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millusions
New user
94 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 10:14am
Hello all,
It's been a long time since I've been having around. I was the author of the now defunked book, Nash Reloaded, about the master card worker Martin A Nash. There was a lot of controversy surrounding the book. I'd like to put to all what happened and the get some advice regarding the book.
First was the lecture notes issue. Martin discovered that someone was selling copies of his lecture notes on ebay. He thought it was me and it ****ed him off. After some hard detective work, it was found that it wasn't me, but the bad feelings had already sunk in, and all this in the middle of the book project.
The book took three years of my life and it was three of the best years I've had in the business. The original book was to be an anthology of his works. the book was completed and then had to be canned due to a previous contractual obligation that Martin had with another publisher (that he forgot to mention until the last second).
The book was then retooled and Martin and myself worked with some other great magical minds and "revisited" current works or orchestrated new pieces all together based on his techniques. This greatly changed the book and brought the page count from 400 to just over 200. This created a problem. Martin felt that it wasn't what we had originally promised you, the reading magic public. He felt there was more me and less him, and after taking a small run of pre orders, he decided that production should cease until issues were worked out. People who made the pre-order angry and took it out on Martin instead of me. that's where the big problem began to come in. I worked to appease everyone, but by then, the damage was done. Martin felt his reputation had been irreparably damaged and it was my fault, and to this day, I still feel that it to a point was. I take responsibility for the issues. It was my book and my project and I let things get out of control.
We had a huge fight about all of it and our friendship came to an end. We rarely spoke after that. His death some years back hit me really hard. I knew that if I released the book after that and started to make money on it, I'd be a cad and a loser for waiting for my friend to die and then make money off his memory. I didn't want to disrespect his memory in that way.
Now, I need some advice. After consulting with several people in the know, it;s arguably decided that it's basically my book and I should do with it as I please.
But, again I don;t wish to be a vampirous leach and profit from the memory of my dead friend. So I've decided to get your opinions.
the book had not only a bunch of great material in it, but so much about Martin that I always fell should have been shared with the world.
I'm thinking of releasing the book, first as an ebook, then a limited run of hard bound print.
ALL PROCEEDS SHOULD GO TO A CHARITY.
I'dlike to get your guys opinion on what I should do, and if I do, what charity or organization the money should go to, I feel that would be the only true and honest way to proceed with being able to share this work with the world, but still do some good with it and me not end up burning in hell.
That's in advance for all your help
All my best,
Mike
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Ed Oschmann
Special user
Lake Worth FL
761 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 10:54am
Did he leave any family behind?
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millusions
New user
94 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 11:27am
I've looked at that possibility. He had an estranged daughter whom he hadn't spoken to in ages and I was never able to contact.
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Stanyon
Inner circle
Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago
2889 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 2:00pm
Go with your gut.
FWIW
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor
"Every move a move!"
"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
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Motor City
Elite user
Home Of Motor City Close-Up Convention
419 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 2:58pm
Since the proceeds will be going to a charity I see nothing wrong with publishing the book. Martin Nash was a class act and his work should be preserved.
www.johnlukamagic.com
johnlukamagic@gmail.com
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hofzinser
Veteran user
373 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 3:14pm
You ALREADY released this as an pdf and if I remember correctly, those that bought it were suppose to receive the hardback copy as well (possibly at a discount), unless I am remembering things wrong.
I bought one then and was VERY disappointed that you didn't follow through with the actual book as you said you would.
Now, after several years you want to start this up again. The ONLY thing that has changed is that Martin is no longer around to harass you about putting it out.
I knew Martin and I know that he would be furious it this was to go in print now!
Once a bloodsucker, always a bloodsucker. Am I ****ed? You bet!
My ONLY post on this issue.........
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millusions
New user
94 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 4:13pm
You are absolutely correct Hofzinser. It was released by Martin and myself for a brief period. Those who ordered would get an at cost copy of the hard back. You are also correct that I didn't follow through with the book. I laid out the reasons above as to why the project was binned. And you are also correct in that I have missed some of the peoplein making reparation for the problems.
