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RNK
Inner circle
1819 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 7:24pm
As I stated in my earlier post, I think I like it, and I say think because I want to perform it in the real world first. the restoration of the card looks just as good live as it says on the video. You will just have to be careful of the lighting conditions.
RNK
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ralphs007
Special user
922 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 8:15pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-25 16:19, writeall wrote:
Pretty bad review on WPR. To those who have it: what say you?
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Hi
I'm kind of losing faith in WPR reviews/opinion's . Some of the things that I like they trash. And some of the things that I hate their in love with. For example,Rattled by Dan Hauss. Craig Petty claimed that this will be the next utility item for magicians. Yea that's why everybody's trying to unload one at the tricks for sale forum.
Today I watched them trash "The Mobius bill switch" . I think this is a very magical looking bill switch. Graig said we don't need another bill switch. That's his opinion not a review. We don't need another coin DVD but that never stopped him! I'd like to see a review and not some over the top rant about how he hates a new effect.
I get better feedback from the member's here at The Magic Café on what's hot and what's not. I'd rather see what twenty people think of an effect than just two guys on You-Tube with an agenda .
Ralph
P.S
Sorry for the rant but I just watched their review/opinion on "The Mobius bill switch" and I could disagree more with them.
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1513 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 8:22pm
Yeah, the review for the Möbius switch was unduly harsh. I wondered what provoked it? It looks very pretty to me, at any rate. Their compared it to switches using TT's, which seemed to miss the point a bit. Who knows?
I'd be really interested in someone who has Animate & Restore respond to David Penn's comments regarding exposing the gimmick. Any thoughts, chaps?
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ralphs007
Special user
922 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 11:27pm
I meant couldn't disagree more with them.
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
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saysold1
Inner circle
Recovering Cafe addict with only
4129 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 11:36pm
Craig and Dave lost their street cred some time ago.
Until someone mentioned a WPR on the Café today - I had blanked on them honestly - I haven't paid attention to them or watched WPR in months.
I agree with Ralph that many things they have crowed about (rattled was a good example!) I have not been impressed with.
Just two magic guys and their opinions - nothing more or less.
I get more from the Café too.
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FrenchDrop
Inner circle
I can name that tune in
1662 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2012 11:48pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-25 20:15, ralphs007 wrote:
I'm kind of losing faith in WPR reviews/opinion's . Some of the things that I like they trash. And some of the things that I hate their in love with. |
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That's kinda the nature of opinions, isn't it? No one's going to agree with all of them. If you agree with a reviewer some of the time, that's the best you can really hope for. If you find you virtually never agree with him, then ignore him. Your tastes are too different for his opinion to be of any value to you.
Quote:
| Today I watched them trash "The Mobius bill switch" . I think this is a very magical looking bill switch. Graig said we don't need another bill switch. That's his opinion not a review. |
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Wait...what? What else is a review but somebody's opinion? What's a review without opinion?
I think some people have a basic misunderstanding of what a review is -- or, for some reason, they expect it to be more than it is. It's just one person's subjective view. It's a mistake to believe that, if a reviewer's opinion differs from your own, one of you must be wrong.
It's also a mistake to assume that, if a reviewer's opinion differs from your own, he must have a hidden agenda. The simplest explanation is virtually always the truth -- and when you find you disagree with a review, the simplest explanation is that the reviewer sincerely likes something you don't like, or sincerely dislikes something you like. Anything more is just conspiracy theory arising from an inability to accept that someone could hold an opinion that differs from yours.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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writeall
Elite user
Midland, Michigan
495 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 12:00am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-25 20:22, tomsk192 wrote:
Yeah, the review for the Möbius switch was unduly harsh. I wondered what provoked it? It looks very pretty to me, at any rate. Their compared it to switches using TT's, which seemed to miss the point a bit. Who knows?
I'd be really interested in someone who has Animate & Restore respond to David Penn's comments regarding exposing the gimmick. Any thoughts, chaps?
