| Go to page (Previous) 1 ~ 2 |
|
|
John Long
Inner circle
New Jersey
1782 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 13, 2012 8:48pm
Quote:
|
On 2012-02-28 19:10, Harry Murphy wrote:
Frankly, I would advise checking out Ron Bauer's "The Cursed Ring". it is a ring on stick (OK, ring on pencil) that requires nothing extra and is multi-phase. Ron's manuscript gives you a script, the handling, bits of business, and presentation advice. You get so much more than just the basic handling of the trick.
|
|
The routine is nice, but it has only two phases, and the first is more of a joke than magical (but it does add to the second phase). I would have preferred more phases, as in Bev's version.
John
|
Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6570 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 15, 2012 9:28pm
I've been watching Charlie Miller teach this on video. He says he has heard about the trick and asked Max Malini about it. Charlie didn't think it was that good, until he tried it. He has some nice touches on it.
|
Sealegs
Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
1814 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 23, 2012 3:48pm
The video of Bev Bergeron was very interesting to watch. He certainly has the pacing and scripting such that the action carries the routine along. One doesn't end up with any opportunity to dwell on any of the handling very much which is how any routine should be structured.
But (there's always a 'but') Bev's routine still has a physically awkward moment in it, that is repeated, where he has to use his left hand (which is 'holding' the ring) to reach over his right hand to indicate to the spectator where to hold the stick. At this point the other end of the stick is being held by the other spectator so Bev's right hand is effectively 'unnecessarily' (and awkwardly) holding the stick. A more natural action would be to let go of the stick with the right hand to indicate to the spectator where to hold the stick but the method makes this not possible.
Now of course there's an argument to claim that this moment is choreographed within the routine such that it goes by unnoticed or/and that all handling is a compromise of method and desired effect. But the degree to which one accepts these kinds of compromises is personal and for me this effect, both as a performer and as a spectator, is lacking a handling/technique that makes it smooth enough for my sensibilities.
In other words, while I can see the effectiveness of Bev Bergeron's routine it hasn't changed my opinion about this effect.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
|
Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12919 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 23, 2012 11:12pm
Quote:
|
On 2012-03-23 15:48, Sealegs wrote:
In other words, while I can see the effectiveness of Bev Bergeron's routine it hasn't changed my opinion about this effect.
|
|
Okay, no problem, I believe you have a right to like or dislike a trick or routine. IF the classic handling has weak, point, and I understand exactly what you are referring to, then it has a weak point. No doubt about it.
Some prefer to work on over coming the weak point, but if you chose not accept that explanation, that is okay as well. As I read the post, I don't think anyone was trying to change your mind, they were just explaining the finer points of the handling in the routine.
I do Ring on Rope and Ribbon, more then the straight Ring on Stick, it just never fit with me either, as I can get 5 minutes out of my Ring and Ribbon sequence.
But it is a good item to have in your knowledge bank, if you were in a situation where the only things available was a ring and pen.
|
Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12919 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 23, 2012 11:19pm
Quote:
|
On 2012-03-13 20:48, John Long wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2012-02-28 19:10, Harry Murphy wrote:
Frankly, I would advise checking out Ron Bauer's "The Cursed Ring". it is a ring on stick (OK, ring on pencil) that requires nothing extra and is multi-phase. Ron's manuscript gives you a script, the handling, bits of business, and presentation advice. You get so much more than just the basic handling of the trick.
|
|
The routine is nice, but it has only two phases, and the first is more of a joke than magical (but it does add to the second phase). I would have preferred more phases, as in Bev's version.
John
|
|
Why not add more phases yourself, there is no law that says you cannot be creative. I myself have created 2 routines by taking material from several sources and combining them into one routine. I have even changed the props and in my opinion made the tricks better by changing some of the material. Like a paper envelope to the nest of purses for the final reveal, and adding more puzzling moves to make the trick seem to build in more impossible looking releases.
