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Laurent van Trigt
Regular user
159 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 10:21am
The Books of Wonder have had praise from all over the world. But how many have actually tried out his concept first approach in creating magic (as opposed to the more common method-driven)? I really liked that part of the books. For those who haven’t read it, it goes something like this: Dream the effect first as if you were a real magician. Don’t think of a method yet. Tommy even suggests videotaping yourself just miming the dream. The highlights in the dream will give you the shadows (ie. what you focus on, will create something ‘out of focus’). The shadows give room for a method. And the method will give the dream to the audience. Is anyone here actively using this approach? Dreaming now…
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ebusojar
Regular user
124 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 10:28am
Yes. Yes. Yes. The man is a genius and his thinking was eye-opening the first time I read it. His thoughts clarified so many of my questions about what makes our magic "magical." Since then, I have tended to follow his ideas of dreaming and imagining your ideal effect and then creating that. It's a long process, and I think we need a strong base of knowledge in magic methodology to make our ideals work, but it has given me an incredible amount of direction lately.
Inparticular, the idea of shadow areas that already exist in an ideal routine solidified a very hazy conception of misdirection on my part. One of the many gems in his works.
Off to dream up another effect,
Evan
Evan Northrup
www.evannorthrup.com
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wandmgc8
New user
Tennessee
90 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 11:32am
To me, it is always more of a challenge to come up with an original effect rather than a method. Once an effect is selected, it is usually possible to tweak the effect, if needed, to accommodate the method, and, vice-versa. Besides Tommy's wonderful books, it is also advisable to look at the suggestions within "The Trick Brain" by Dariel Fitzkee, in which, a method is proposed to come up with new effects.
I also liked Tommy Wonder's use of the phrase "attention direction" to replace the word, "misdirection". It makes a lot more sense to me, being a more accurate description of what is sometimes necessary.
Thanks...Michael
www.moonlightmagic.us
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Laurent van Trigt
Regular user
159 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 12:29pm
Nice meeting you Evan, and Michael. It may be worth while mentioning Tommy is clear that this 'tweaking' the effect to accommodate the method isn't ideal because you are modifying the dream, the ideal picture. For me this was (and still is) one of the hard parts. It's so easy to immediately get side-tracked into thinking methods. Of course, most of the time you will have no choice other than tweaking the presentation a bit, but it should come as a last resort.
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motown
Inner circle
Atlanta by way of Detroit
4765 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 10:29am
I've always approached creating magic from a conceptual point of view. This comes from working in the advertising business on the creative side. For me this has been the best way to work. Really have to agree with Tommy's approach.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
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lynnef
Special user
608 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 12:28pm
Often we see video posts of an 'impossible' effect in this Café; and people respond that it must be 'camera trickery'. All too often, it's dismissed instead of looked upon as a challenge. Can't we make the surreal a visual effect? Yes, Tommy Wonder often brought the dreams to life; and I miss him very much. Lynn
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Brad Burt
Inner circle
2410 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 8:20pm
Tommy Wonder is a 'magic' treasure. Wonderful.
It should be noted though that 'creativity' happens in differing ways for different people. It has to do with the way in which different people think and process information.
In magic it happens in two distinct ways: #1 is the Wonder method of imagining the 'What', the effect, etc. and then deriving a method that comes as close as possible to the 'dream'.
#2 is to look at method and then to extrapolate out from the method to as many effects as one can come up with.
I would argue that the second is the more productive for the following reason: Consider that logically the first method locks one into a frame of mind that looks to solve ONLY the ONE effect. I have no problem with that. But, notice that if one starts with method, from the method can frequently be devised many excellent effects all of which are essentially different. Look at all the varying effects possible with an Elmsley Count for instance.
I don't think that I am saying that #2 is 'better'. Not at all. I just think that it's more productive. On the downside, by the way, it can also contribute more dreck to the craft. Not ALL that is invented is good just because it came into being.
The strength of the first method is that if the 'effect' itself is very, very good, even unique, and one can devise a sufficient method, then one can almost be guaranteed of an excellent routine. The dross is by the method excluded, etc.
