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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
It is great to be able to show people that you can take a legitimately shuffled deck and memorize it on the spot. In magic, though, you're usually trying to keep the memorized nature of the deck as a secret.
Hi, Just to say that I do not expose the fact I have memorised the deck. I do std memorised deck routines just not with a deck in any particular sequence. Phillip |
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Hi Guys,
This is one of my favorite topics and I would have jumped in sooner except that I'm recuperating from a car accident and havn't been in the Café much the past couple of days. As usual, Doug Scott, Martin, and others bring clarity and focus to the discussion. Many magicians are confused, and seem to think that algorithmic stacks can be substituted for memorized decks. As Simon points out, this is simply not the case. We are, to some extent, comparing apples and oranges. Should you decide to memorize a deck, you will have a powerful tool for card work. But, the Si Stebbins, Eight Kings, and Osterlind Stacks, etc, are still very effective for many effects. However, they are best used to simply determine the "next" card in the deck. If you have a deck set in any of those stacks, you have, in essence, a deck of 52 key cards. While it is possible to determine cards at distant locations, it's time consuming and rather difficult under fire. If you become proficient with a "true" memorized deck, you can effortlessly calculate the card which is ten, or twenty or thirty cards away. (Or any other number, of course.) But understand that a particular "stack" like the Aronson, is NOT a memorized deck! It's a full deck of cards that has been stacked to facilitate the performance of a whole series of effects. Many of them can be performed without memorizing the order of the cards. You, as the performer, must memorize a deck of cads. They can be in any order, including random order. It's a lot faster and easier than many magicians believe, and a lot of time and energy is wasted trying to make the process "easy." I believe that in the time it takes to read this thread, the average person could memorize the first ten cards of any stack they wish. So, if you want a powerful tool... memorize a deck of cards. I used mnemonics in the beginning, but it's certainly not necessary. Rote learning will get you there faster than you think. Of course, you will first have to select the order you want to learn. Doug's Quickstack is the fastest to learn that I know of, but Martin's stack is a little faster to learn than Simon's or Juan's. But, I think you will be well served by choosing the Aronson Stack right now because there is so much material available. Simon has 4 big books and each contains several strong effects to do with his stack. You'll find some more in Mike Close's Workers Series. And, you find some more in my memorized deck articles for Smoke and Mirrors. (13 to date, and more to come.) Remember that many memorized deck effects are stack-independent. So even if you learn Doug's Quick Stack (as an example), you can still do many tricks from Simon's books. (Or Juan's Videos.) When Steve Minsch finishes the english version of Juan's book, there will be a lot of stuff available for the Tamiriz stack. There's some right now... mostly on Juan's videos. Last I heard, the book will be out in a few months... but then we've been hearing that for some time. A personal note to my friends on the Café: For God's sake BUCKLE UP! I would have been killed last week if I didn't have my seat belt on. And, I would also not be here, if people at the scene had not pulled me from the wreck. The card subsequently burned to the ground! Dennis Loomis http://www.loomismagic.com
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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Hank Shand-Handy New user 75 Posts |
I'm still not sure if there is any need for a rule based system over a brute force memorised deck other than the advantages of not haveing to actually memorise anything. Are there specific effects that can be achieved with a rule based stack but not with a brute force stack?
As a side note Scott I must own up to the fact that my original post was intended for the earlier similar thread about memorised decks. That's why it sounded like I was giving my thoughts on the best way to memorise. Can't even remember which thread I'm reading. Oh, the irony. Hank
I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order.
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
To Hank,
Sure, there are some. Assume that the Si Stebbins is a "rule based" stack. (The rules are that the suits rotate Through Clubs, Hearts, Spades, and Diamonds and so on, and that the values increase by three.) There's a WONDERFUL trick in "The Card Magic of Nick Trost" called Automatic Lie Speller. (Page 155.) Nick does it very well... but Gene Anderson makes it into a MIRACLE! (And Gene doesn't do a lot of card tricks.) This trick can not be done with the Aronson Stack, Tamariz Stack, Joyal Stack, Quickstack, etc. And so, if you want to do it, you have to use the Si Stebbins. (It will probably work with Eight Kings or Hungry Jackass stacks as well.) But there are tradeoffs. You have to accept the fact that the cards alternate Red, Black, Red, Black, and so on. An Astute spectator might spot that. There are some excellent "Lie-Speller" effects that CAN be done with non-rule based stacks like the Aronson. But, a performer can certainly know and work with many arrangements and algorithmic stacks. Dennis Loomis http://www.loomismagic.com
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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MarkFarrar Veteran user U.S.A. 376 Posts |
If anybody wants any help in practising memorised deck work, I have a few tests on my website, in the Mnemonics section. So far, there is the Aronson stack and the Cassidy stack, as well as my own personal one.