Be creative and have fun!
|
RS1963
Inner circle
2363 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 24, 2012 12:24am
As for changing ones mind about the effect. The only thing that could possibly change your mind is to actually try it. If you ever decide to. Forget all the other versions out there and go with the Vernon handling directly from Stars of Magic first. If you ever do try it. You just maybe amazed at how this somewhat dismal effect to you is much stronger than you think.
|
Sealegs
Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
1814 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 25, 2012 1:12am
Bill, I think your right in that I don't think anyone was setting out to change my mind about this effect but I was kind of hoping that during this thread someone would. I admire Michael Skinner enormously and it irks me to not be able to see something extra special in this effect that he obviously could.
I'm pretty sure that's way more likely to be a failing in my judgement rather than Michael Skinner's.
RS1963; suggested I, "... try it. You just maybe amazed at how this somewhat dismal effect to you is much stronger than you think."
Just for the record.... As far as I'm concerned It's not a dismal effect and I'm quite aware how strongly it can play with an audience.
I just don't think it warrants being considered as "the greatest trick ever created", as it was stated in the opening post that Michael Skinner thought it to be. It seems to me that an effect that has a built in weakness that needs to be accommodated is an unlikely candidate for such a legend.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
|
Harry Murphy
Staff
Maryland
4853 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 25, 2012 9:58am
Horses for courses here. Mike Skinner's opinion is his own (and shared by some) and based on his experience performing. He felt the routine was stronger than color changing knives, linking rings, and any card trick he knew and performed. Experiences and performers vary. You don't share the opinion and probably have a trick/routine in mind that in your opinion is "the greatest trick ever created". In your hands it probably feels true.
In my hands the version of this trick/routine works well. Unlike Mr. Skinner I wouldn't say it was the greatest trick ever (the jury is out for that one I am so fickle. Still, it works.
There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of tricks that I simply don't like, don't fit my performing style, or can't quite "get". I simply don't waste any of my time on them. I leave them for others. The beauty of magic is that it is varied and broad. Horses for courses.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
|
RS1963
Inner circle
2363 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 26, 2012 12:52pm
B.T.W. Michael Skinner had two versions of Ring on Stick that he would do. One was the standard Vernon way. He also had a version that only used the spectators ring a handkerchief and a rubber band. Both are very strong.
|
Justin W.
Loyal user
222 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 4, 2012 9:50pm
Quote:
|
As far as I know the Ring on Stick that Michael Weber uses is not in any notes. It is however in his book Lifesavers.
|
|
There is a handling in his notes that differs from the one in Lifesavers. I like it. It's quick, and you get three penetrations--on, off, on. All without a duplicate (ring or otherwise).
|
Mb217
Inner circle
V.I.P. ;)
5757 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 18, 2012 10:15am
Watched Bev's take on this and while OK, I think this sorta take on it is a bit more up to date and much more stealth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJLoZSt6eKM&feature=fvwp
*Check out my latest Crimp Change - REDUX! and other fine magic at www.vinnymarini.com 
"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb
|
Harry Murphy
Staff
Maryland
4853 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 18, 2012 12:50pm
Eric's is truly a ballet and looks very magical.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
|
Xcath1
Inner circle
1040 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 19, 2012 3:01pm
Eric, d**n he sure turns a tired old routine into a piece of sweet visual magic.
|
RS1963
Inner circle
2363 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 20, 2012 1:41pm
Eric's is nice but I still prefer having spectator hold on to the ends and bam their ring is on the wand stick etc.. Nothing better than that in my opinion. Mileage may vary for others of course.
|
Mb217
Inner circle
V.I.P. ;)
5757 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:38pm
Not for nothing but clearly you can see how in Eric's take on this where he could easily have spec's hold on to each end like in the old performances, he just didn't have anyone in the video with him to do that and so was just showing a few moves, as the video title speaks to. Personally I see no comparison as to the moves, the magician or the magic but you're right RS, mileage may vary.
