Jeff Sheridan created that pitch? I don't know ... but I'm thinking no. He found that pitch, and he made it his.
If you take the time to find a spot and turn it into a pitch, then why should you give it away? Nonsense! Tell them to do their own footwork. Does Steve Jobs give you the blue prints to make your own iPhone? Of course not!
-JoeJoe
One of the hottest new releases of the year - Steve Fearson Presents the Amazing JoeJoe's Web Spinner!!!
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Surgei
New user
11 Posts
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Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:34pm
It cycles. Better pitches eventually get found out by a**h*les. They show up, ruin the pitch, claim they'll sue, and move on with their tails between their legs. In my opinion, share good pitches with good street performers. Notice I did not say share good pitches with good friends. A great friend could be a great performer in a school gymnasium but **** for the street. See the above example.
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The Great Zoobini
Veteran user
Boulder, Colorado
380 Posts
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Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:17pm
I believe the busker is supposed to be pro-active in their pitch-creating. It's the sad case that goes to "their" pitch only to find others performing there. They've put all their eggs into one basket.
I've created several pitches only to see someone else performing there within a week. Luckily, I had created even more pitches instead of sulking. I couldn't sulk. I had to eat. Most here can shrug it off because of their day job.
To me, it doesn't matter if the pitch is broadcast or not since I believe you're supposed to be creating new ones all the time.
Meet you in Busker Alley 
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Eric Evans
Elite user
Rio Grande
445 Posts
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Posted: Feb 7, 2012 6:32pm
I side with those who would rather keep the good pitches off of the internet, and only to share them with tried and true performers, friends.
Too many great pitches have been burnt out by extortionists; hustlers that seem to have only empty tip buckets where their hearts might otherwise be.
http://sidewalkperformers.freeforums.org
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Ekuth
Inner circle
1111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 7, 2012 11:11pm
Keep them off the net. If you do the footwork and go through the hoops with the local authorities to secure your pitch, keep it to yourself- or only those you trust. They're hard enough to find nowadays.
"Magic is found neither in the mind, nor the eye; but in the heart."
http://www.christophe-magic.webs.com
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Stperformer
Regular user
145 Posts
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Posted: Feb 7, 2012 11:37pm
Well, it seems most of you seem to have similar views as myself  das gefällt mir
It's kinda a catch 22. It has helped me immensely, information I've gotten off the net about certain pitches. I've benefited by info and posts about certain locations shared by others. On the other hand I have a pitch which I get to on occasion that has remain undiscovered. I regard it as probably one of the best (if not thee best) pitches in the world. Yet, other than a few organ grinders...it remains untapped. I cringe at the day, and it will happen, that someone else clicks in.....and lets the rest of the world know. I guarantee that'll be the end of it. In the meantime I've got it all to myself, greedy bugger I am, LOL
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Brent McLeod
Inner circle
New Zealand
1556 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 1:18am
I had a great pitch here in the main CBD that was
away from the 3 best sites in town & used it wll for 3 summers.
As mentioned a few others showed up -not a proper circle act type acts
but people who had seen the crowds I had and was a regular fixture every sat until dark.
It was near a busy theatre & the show crowds were fabulous tippers.
I stopped when kids with card tricks showed up to use the area
I had another good pitch in 1 of the suburbs now but-Ill keep it to myself for now,
but Im concentrating more on Indoor shows so cant make the same outdoor venues as I was doing!!
Keep the info but in limited pitches a good show will work well & we have to share at times....
Cheers
http://www.bandsforhire.co.nz/brent_mcleod.htm
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EVILDAN
Special user
660 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 9:27am
We're very protective of our pitches. We only tell close friends...some are fellow buskers, some aren't.
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JoeJoe
Inner circle
Myrtle Beach
1514 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 10:29am
So is there anyone here in opposition? Or is this pretty much unanimous?
-JoeJoe
One of the hottest new releases of the year - Steve Fearson Presents the Amazing JoeJoe's Web Spinner!!!
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Chance
Inner circle
1386 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 11:42am
Quote:
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On 2012-02-08 10:29, JoeJoe wrote:
So is there anyone here in opposition? Or is this pretty much unanimous?