All best,
Brad Burt
Brad Burt's Magic Shop Online
www.bradburtsmagicshop.com
Brad Burt's Private Lesson Teaching DVDS:
http://www.nexternal.com/bburt/Category18
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The Burnaby Kid
Inner circle
GwangJu, South Korea
2720 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 8:27pm
That's an interesting point, Brad, especially since Tommy Wonder was pretty strict about trying to make sure his Mind Movie went along precisely according to schedule with little deviation -- in terms of the close-up interactive stuff, we don't have much to work with aside from the L&L vids, but you can see bits and pieces of that with Deja Reverse, The Magic Ranch, and the Watch to Nest of Boxes reveals. That may be a drawback if you've got this tightly-designed package where the method needs everything around it to be perfect in order for it to work properly.
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Vick
Inner circle
It's taken me 9 years to make
1044 Posts
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Posted: Mar 9, 2012 11:37am
Obviously Tommy Wonder was brilliant, I lived with the "Books of Wonder" for some time and revisit them occasionally. There is sooooo much amazing materiel and thought process in those books, they should be required reading for anyone serious about performing.
and yes I agree with his assessment of the "Too Perfect Theory"
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Blog of a real world working magician
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Lloyd_SG
New user
79 Posts
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Posted: Mar 16, 2012 8:56am
Tommy Wonder performs REAL magic.
I'm so please to have watched his performance live.
His Cups & Balls kills the house.
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25250 Posts
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Posted: Mar 16, 2012 12:49pm
Quote:
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On 2012-03-16 08:56, Lloyd_SG wrote:
Tommy Wonder performs REAL magic.
I'm so please to have watched his performance live.
His Cups & Balls kills the house.
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A very long time ago - TW performed in NY. It was a pleasure to see him perform. He had his own way of going about making tricks work and a pleasant way of performing. Watching him do the the cups and balls with two cups, the cups mouth up and using balls that looked like white pretzels ... big smile with that recollection.
There are other such original visions and voices in our community today, alive and accessible. Keep your eyes open.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: Mar 16, 2012 1:15pm
I think Christian Chelman has a similar approach. Story first, then effects to fit the story.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Moncle
New user
8 Posts
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Posted: Mar 21, 2012 2:07pm
Tommy's method also allows for you to incorporate the other elements such as good theatre, drama, conflict, tempo,suspense, relaxation points, and emotion. Surely this can only be attained by walking through the piece in your mind. Not easy, and I haven't yet achieved this. The ambitious card to ring box and Tamed card are good examples of this.
Anyway aren't we lucky.
Moncle.
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Laurent van Trigt
Regular user
159 Posts
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Posted: Mar 22, 2012 2:24pm
Quote:
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On 2012-03-16 12:49, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
There are other such original visions and voices in our community today, alive and accessible. Keep your eyes open.
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I have heard great things about your coin work, Jonathan. I'm waiting for the day to see it live!
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cirrus
Inner circle
his minions made
1475 Posts
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Posted: Apr 10, 2012 3:57pm
I used the tommy wonder method to create my diary effect. My method is as perfect as it gets without making to much compromises in methodology. Everything is as it should be if you were doing it for real. Everything is covered in the presentation. At one time I even set criteria that my method needed to meet.
His writing is simple and thoughtprovoking. He was a real genius.
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Jim Oliver
Regular user
Las Cruces, New Mexico
133 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 10:08am
In the late 70's Tommy Wonder (then known as Jos Bema) did a lecture for
our magic club in El Paso, Tx.
If my memory serves me well, we were at Baltazar Fuentes' home and Tommy
performed his now world famous Cups and Balls, Coins Across and Deja Reverse.
We were speachless!
Blown away beyond words.
And this was in the 70's.
Little did we know then that this man would become one of the most influential,
and inspiring magicians of the modern age.
I will never forget Tommy Wonder!!
Jim
Ed Marlo rules
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Mr. Mystoffelees
Inner circle
I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
3358 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 10:53am
Time to hit that book again- thanks, Laurent! And yes, I would stand in line to watch Jonathan perform his coins live...
As I felt the soft, cool mud squish between my toes, I thought "Man, these are not very good shoes" Jack Handey
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