*Check out my latest Crimp Change - REDUX! and other fine magic at www.vinnymarini.com
"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb
|
jedoonatmagic
Loyal user
FL/residing temp. TX
223 Posts
|
Posted: Apr 21, 2012 6:33am
Wow..., I'm surprised that that video reemergered! LoL It's a good routine, and I have reversed engineered it. But I haven't got around performing it for anyone.
One for the money...., 2 for a pass..., 3 for a Fly..., and 4 for matrix!
|
J-Mac
Inner circle
Ridley Park, PA
3012 Posts
|
Posted: May 31, 2012 1:16am
Another Ring on Stick that I don’t think was mentioned here is R. Paul Wilson's "The One True Ring", which uses a one-piece street wand and an Ellis Ring. Three quick phases: On, off, and finally on again while specs hold the ends of the wand. Flows nicely and looks magical.
http://www.rpaulwilson.com/videos.htm
Thanks!
Jim
|
VernonOnCoins
Inner circle
Long Island, NY
1190 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 24, 2012 9:58am
Tommy Wonder has a beautiful sequence written up in one of the Books of Wonder.
www.tarologyfilm.com
www.chrisdeleomagic.com
|
Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12919 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 24, 2012 2:41pm
Yes, I agree R. Paul Wilson's "one True Ring" routine looks good, it will take some work to master it, but it would make a nice addition to any Ring on Stick routine using an Ellis Ring. It would be an easy matter to segway to a spectator's finger ring, and finish with the Classic handling mentioned previously.
I did not notice a ring on wand trick in the Wonder Books, do you have a volume and page number.
|
VernonOnCoins
Inner circle
Long Island, NY
1190 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 25, 2012 9:25am
Sorry, I no longer own these books and have forgot which one it's in. Basically this is a move -one sequence- which contains some off beat deceptions... a sequence you could add to any existing routine... very Tommy Wonder and very cool
www.tarologyfilm.com
www.chrisdeleomagic.com
|
Harry Murphy
Staff
Maryland
4853 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 25, 2012 4:40pm
The Books of Wonder Volume II, pages 64 through 68. The chapter is called " "Clear Through".
Tommy Wonder/Jos Bema teaches "one original method for achieving this effect (Ring penetrating a stick)". He notes that single sequence is probably not substantial enough to stand alone but could be incorporated in a longer routine.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
|
VernonOnCoins
Inner circle
Long Island, NY
1190 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 26, 2012 6:45am
Thanks for following up, Harry. It's a terrific move
www.tarologyfilm.com
www.chrisdeleomagic.com
|
Tonylew
Regular user
Tracy, CA
181 Posts
|
Posted: Sep 12, 2012 10:51pm
As was mentioned in a previous posting, I learned the Ring on Wand in the early 1960's from a Johnny Platt lecture. I feel that it is one of the strongest routines that I do. I do not know anything about the other methods, but Johnny's routine flows smoothly along with no awkward moves. I use a heavy gold ring of my own that I always wear. The spectator examines it to make sure it is OK. I find the weight to be perfect for the trick. It makes a great climax to see that shiny ring spinning on the wand.
If I am doing a kids show, I use this as an encore bit with an adult as my helper. It never fails to get a great reaction.
|
manal
Inner circle
York ,PA.
1335 Posts
|
Posted: Sep 13, 2012 2:21am
Sol Stone
Life is too important to take seriously.
james@jamesmanalli.com
www.jamesmanalli.com
|
Lawrence O
Inner circle
Paris France
6269 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 2, 2012 4:25am
Quote:
|
On 2012-05-31 01:16, J-Mac wrote:
Another Ring on Stick that I don’t think was mentioned here is R. Paul Wilson's "The One True Ring", which uses a one-piece street wand and an Ellis Ring. Three quick phases: On, off, and finally on again while specs hold the ends of the wand. Flows nicely and looks magical.
http://www.rpaulwilson.com/videos.htm
Thanks!
