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Magic-Daniel
Special user
Denmark
682 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 10:18pm
Despite being into magic for many years, I know very little about the faro shuffle or what you can do with this sleight. But just by the "sound" of this sleight, it sounds a bit scary  Do a lot of you guys do faro work out in the real world? Should a faro shuffle be as reliable as say, the double lift?
If you were to recommend some sources to get starting on the mechanics of the faro shuffle, where would that be?
Thanks
Daniel
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The great Gumbini
Inner circle
1207 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 10:21pm
Daniel,
This is the one that got away with me. I watched people do it and I tried but I guess a man has to know his limitations. To all who CAN do this my hat is off to you.
Good magic to all,
Eric
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Indigo
New user
88 Posts
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Posted: Mar 2, 2012 11:22pm
Harry Lorayne, the Classic Collection volume 1 for instruction.
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billmarq
Elite user
but still a novice after
407 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 1:10am
After a couple of weeks of practice I finally acquired the knack of doing a pretty good faro shuffle but I still have never been able to do a perfect one. My best effort resulted in the top two cards and the bottom two being the only non-interlaced cards. It is matter of using the correct amount of tension and not trying to force the cards too much. For me, it helps to bevel the deck slightly and return it to "square" before separating the deck into two halves. This loosens the cards ever so slightly but you don't want to loosen them very much or you will get pairs and triples interlacing. I am speaking as a person still new to this technique and not as an expert.
Mr. Lorayne gives the basic technique in his book, but as he says, you just need to keep practicing until you get it.
I recall Dai Vernon joking about the "butt shuffle" on one of his Revelations DVDs.
So much magic, so little time.
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magicfish
Inner circle
2836 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 3:54am
Piece of cake. Make it your boredom move.
See Mike Close's Workers Series for his definition of a boredom move.
awesome.
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1524 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 5:36am
If the sides and corners of cards are nicked, then the perfect faro will be difficult. You can sand them, or spend a few kroner/pounds/dollars on a new pack of cards.
My approach was to start with the pack in NDO, then keep performing out faros (when the top and bottom cards remain the same). 8 perfect out faros later and the deck has returned to its original state. This helps with the boredom factor! Once you have it down, you can perform 'Unshuffled', by Paul Gertner, which is a good trick.
Many other good tricks, (Lorayne, Close, Ortiz et al) also become available with the perfect faro.
Good luck, and keep practicing, but remember what Miller said..... 
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1tepa1
Veteran user
354 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 6:37am
Yep, if you just practice it enough it will be reliable. You could try to start with tricks that wont need a perfect faro, just partially perfect one.
I am so confident that when I get handed a deck that is maybe in poor condition I may still do a trick with a faro. I have done faro shuffles with a deck that was over 10 years old in one of my summer jobs a couple of years back. I was impossible to spread that deck, and if you threw it in the air it would not scatter, the cards were like glued together by dirt. Some cards had been torn, some cards had some sort of oil stains in them. I actually was going to steal the deck from there and put a new deck in its place. Just so I could say that I had the worst deck of cards on the planet. But I forgot to.
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hp
New user
79 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 7:21am
The best instructions I have seen are Fred Robinson's description in Vol. 1 No. 1 of Pabular. And Pabular goes up to Vol. 8 No. 10! It is chock full of other material and is a great buy when you get it in digital format.
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prg
Regular user
106 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 7:23am
For a beginner, one crucial issue is to start with the right kind of deck.
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DaveM
Special user
Germany
754 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 8:23am
I spent many, many hours learning the "in the hands" faro, then venturing to tackle the "table faro"
For me, it was all about keeping the packets perfect squared and under control.
I'm right handed, and keep the top half of the packets in my right hand. When starting the weave, I always make sure to keep my right-hand pinky across the bottom of the packet (opposite the weaving end) in order to help keep things squared. I do the same to the other packet with my left-hand index finger.
Hope this helps.