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That was the bit I was thinking of. The specific criticism is that the gimmick can't be hidden well at all. In fact, Penn didn't do it for the camera because he claimed that simply showing the trick on WPR would be tantamount to exposure.
I don't have the effect and that's why I was asking if those who do have it agree, disagree or could comment on that specific point?
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RNK
Inner circle
1819 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 8:39am
I think the gimmick is hidden well. When you watch the demo, do you see the gimmick? As I keep posting, things may be spotted, depends on the lighting.
RNK
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ralphs007
Special user
922 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 2:24pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-25 23:48, FrenchDrop wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-04-25 20:15, ralphs007 wrote:
I'm kind of losing faith in WPR reviews/opinion's . Some of the things that I like they trash. And some of the things that I hate their in love with. |
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That's kinda the nature of opinions, isn't it? No one's going to agree with all of them. If you agree with a reviewer some of the time, that's the best you can really hope for. If you find you virtually never agree with him, then ignore him. Your tastes are too different for his opinion to be of any value to you.
Quote:
| Today I watched them trash "The Mobius bill switch" . I think this is a very magical looking bill switch. Graig said we don't need another bill switch. That's his opinion not a review. |
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Wait...what? What else is a review but somebody's opinion? What's a review without opinion?
I think some people have a basic misunderstanding of what a review is -- or, for some reason, they expect it to be more than it is. It's just one person's subjective view. It's a mistake to believe that, if a reviewer's opinion differs from your own, one of you must be wrong.
It's also a mistake to assume that, if a reviewer's opinion differs from your own, he must have a hidden agenda. The simplest explanation is virtually always the truth -- and when you find you disagree with a review, the simplest explanation is that the reviewer sincerely likes something you don't like, or sincerely dislikes something you like. Anything more is just conspiracy theory arising from an inability to accept that someone could hold an opinion that differs from yours.
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Hi
Opinion was the wrong choice of words. I would like to see an objective review of something and not some pig headed over the top rant. These are just magic tricks were talking about here, not something worth flying off the handle over. Maybe its his way of showing passion but to me he looks like he has anger management issues . I'd love to be a fly on the wall so to speak when Craig drives a car. I don't think I'd cut him off if I saw him on the road!
I do agree with what you said " If you find you virtually never agree with him, then ignore him. Your tastes are too different for his opinion to be of any value to you." I haven't watched WPR for several months now but I was curious to see what they had to say when writeall mentioned their review. The funny thing is after I saw the Mobius review I never did stick around for the Animate & Restore review.
Ralph
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
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FrenchDrop
Inner circle
I can name that tune in
1662 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 3:10pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-26 14:24, ralphs007 wrote:
Opinion was the wrong choice of words. I would like to see an objective review of something |
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What would an objective review look like? Just a description of the effect with no evaluation of whether it's good or bad? A review can't be objective; it has to be subjective, or it's not a review. You read (or watch) a review to get the reviewer's opinion of an effect you're interested in. If the reviewer didn't tell you whether he thought it was worth buying and performing, he wouldn't be doing his job.
I don't think you really want reviews that are objective or devoid of opinion. I think you want reviews that are nicer about being negative. That's valid. I didn't think Craig's review was "pig-headed" or "over the top," but he does have a tendency to rant when he dislikes something. He frequently admits as much on the WPR videos. I usually find it entertaining, although I can see how someone would be annoyed by it if Craig was ranting about a trick that person really liked. And David Penn tends to be a cooler head and balance out the rant, even when he essentially agrees with Craig. (It's a good formula, I think, having two reviewers with two different approaches -- I think it's why Siskel & Ebert were so popular.)
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6533 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 3:28pm
Craig and Dave both like to do things for the show they learned a few minutes before. That's their criteria for the show. "Animate & Restore" takes work not for the animation ( dead easy ), but the switch/cleanup. Vernon said he had no interest in anything that said "self working".
Jeff Stone gave Nate Kranzo's new release the worst review you can give. Yet, it's getting glowing reviews elsewhere.