I'm not making any excuses for anything. I'm just trying to see that the material is not lost. You saw in the ebook that there was some wonderful stories and material. I'd just like it to be available. That's all
Perhaps I'm wrong in this. Perhaps you are right and it's a bad Idea. Perhaps I should just put it out for free and open so that the work is shared, or perhaps I just just burry it again.
Am I a bloodsucker? Perhaps this makes me one. I don't know. I'm not goint to profit from this book in any fashion, but maybe it is just a bad idea.
I thank you for the input. This is why I asked.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 6:09pm
My View:
The material should not be lost.
It should be delivered to all who paid for it. If people paid for the hardcopy and only got the PDF, that money should be refunded from this release.
After that,no one should make money from it. There are charities that take care of older magicians-- that's where the money should go. Those charities are sponsored by SAM and IBM, I believe.
A third party (no one involved in the project) should administer all of this.
All of the above is predicated on the accuracy of the material. If you're sure the material is accurate and that Martin would be pleased with what is published, then I think the above is the most reasonable way to proceed-- excellent, worthy material is not lost, you're not "Bloodsucking" and the funds go to a worthy cause.
Finally, let me say that you are not the only one who has made mistakes like this. Boondoggles in magic are always around and I've been a part of two of them. Because of that, I can tell you that there will be people ****ed off at you for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do from this point on. Use due diligence, do the best you can to fix things and then let it go. Those three things are the only things that will give you peace over this.
SEY
P.S. I'd be willing to bet that if you've emailed out PDF's, they're already on the torrent sites. Don't worry about that. My suggestions stand.
The Best Close Up Mats In The World
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hofzinser
Veteran user
373 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 6:49pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-12 18:09, Steven Youell wrote:
My View:
The material should not be lost.
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How is the material lost? Copies were already sold years ago?
LOST?
I don't think so..........
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Magic-Daniel
Special user
Denmark
682 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 7:19pm
Wait....is there an ebook on the magic of Martin Nash?
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hofzinser
Veteran user
373 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 9:31pm
Not really....here is Martin Nash's comments at the beginning of the pdf for Nash Reloaded:
"This book is made up of VARIATIONS of my material that I have published over the years.
Card magic can only advance when others put their ideas and "twists" on older material.
MIKE has compiled many OF HIS own variations as well as others to create new methods as well as ideas to my material.
The ideas on presentation etc. are of course mime, but the "card changes" per se are done with my approval.
Sincerely,
Martin A. Nash
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Mobius303
Inner circle
Mike Perlman
1043 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 10:11pm
I have a copy of both the pre-released books. The second one was bought because I thought the first copy was gone.
The material is good and should be preserved. I did not understand what had happened at the time.
If there was material in the book that broke a contract that Martin had with another person then you should find out more about that before you try to republish the material. That wouldbe honoring Martin and then the money going to the charity would be in tribute to him.
I like the idea of the money going to the charity of helping magicians. Celini and Vernon both come to mind when I think of this charity...it does good.
I wish you luck in this that you make the correct decisions and it is not more trouble for you or the reputation Martin spent so long building.
Mobius
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millusions
New user
94 Posts
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Posted: Apr 12, 2012 11:46pm
None of the material is anything that was involved in the contract. That only included martins previous printed and video work. The original book never saw the light of day. It was erased upon completion due to Martins previous contract with Mike Maxwell.
The card work that ended up being in the book was revisited work or new concoctions written and developed under Martins tutelage and with his hand through every piece. He helped develop or redevelop almost every piece in the book except for a few completely original contributions.
So no, it's not strictly Martins own solo work, it was collaborative, But still gold.
As far art the whole LOST works thing that seems to be stirring up the blood, no, I guess it's not lost, but it's so incredibly rare that unless the maybe couple of dozen people who did buy it immediately began to place it on torrent sites, then it's still an incredibly rare an obviously impossible to find work that many people thought was pretty dang good.
So that's just to clarify up any more confusions and not angry up any more ghosts.
Hofzinser, what did you pay? I forgot. just let me give you back the money like I should have done ages ago and make reparations with you. It wasn't my intent to angry up your blood, but I obviously did.