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Maximilien
New user
Paris (France)
33 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 8:35am
Since we are talking about faro shuffle here, I just have a question. I bought twelve Bee decks recently, and although I can faro shuffle, this was impossible with those decks, no matter what (cards face-up, face-down, one way or another). I had never had this problem before with Bee decks. Any ideas why?
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Steve Friedberg
Inner circle
1256 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 9:07am
Max,
It may be the cut of the decks. USPC has had a habit in the past of cutting its cards so that face-down faroing was all but impossible for most of us. Richard Turner played a role in insisting that the cards manufactured for him be traditionally cut; that is, that they were cut in a manner so that face-down faroing was far easier. USPC has brought that same approach to several of its other lines of cards. For instance, I recently picked up several bricks of the Aristocrat bank note cards. They faro magnificently, as do the "generic" Aristocrats. Then again, I happen to like those cards in general. They have a snap and a feel that is far better than most of USPC's other generally-available decks.
If you can get a deck or two of Aristocrats or the Turners, try a faro with them. I think the combination of the deck and the tips outlined above will have you succeeding far more than with other decks you've used.
Cheers,
Steve
"A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland
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Maximilien
New user
Paris (France)
33 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 9:25am
Hi Steve,
Thank you so much for your answer. I was aware of the "cut" problem, but until now I just had to turn the deck the other way (face-up) and everything was just fine. And after a few hours, the bee deck could be faro shuffled one way or another. When I open a deck, I check the cut, and I faro shuffle accordingly. But with those decks, it is impossible no matter what. The deck looks like a very bad deck with very tough edges (a little bit like cheap Chinese cards). And it is a Bee deck!
Best regards.
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Sealegs
Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
1813 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 10:12am
The thing that tipped getting perfect faro's for me was Derek Dingle's handling as explained in "The Complete Works of Derek Dingle". This finesse makes all the difference.
It might be a bit of a big purchase just for this technique but there's a huge load of excellent material in this book and you'd be doing yourself a favour getting it regardless..
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
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alexhui
Inner circle
Hong Kong
1609 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 10:19am
Faro shuffle takes guts in the first few trials in real performance.
I highly recommend ppl to incorporate the move as early as possible otherwise one day you may feel you can live without it (indeed you can, but you will miss tons of great stuffs) and dare not to try.
Alex Hui
The Real Way of Magic is to touch the soul of our audience, but not to touch the ego of our soul
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Tom G
Inner circle
1776 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 11:42am
The problem I see with the faro, is that in many hands it looks like a studied move. There are few that can actually
make it look casual and unimportant.
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1524 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 12:30pm
Quote:
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On 2012-03-03 11:42, Tom G wrote:
The problem I see with the faro, is that in many hands it looks like a studied move. There are few that can actually
make it look casual and unimportant.
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True.
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Breather
Elite user
449 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 4:07pm
Not sure I agree. If anything it looks like a flourishy / flashy shuffle. If your concerned the participant may not be familiar with it, just refer to it as a vegas shuffle or casino shuffle. The weave and waterfall will certainly give the impression of a thorough shuffle. I have never had anyone question the authenticity of the faro.
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1524 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 4:12pm
I think that's what he meant by "studied".
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1387 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 4:22pm
In this case he doesn't mean studied as in flourishy. He means that an undue amount of attention and concentration is being given to the weaving of the cards which, if it were a completely random shuffle, would not require so much care.
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1524 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 4:26pm
Perhaps you are right. There is no need to waterfall the cards from a perfect faro, however, they can just be pushed together. So an unstudied, unwaterfalled faro would pass pretty well.
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Breather
Elite user
449 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 6:23pm
Can't see why you wouldn't waterfall them... that's a standard element to a riffle shuffle and IMO adds emphasis to the apparent shuffle. But yes, soemtimes it works just to push the packets together.
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1524 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 6:31pm
Man, I'm not personally involved in this; it is a theoretical debate.