Reviews are fun to watch and read ( even for Hollywood films ), but you're the best judge for what you like.
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FrenchDrop
Inner circle
I can name that tune in
1662 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 3:45pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-26 15:28, Zombie Magic wrote:
Craig and Dave both like to do things for the show they learned a few minutes before. That's their criteria for the show. |
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The whole "I just opened it five minutes ago, and I can do it already" thing is a running gag on the show and has been for a long time. I don't think either Petty or Penn actually use it as a criterion for judging a product. In fact, Petty often knocks effects that use a gimmick to achieve something you can do with sleight of hand and some practice.
"A great magician has said of his profession that its practitioners '… must pound and rack their brains to make the least learning go in, but quarrelling always comes very naturally to them.'” -- Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6533 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 4:03pm
It is a running gag, but they also do a performance demo of things they like and that are quite simple to learn if you have experience.
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tomsk192
Inner circle
1513 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 4:11pm
I wondered if there was an element of retribution in their review of Möbius. But then, I thought, they're grown ups. So I stopped wondering.
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sgtgrey
Loyal user
Austin, TX
248 Posts
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Posted: Apr 27, 2012 10:04pm
I've played with this a little bit, and finally decided to test it out on my wife, who has been party to most of my magic for so long that new effects rarely surprise her. She enjoyed it and really liked the idea in general, but told me that part of the gimmick was indeed noticeable to her sharp eyes. I'm convinced that this effect, in the right conditions, could amaze. However, I have yet to find the proper performance conditions (lighting, angles, etc.) so this effect will play out well without exposure. I would assume this has somewhat similar performance conditions to l***s, but is definitely more noticeable.
DVD- Well produced, but the steps of the routine preparation went by a little too fast, which meant a few times rewinding the video to get things right. I felt there could have been a little more depth explaining what you've received and how to handle it properly, but the routine is great. 3/5
Gimmick- For what it is, I thought the quality was exceptional. The DVD instruction also goes over how to handle/repair if necessary and extra harder to find materials are included just in case. Despite the fine workmanship of the gimmick, I would consider this moderately difficult to repair and fairly delicate. Handle with care! 4/5
Overall effect - Depends on whether or not I can set the performing conditions in my favor. If I can perform this in proper conditions to prevent exposure, it really looks great for that moment of strange when the cards move and can truly amaze and astonish people. However, I'm not sure if I will find the right conditions in my everyday performances, so I am doubtful this will go into my performance material. So final score...in the right conditions, perhaps 4/5... otherwise 2/5 for lack of practicality.
The above is just my personal thoughts on the product. I hope this helps some make decisions on whether or not this may be right for you.
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ralphs007
Special user
922 Posts
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Posted: Apr 27, 2012 11:21pm
Hi sgtgrey
Great review, thanks.
Ralph
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
James D. Miles
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lumberjohn
Special user
Memphis, TN
515 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:28am
I have this but don't like it. I have no idea what the right performance conditions would be. The gimmick is always visible during the cleanup -- and very visible at that. Also, the required performance space is way too cozy for my tastes. It looks very unnatural. I've also found the animation to be unpredictable -- occasionally getting "caught up.". This may play well on YouTube but not in the real world. Overall, a very shoddy product that tarnishes the Paul Harris name.
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Justin N. Miller
Inner circle
2371 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:32am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-28 09:28, lumberjohn wrote:
I have this but don't like it. I have no idea what the right performance conditions would be. The gimmick is always visible during the cleanup -- and very visible at that. Also, the required performance space is way too cozy for my tastes. It looks very unnatural. I've also found the animation to be unpredictable -- occasionally getting "caught up.". This may play well on YouTube but not in the real world. Overall, a very shoddy product that tarnishes the Paul Harris name.
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Wow, that is a shame that your having so much trouble with this very pretty and beautiful effect. I have a lecture coming up soon and I will be filming my performance of A&R in front of 30-40 magicians in a very bright lit room, just to show you guys that this is a very doable effect and in my mind very practical in the real world.