Mark S. Farrar
Email: [email]MarkFarrar@TheMagicCircle.co.uk[/email] Web: www.MagicSquaresBook.com, www.RandMPublishing.com, www.TheDailyGoalMachine.com, www.ParvoBuster.com |
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Piers Inner circle A Limited Edition of 1394 Posts |
Threads like this are SO useful.
I've just bought Bound to Please, and relish others thoughts on how to best learn what looks like a superb stack. Piers. www.justgiving.com/piers-cancer-fund www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-2 www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-3 Finished my 4 months of Chemotherapy in 2009. 3 monthly checks since... and into 2021! As seen on the QE2 and QM2. Author of Salem's Cornucopia - SUC Book |
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boinko Elite user Illinois 427 Posts |
I've posted this before, but I'm saying again because I realized my method has an unexpected benefit: not only was I able to memorize the Tamariz and Aaronson stacks, I'm also able to memorize *any* deck of cards in about four or five minutes. (Granted, four or five minutes isn't fast, but my goal was to "memorize a deck" in a reasonable amount of time. I realize some folks here are able to do it within 45 seconds or so.)
My "method" is a mix of Dominic OBrien and Bob Farmer's methods. Specifically: OBrien (and, of course, many folks before him) advocate a "journey" method for memorizing a series of items. Fifty two stops along a memorized journey, and into each stop place a highly visual, highly specific person or thing. The advantage to the journey is that it's 'random access' -- you can recall any stop on the journey and immediately recall the item or visual markers associated with the stop. OBrien advocates people as the visual markers along the journey. I think that's probably the best way to do it, but a week before I found Dominic's stuff, I stumbled across Bob Farmer's 'Ahab/Queen of Halloween" explanation on Scott Cram's blog. (Farmer's method gives each card in the deck a very specific name derived from value/suit of the card. So, for example, the Ace of Hearts is 'Ahab', the three of clubs is the word 'Throwback', the ten of spades is 'Tennis.') Anyway, I combined Farmer's phonetic card words with OBrien's journey method -- and bingo -- the stack was memorized. The first time I did it -- with around 26 cards after I'd internalized all of Farmer's card words and made sure I knew exactly all the steps in my journey -- I shocked myself. I simply went through 26 cards, looked at each one, associated Farmer's word with the journey location -- and I did it. Hardest part was coming up with a very specific 52 stop journey. (And several more journeys for additional stacks and a 'short-term' journey for a quick deck run-through that's forgotten whenever I choose to forget it -- usually right afterwards.) I've increased my speed by putting *two* items at each stop of the journey (sort of like Dominic's person/action method). That works for the stacks I've memorized -- since I clearly want them long-term -- but it seems difficult for the short-term items. I'm still working on that. I've found this method surprisingly straightforward. The only issue is to associate numbers with each stop on the journey. So that, for example, you know that number 50 is 'Queen of Clubs' in the Aronson stack or whatever. But I've solved that by having floating key numbers every five steps in my journey. The key numbers are floating in the sky next to my location. But after practicing the stacks with actual effects -- out of Aronson's 'Try the Impossible' or 'Bound to Please' -- I've found that I quickly memorize the numbers anyway. Overall, it's been a fascinating challenge. I never figured I could memorize a stack, let along any shuffled deck of cards. So it's sort of interesting (to me, at least) to realize that your brain probably has a lot of hidden potential -- you just gotta figure out a way to uncover it. |
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BobMillerMAGIC! Regular user MN 103 Posts |
I just finished reading this whole thread and found it very useful.
I've learned a few things: 1) Like a commitment to a political party or a computer operating system, some people have pretty strong opinions about what is the best way to go about memorizing, and what is the best stack to memorize. And I'm no exception. I strongly believe in the Aronson / Mnemonic (stack/method). 2) Many people learn in different ways. And what works for one person doesn't have to be the method for someone else. There is no ONE RIGHT WAY. 3) My way is the best! OK. I have a particular performing need. Does anyone know of any tricks or books about memorizing a shuffled deck, in the process of performing other non-memory related tricks? Or am I nuts? I'd like to get a discussion going on this very particular subject on my forum at http://www.ProfitablePerformances.com Thanks. Bob Miller
PreDate: The NoMem Calendar Trick
http://www.BobMillerMagic.biz |
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Mito Veteran user Japan 319 Posts |
I'll stongly recommend the Dominic system one last time. One weekend of preparation and familiarization, and you're set for life.
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Amazing! Where in the world were ALL the above when I first taught how to remember playing cards in my first book on the subject in 1956!? And in seven or nine books since then? Amazing?! HARRY LORAYNE.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-07-01 21:48, Harry Lorayne wrote: Harry, I'm willing to bet that some of these have parents that were born after that! (Those of us with white hair remember black and white television and remember you as the "memory man". But we can't remember where we parked our car!) You were there. No doubt about it. Someday they will check the bibliography. It's good to see you on The Café. Take care. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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