-JoeJoe
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The OP says that 6 people were split 50/50. So no, I would say not.
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JoeJoe
Inner circle
Myrtle Beach
1514 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 1:43pm
I repeat ... is there anyone HERE in opposition?
-JoeJoe
One of the hottest new releases of the year - Steve Fearson Presents the Amazing JoeJoe's Web Spinner!!!
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Eduardo
Veteran user
302 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 3:20pm
The ponies deserve a "chanze"... give them the pitches!!!!
http://www.eduardofernandes.com
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Ekuth
Inner circle
1111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 3:39pm
I'm not. Let them beat the streets and find their own. It's part of the experience and makes it feel much more worthwhile than just having it handed to you or riding someone else's coattails.
"Magic is found neither in the mind, nor the eye; but in the heart."
http://www.christophe-magic.webs.com
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Stperformer
Regular user
145 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 4:03pm
Interestingly in the group I was with originally discussing this, the 3 that thought it was fine posting pitches on the net were in their early to mid 20's....while us other 3 were all over 30, a couple of us well over.
Looking at the lot here I think pretty well all of us are over 30, even 40.....though some of us might not admit LOL
There was a couple google maps with busking locations all over the world that people could add onto but they seemed to have disappeared (or I just can't find 'em anymore)
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Eric Evans
Elite user
Rio Grande
445 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 5:03pm
Yeah, that fits. Today the younger generations feel as though all information should be free to all for the taking. As an example, a couple of years ago I did a search on my coin dvd only to find it on a couple of file-sharing websites. At that time there were over 50,000 downloads of my dvd. Since that time the websites seem to have eliminated counters so it is nigh impossible to tell how many additional downloads have accrued. Not to mention all the websites that had my dvd that I didn't check.
Please understand that I'm not complaining about the status quo, nor potential money lost. I am noting however, that the situation as it exists provides little incentive for me to put anymore information out whatsoever. It's taken me decades of work to accumulate and create the material I have to share it with everyone who has merely a high speed internet connection.
I am amused with those people who say that pitches ought to be shared freely. They either haven't been around long enough to get over run, or know little worth sharing.
Either way, the status quo doesn't bode well for the future of any pursuit.
http://sidewalkperformers.freeforums.org
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Stperformer
Regular user
145 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 5:41pm
Holy !@#$! 50,000 downloads IS a lot lost revenue that belongs to you.
Anyways, at least they didn't get the 2 cool stainless steal coins that came with it.
Funny thing is I have a couple beautiful jumbo Euro coins. Cost me a small fortune. However I never used them on the street cause I hated throwing them down on the ground. Instead I use the one's that came with your DVD (yes I bought it ) and I actually like them a heck of a lot better because they're thinner and with the milled edges, tenkai so friggin nice. My Euros now sit in my drawer.
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Eric Evans
Elite user
Rio Grande
445 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 7:33pm
Well I thank you for your support
Again, I am not crying over spilt milk but rather citing an example of why you wont see additional dvd's from me personally in spite of the fact that I've got a LOT of material that is easy to perform and would add to the body of work out there that other performers could benefit from. There's just no incentive to do so.
If you do a search on "eric evans coin manipulation" you will find a plethora of file sharing websites that have my dvd. Yet there isn't a store one that stocks it.
The same mentality that gives rise to websites such as Torrentz and Filestube also wants to know about pitches that other people have discovered. That's a fact, an ugly one but nevertheless a fact.
I may release a few products in the future, but never again will I put the work into a dvd. And never will I tell anyone, other than those I know that can keep the info tight, about a good pitch. They don't deserve the information and they certainly haven't earned it.
http://sidewalkperformers.freeforums.org
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Surgei
New user
11 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 7:46pm
Great teachers will only take great people to be their students. Being a great person means knowing how much of what to share with whom.
As much as Eric will protect his pitches with silence, he will freely invite his students. He chooses his students based on their moral fiber. As a result, he has few. Those he has are greats in the business, George Gilbert, Kris Bentz, Jimmy Talksalot.
I wish I had been a magician when I lived with him...