Jim
|
|
To me R Paul Wilson is by far the most visual routine. It's not any shorter than other routines and its performance in full view (not even screened by the hand) is really astounding.
Now, apart from Michael Weber, who can be seen on his Greater Magic Video Library performing this Tom Sellers effect that he unearthed for us, Daryl has a version with a stick and a rope, Sol Stone in his DVD has another sleight of hand version...
With a little work, one could combine the script suggested by Ron Bauer and R Paul Wilson technique for a really entertaining routine.
Magic is not a performing art where people don't know how situations are reached, it's the art of showing parallel dimensions that can't be reached
|
Sealegs
Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
1814 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 5, 2012 9:40am
The video clips of Paul R Wilson's and Eric Jones's take on the ring on stick are really excellent. Paul and Eric have both created terrific close up routines for the ring and stick.
They certainly do away with the issues and weaknesses that I earlier identified and completely change the feel of the effect. Making it a one man effect, with no assisting spectators involved, gives a reason and rationale for continuously holding onto the stick. This greatly adds to the effectiveness of the magic as all the handling becomes completely naturally motivated.
These two routines have the feel of the now rarely seen, slightly old fashioned Jardine Ellis ring routines that I enjoyed seeing members at my local club perform when I was a young lad.
They're great pieces of magic but they are very different in nature to the stand up cabaret style ring on stick effect.
Introducing spectators into these close up routines would change the requirements of the handling ( I'm not suggesting Paul or Eric's routines ought to, should or need spectators actively involved... I'm just pointing out that the inclusion of spectators completely changes the handling requirements) and the same problems of having the spectators holding while you also hold the stick would have to be addressed.
In an earlier post someone wrote about my stated dislike for the weakness in this effect saying. " Some prefer to work on over coming the weak point, but if you chose not accept that explanation, that is okay..."
I'm happy that some are working to overcome the weaknesses of otherwise excellent effects... it wasn't that I didn't accept that people were working to over come the weak points it's that no suggestions had been offered that addressed and solved the issue of the weakness that I disliked. Of course Paul and Eric's versions do remove the weakness I disliked but they also change the look of the routine. That's not a criticism... their routines are fantastic... but they no longer play like a classic stand up ring on stick routine.
But... since I last posted on this thread I had the pleasure of seeing Michael Weber give a lecture during which he included his handling for the ring on stick. His routine has a spectator holding the ends of the stick and in an explanation of his routine he mentioned the same potential weak moment in the routine that I brought attention to in this thread. Fortunately though he had a very small and quite subtle bit of handling that instantly dealt with this weakness in such a way that the problem instantly disappeared.
I guess we aren't all lucky enough to have a brain that thinks in the clever way Michael Weber's does.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
|
Leo H
New user
66 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:44pm
Sol Stone's 3 phase Ring on Stick routine can be found in The Essential Sol Stone. It utilizes a borrowed wedding band and a pen that can also be borrowed. You can also do Sol's routine with a wand that can be adjusted to half its size. The ring penetrates the pen, you pretend to remove it with a bar gag to add soome humor and relax the spectator's attention for the final penetration off the pen.
|
Rainboguy
Inner circle
1056 Posts
|
Posted: Mar 4, 2013 3:52pm
The late, great, Jim Ryan took the time to teach me his version of his ring to stick routine many, many years ago during a Houdini Club of Wisconsin convention in Appleton, Wisconsin.
Jim was a great guy and was loved by all and will be missed.
This weekend I made another stick (wand) to use with this routine and as a backup for my cups and balls.
Jim Ryan's routine is pretty hard to beat!
You can see more information abut the Jim Ryan routine here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=7849&forum=4
|
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Ring On Stick |
|
|
| Go to page (Previous) 1 ~ 2 |