I waterfall the cards, personally, because it's nice. For me. And also for them: it sells the shuffle in a way.
What I don't sanction is the interlaced, tabled spread, pre waterfall, which emphasises the perfect nature of the shuffle.
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6555 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 7:16pm
2 things helped be able to do a perfect faro:
1) Michael Close's instruction ( available from him )
2) Mandolin or Richard Turner decks. They are both cut the same way ( like a casino's ).
Clarke
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Breather
Elite user
449 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 8:03pm
Quote:
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On 2012-03-03 18:31, tomsk192 wrote:
Man, I'm not personally involved in this; it is a theoretical debate.
I waterfall the cards, personally, because it's nice. For me. And also for them: it sells the shuffle in a way.
What I don't sanction is the interlaced, tabled spread, pre waterfall, which emphasises the perfect nature of the shuffle.
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Yep I would agree with that.
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Jim Oliver
Regular user
Las Cruces, New Mexico
133 Posts
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Posted: Mar 3, 2012 11:25pm
I am going to tell you a story that I have told here before but it is the truth.
When my daughter was about nine years old (yes that was 9) I taught her how to do
the foro shuffle, and then how to do it with the cards held behind her back.
It really isn't that hard to do and now that she is 30 years old she can still do it.
I like to use it mostly with stacked decks. I give the stacked deck a couple of backward
inshuffles and then before going into the routine I give the deck a couple of faros of
the in type. Nothing looks better than a real shuffle when you are trying to presurve
a stack.
Jim
Ed Marlo rules
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MortenN
Veteran user
Norway
338 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 11:23am
Quote:
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On 2012-03-03 23:25, Jim Oliver wrote:
I like to use it mostly with stacked decks. I give the stacked deck a couple of backward
inshuffles and then before going into the routine I give the deck a couple of faros of
the in type. Nothing looks better than a real shuffle when you are trying to presurve
a stack.
Jim
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Can you please explain this better?
What do you mean by this.... : I give the stacked deck a couple of backward
in shuffles and then before going into the routine I give the deck a couple of faros of
the in type.
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gdw
Inner circle
4428 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 4:20pm
I'm guessing what he meant was that he essentially un faro the deck a few times. That is undoing a faro, seperating every other card. Then, before starting a performance, doing the same number of actual faros, undoing what you previously did, bringing the deck into order with a few shuffles. Very deceptive.
Of course, if you do a good Truffle Shuffle, very little is more convincing.
As for faros in general, Juan Tamariz has some good tips in one of his books. Don't remember which one though.
Faro work can be incredible, or boring. Some faro based effects can be fantastic, and others can be nothing more than lame mathematical puzzles, with little to no magical appeal, particularly considering the amount of work put into learning the faro.
Not that all math based effects are lame.
I started to seriously work on my faro (already learnt the basic faro, but started working on table, and in the hands riffle shuffle simulation faros) when I started working on a mem deck, which I have never bothered to memorise.
March 22, 2011, our beautiful baby girl, Evelyn, was born.
It's a brave new world, get with it, or get out of the way.
Man has evolved, "god" is extinct.
I won't forget you Robert.
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prg
Regular user
106 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 7:29pm
Gdw, as a fellow person with three initials, could you tell me
1 What Faro tricks you like, which don't seem like mathematical puzzles
2 How do I "undo" a Faro? My way is to set up a mem deck, then do 6 shuffles outside the spectators' presence, and then do 2 more in their presence.
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MortenN
Veteran user
Norway
338 Posts
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Posted: Mar 4, 2012 7:33pm
I was just wondering, is this actually possible? I can't get it to work mathematically. What is "undo" or "backward" Faro?
Maybe it's just that I do not understand. If it is indeed possible, I want to know the right way.
I usually do 6 out-faro in advance. When I use the deck I'm doing the last 2 out-faro weaving, which in total will be 8 out-faro and reset of the deck.
Check also out this site: http://www.arnoldmcdonald.org/code/main.php?p=6400000
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