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hofzinser
Veteran user
373 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 12:28am
Mike,
Thank you for the offer, but I'll pass. I still that if Martin Nash did NOT want this book published (for WHATEVER reason), then it is terribly wrong to wait a couple of years after he passes away and THEN try to market the product. Lost works.....take a look around at how many videos of Martin are out there for ANYONE to purchase....with Martin doing the performing and teaching. Then you have several sets of lecture notes, and of course the Trilogy. Martin's work is well preserved, exactly as he wanted it.
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JohnWells
Inner circle
The Southern Wild
1785 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 12:42am
Has this any relation to the Leftovers ebook available at lybrary.com?
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snape
Regular user
127 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 3:22am
I also asked for my money back when you announced there would be no hardcover book and started to refund some people but you never responded to any of my email inquiries.
Do I feel cheated? You bet.
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millusions
New user
94 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 11:27am
Sorry snape. Let's get you taken care of. Pm me and we'll get you set.
hofzinser, perhaps you are right. Stanyon suggested I go with mu gut. and I'm just not feeling it. I didn't mean to anger anyone. I wasn't out to make any money.
Perhaps one of you who have the original book might consider gathering the material that was just about martin and you can put it out separately as a freebie. Just a suggestion. I think I'll just distance myself from it again.
Sorry for all the trouble.
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Kingman
Loyal user
Cape Cod
227 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 4:05pm
Sorry to hear. I for one would have loved to see it. I never discovered Martin Nash until after he died. When I first saw his material I fell in love. I would have loved to have been able to get a copy of a book like that to add to my collection.
I guess you have to do what you feel is right.
Kingman
I took the Pledge
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Harry Lorayne
V.I.P.
New York City
5744 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 5:32pm
Interesting to me that people "never discovered Martin Nash." I wrote about him and used his material in Best of Friends volumes and in APOCALYPSE over the decades. Wrote about him first in the very first year of APOCALYPSE in 1978. He wrote many times how I was very influencial in him making card magic his life's work. Where have you all been?! Anyway... HL.
harrylorayne@earthlink.net
http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
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Kingman
Loyal user
Cape Cod
227 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 7:14pm
Well, Harry, as old as I am, my opportunities to really start learning about all the greats only began about 15 years ago and it was limited. Your books were way before my time to start learning about these guys. Even you, I only heard about in the last 15 years, as well as Darwin Ortiz, Dai Vernon and many others. I am making up for lost time as quickly as I can.
Kingman
I took the Pledge
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Harry Lorayne
V.I.P.
New York City
5744 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 7:32pm
Let me know when I can be of help.
harrylorayne@earthlink.net
http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
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Harry Lorayne
V.I.P.
New York City
5744 Posts
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Posted: Apr 13, 2012 7:36pm
Oh, for the record, one of the reasons - only one, not a very important one - for re-writing, upgrading - many of my books into the Classic Collection series/volumes - was that concept of "way before my time." Now, they're right "at your time." Just as they are, I'm told, by young boys in their teens. Anyway... Best - HL.
harrylorayne@earthlink.net
http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
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DaveM
Special user
Germany
754 Posts
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Posted: Apr 14, 2012 3:05am
I have several of his "Master Card Magician", as well as the entire "Charming Cheat" series on VHS. To be honest, I'm actually more interested in hearing about his life journey.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 14, 2012 1:46pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-13 00:28, hofzinser wrote:
I still that if Martin Nash did NOT want this book published (for WHATEVER reason), then it is terribly wrong to wait a couple of years after he passes away and THEN try to market the product. |
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Well now. If Martin did NOT want this published and/or it's not really composed completely of HIS material, then I am against publishing.
SEY
The Best Close Up Mats In The World
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snape
Regular user
127 Posts
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Posted: Apr 15, 2012 10:42am
Mike, Have you seen my PM from a few days ago?
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snape
Regular user
127 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 6:24am
Mike, Did you get my message?
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snape
Regular user
127 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 2:25pm
In case anyone wondered, I have not heard back from Mike (despite several messages) nor has he yet refunded me.
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