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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 1:45am
Ok all you wiser and more experienced magicians! Help me complete my new years resolution!
"I resolve to learn the cups and balls by the end of the year"
Shouldn't be that hard right?
So about 5 years ago I bought a cups and balls set and the salesman says "get these! one of the cups is a chop cup, it's a great deal!" So I go for it. It turns out this is a harder trick than I was prepared to take on. handling the chop cup was harder than I thought, can't make the ball drop without it looking obvious PLUS about 20% of the time the ball would bounce up and engage again. My other problem is I feel like the balls are too big for the cups. can barely fit two in teh bottom and have them stay loose and all three would be a nightmare. They all came as a set but I'm suspicious I got taken. Finally, I don't have like a close up mat. Any recommendations on substitutes or should I just invest in a mat?
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Dynamike
Eternal Order
20609 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 1:51am
Start off with Michael Ammar's Cups and Balls DVD.
Dynamike
Oakland County Magician Macomb County Magician Wayne County Magician Detroit Magician Detroit Clown
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Sir Richard
Special user
642 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 7:21am
Quote:
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On 2012-02-23 01:51, Dynamike wrote:
Start off with Michael Ammar's Cups and Balls DVD.
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Both volumes. Mats are a nessesity, buy a good quality one as soon as possible. Do one of the following: 1.) find a substitute for the balls, like pom-poms; 2.) Buy smaller balls; 3.) Buy a decent set of cups; stay away from the "cheapos! I, too, used to have a "combo" set, but never used the combo cup. I've since bought a great set from Tom Franks, but there's also RNT II that have decent sets that won't cost you an arm or a leg!
Sir Richard.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
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tm613
Regular user
Phila, PA
115 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 8:55am
Just becuase you have a combo set doesn't mean you need to use it as one...replace the chopped ball with a normal one....probably need to get a whole new set of 4 smaller balls as stated by Sir Richard
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Mark Ross
Loyal user
Batavia, NY
227 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 9:28am
I would recommend NOT using the chop cup feature until you have a "chop-less" routine in hand. I also recommend the Ammar videos (and the book if you can find it)as they will guide you from a "beginner" routine, through many moves, etc, all the way to Ammar's & Vernon's routines. Enjoy the journey, as I did.
Mark
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 10:51am
How much smaller should the balls be? I was wondering if there was some sort of rule of thumb on the sizes.
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Dave V
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4700 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 11:48am
Not knowing the size of the balls or the type of cups you have, that's an impossible question to answer.
Personally, I don't nest any balls between cups, so that problem doesn't apply to me. I go with the biggest I can comfortably finger palm which is about 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Donnie Buckley
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1012 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 1:01pm
There is no reason that you should have to pound a cup to release a ball anymore. The pounding is what is causing the ball to bounce up higher than it should and re-adhere. The problem is with the ball - not the cup.
I make "adjustable" chopped balls in a wide variety of sizes that solve this problem.
There are plenty of good DVD and book resources for learning routines, with or without the chop cup. Ammar's DVDs will teach you the fundamentals and bring it all together into a routine for a straight set of balls.
The Vernon Mendoza Combo Cups Routine for Combo Cups is considered a classic which utilizes the chop cup.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way.
Rings-N-Things / RNT2
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rudy-ray
New user
57 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 6:30pm
I made balls out of aluminum foil, made different sizes found the right size for me. Until I could get a table built, I used a thick dish towel for a pad. I started with the routine in Mark Wilson's book.
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Feb 23, 2012 11:43pm
Before we unbag too many felines in an open forum, I suggest that s.freeman get 50 posts ASAP so he or she can access the secret sessions. There are a couple of threads there that address all of the problems that are being discussed here. Same thing is true for rudy-ray. If you don't have the required 50 posts, you can't even see that the secret sessions exist. And we can't reveal all the info either of you need in order to help you solve the problem, because they are, by their very nature, secrets that the gilpins don't need to know.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 1:07am
I'm working on my post count as we speak
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 1:08am
I mean it! 
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tm613
Regular user
Phila, PA
115 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 8:07am
Quote:
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On 2012-02-24 01:08, s.freeman wrote:
I mean it!
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Me too
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 1:01pm
Thanks everyone for all your help, my wife is picking me up some supplies and I'm gonna try making my own monkey fist balls to see what I like
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Dave V
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4700 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 2:35pm
That's what I eventually did. I found about three marble sizes at a local craft store to use as cores. Impossible to "chop" but at least I now know what fits me best, plus the making of the monkey fists themselves was a fun side project.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Pete Biro
V.I.P.
17755 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 2:51pm
Once you get the ball size you like... start slow... don't try to make a routine. Learn to do a false transfer and finger palm. Dai Vernon always preached, "Learn to handle small objects in a natural way."
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
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Dave V
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4700 Posts
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Posted: Feb 24, 2012 6:17pm
Bigger balls mean you don't have to "clench" so much, making your hand position more natural. It's a delicate balancing act to get the largest ball possible that still fits under the cups you have. Or, you can consider that you will be changing cups at some point in the future.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 25, 2012 2:06am
Any recommendations for what kind of cord to use for monkey fists?
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Dave V
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4700 Posts
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Posted: Feb 25, 2012 2:58am
Leather lace works for me. Nice texture. Pull test a piece if you're buying it on a spool. Some of it is cut badly and will break with the slightest tug.
Others like nylon parachute cord. Lots of nice colors, but I think it's too slippery. At least the stuff I tried was. It's a good place to start though and easy to work.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 25, 2012 8:44pm
Thanks for all your help! I think I'll post some pictures when I get them done, I was thinking about building my own table too...
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JESmagic
New user
Cleveland, Ohio
84 Posts
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Posted: Feb 26, 2012 9:47am
I agree that you don't have to use the "chopped" cup in the routine. Virtually anything that you do with the chop cup can be done with other sleights. Personally, if you are a beginner, I would work on a routine that is solid with a few sleights that you can master well. Then, once you do that routine well, expand out to more complex moves. Remember that the lay audience will pretty much only remember the final load sequence anyway...so make sure that is well orchestrated.
Jonathan Schweid, M.D.
President, JESmagic
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s.freeman
New user
54 Posts
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Posted: Feb 27, 2012 2:03am
Anyone ever make monkey fist balls? what do you do with the ends?
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tm613
Regular user
Phila, PA
115 Posts
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Posted: Feb 27, 2012 8:38am
Quote:
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On 2012-02-27 02:03, s.freeman wrote:
Anyone ever make monkey fist balls? what do you do with the ends?
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cut it close and stuff it under another strand
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yin_howe
Special user
Malaysia
549 Posts
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Posted: Feb 28, 2012 9:19am
Pull it back under the other overlapping strand
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
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conjurormatt
Regular user
Ft. Worth, TX
166 Posts
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Posted: Feb 29, 2012 2:46pm
If tucking seems impossible, you can cut it close to the ball and add a dot of superglue to hold it down. Be careful, though, or you'll have two fingers temporally disabled (i.e. glued together).
Cheers!
Matt M.
Matthew Martin
"Merely to be acquainted with the basic secret of a card trick, in no way qualifies you to perform it. Few people realize that even a simple trick in the hands of a capable performer can become a minor miracle."
~Dai Vernon
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