JM
THE BOLD PROJECT..Putting the art of magic where it belongs, in the hands of the student!
www.justinmillermagic.com
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NFW
Special user
UK
839 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 10:50am
Look forward to seeing that Justin
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writeall
Elite user
Midland, Michigan
495 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 3:41pm
Thanks Justin. That's the sort of clip that would get me off the fence.
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6533 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 4:21pm
Justin is not only a gifted sleight of hand artist and creator, but he's an expert at routine construction and audience management. I'm looking forward to how he handles this because it will be a master class.
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lumberjohn
Special user
Memphis, TN
515 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 5:28pm
Justin,
I look forward to seeing that too. I also have First Hand and I love it -- both the gimmicked and impromptu versions. First Hand provides a good contrast to this effect because it is very practical and virtually impossible to detect the method, as well as being very visual. While A&R is certainly visual and even beautiful when it works, I just haven't found it to be consistent. Also, I really want to see how you hide the gimmick from a room full of magicians.
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magicology
New user
52 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:21pm
Hey lumberjohn,
If you don't mind, we would truly appreciate more details regarding your concerns. Hopefully I can help. Feel free to skype with me. Or email. I will PM my details.
I have experience with A&R. There were a few others who performed with the gimmick prior to its release. As a gimmick/product, it was audience-tested many times. We thought Darryl Vanamburg did a solid job on the gimmick's construction. However, it was important that some of us, including JM, performance-tested the heck out of it.
We hoped the DVD would set you on your way. If there is anything I can help you with, especially regarding consistency, please let me know. It's very important to us understand where specific adjustments might need to be made.
You mentioned during the clean-up the gimmick would show. There are several things we can consider if this is occuring. Most were addressed on the DVD but I am more than happy to have an online session with you. I am sure Jesse Feinberg would too.
Animarestoring,
Joshua Logan
Production Manager
Paul Harris Presents
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magicology
New user
52 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:55pm
Sgtgrey,
Sorry, I missed your post. Thank you for the feedback.
Please let me know what we could have slowed down during the instructional. We tried to first have Jesse show the workings of the gimmick, then teach the set-up again in more detail.
There should be zero exposure during the performance, so I'm just wondering a few specifics.
Will PM you my details if you want to skype or email. I really think I can help!
Joshua Logan
Production Manager
Paul Harris Presents
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Christopher Congreave
Veteran user
U.K
388 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 3:39am
Wow, what great customer service! Hats off to you.
www.chriscongreave.co.uk
www.warpedmagic.co.uk
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Justin N. Miller
Inner circle
2371 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 5:03am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-29 03:39, Christopher Congreave wrote:
Wow, what great customer service! Hats off to you.
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That is the one thing you will NOT find in any other magic company, we at Paul Harris Presents are ALL artist and CREATORS, and we care about what needs to be fixed to make sure future students are able to grasp the vision we set forward in motion. Joshua, myself, Jesse, and paul are dedicated to making sure that you can perform each effect PHP puts out. If something needs to be fixed, the team is on it.
JM
THE BOLD PROJECT..Putting the art of magic where it belongs, in the hands of the student!
www.justinmillermagic.com
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Joe Kispokis
Regular user
Davenport, Iowa
101 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 11:46pm
Sounds like you need to get "on it".
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The One
Veteran user
302 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2012 1:43pm
Quote:
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I will be filming my performance of A&R in front of 30-40 magicians in a very bright lit room, just to show you guys that this is a very doable effect and in my mind very practical in the real world.
JM
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A lecture for magicians is the real world???
I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end...
I came here...
To tell you how this is going to begin.
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Ron Vergilio
Special user
Murrieta, CA
622 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2012 6:22pm
Couldn't ask for a more critical audience.
-Ron
May the magic in your life never disappear
*** Lou Serrano's Steel Ball Routine ***
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ahzhe
Regular user
153 Posts
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Posted: May 2, 2012 10:48pm
I put mine on sale here
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=464825&forum=76&0
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