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Eric Evans
Elite user
Rio Grande
445 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 8:57pm
Thanks for the very fine compliment Surgei, whether I am worthy of it or not is certainly a matter of debate, just ask Bobby, Kosmo, Chance or better yet, Gazzo 
I didn't mean to hijack this thread but it is representative of a mindset that has always been prevalent, only moreso these days.
Speaking of Gazzo, I was just talking with a good friend yesterday about him. I told my friend that Gazzo probably knows more about working a large crowd than anyone else alive. Do you think he would or will post his hard earned knowledge on the internet for all to see? For what? Fame? Recognition from his peers? I know he won't. He's one of the most generous, kind fellas I know, but he's no fool when it comes to the business side of his Art.
I know it probably sounds like I am bitter and resentful. All I can say is that I, myself, am not incredibly foolish (a little bit yes) and if you give something away for nothing, the vast majority will think that's all it's worth.
http://sidewalkperformers.freeforums.org
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Devious
Inner circle
I Still Have NOT Been Paid For My
1736 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 9:21pm
Quote:
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On 2012-02-08 19:33, Eric Evans wrote:
If you do a search on "eric evans coin manipulation" you will find a plethora of file sharing websites that have my dvd. Yet there isn't a store one that stocks it.
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I'm sorry Mr. Evans, but www.3generationsofmagic.com in San Diego,
has both your books and jumbo coin manipulation dvds.
Devious Deceptions
Chavez School of Magic Student Head Shot
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Eric Evans
Elite user
Rio Grande
445 Posts
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Posted: Feb 8, 2012 9:58pm
Hi Devious, you ol' fact checker you
So there is one after all
I'm certainly not unique in this regard; many, many dvd's are uploaded everyday. And the artists lose out on the money they are due for their work as a result. To what end? So the consumer can get one by the "evil corporations"?
Oh wait, their creative artists, not faceless big business entities. Just real people trying to make a living from their creations.
Just the other day, someone here was trying to get members to share some music files with him. I guess the 30 bucks that he would've spent on itunes for the 30 songs was too much for his pocket book. The dead artists families didn't really deserve the royalties after all.
Silly me, I thought everyone was entitled to rewards they earned.
Funny thing is, I've seen that same fellow get upset if someone so much as took his picture without tossing a buck in his bucket.
http://sidewalkperformers.freeforums.org
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Eduardo
Veteran user
302 Posts
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Posted: Feb 9, 2012 7:59am
Quote:
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On 2012-02-08 15:20, Eduardo wrote:
The ponies deserve a "chanze"... give them the pitches!!!!
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Of course this was a joke... DO NOT GIVE THE PITCHES TO THE PONIES... I repeat, DO NOT GIVE THE PITCHES TO THE PONIES...
http://www.eduardofernandes.com
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Mario Morris
Inner circle
Mario Morris
1691 Posts
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Posted: Feb 9, 2012 11:51am
I was plugging you book just the other day Eric, it is a fine Gem!
I largly agree with what has been said with slight tweek.
The way I see it weather you created it or not it aint yours to keep!
It belongs to the people, its the street!
Now the wise one will keep their mouth shut for as long as possible AGREED but it aint yours to keep its the street.
For a start of any city that gets wise will put out invertation, inviting buskers to busk on their streets.
that's being happening all over Europe, little towns big citys, thinking these buskers are good for our streets lets invite them!
Lets face it times have changed, I have worked towns that have even payed me to come but less than ten year ago use to shut me down for coming!
That comes down to educating citys, with that change comes.
As soon as you think it is yours to keep then you going down a dead end.
Of pitch fights, abuse, bullying and so on and just as you achieve scaring the crap out of one, the next one will role up and you have to start all over again.
Before you know it local authority will step in! who wants a pen pusher telling them what to do.
Are we forgetting one thing, its the street, we are street performers not Landlords!
Nope, enjoy it while it last, As Cellini said, no one invited you their any way,
First come first served if you snoze you lose!
You have to be comitted to comunication, Pushing, shoving, is for bullies and long term you will lose!
If you role up into a town, you will want to perform and who above is going to alow somone to say you cant?
In the mean time if you have found a pitch keep you trap shut and when the sun shines enjoy a blessing!
PS Fathats to all of you!
www.schoolofbusking.com
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