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aa9gg
New user
1 Post
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Posted: Apr 16, 2012 10:23pm
What is the perfered size deck? Bridge or Poker? Does it really just depend on your hand size?
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M Sini
Inner circle
1200 Posts
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Posted: Apr 16, 2012 10:26pm
Poker. They are the easiest to find, most familiar with layman, and most gaffs are made in poker size.
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Magic-Daniel
Special user
Denmark
685 Posts
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Posted: Apr 16, 2012 11:27pm
Poker size is the only way to go - no matter your hands size
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BarryFernelius
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2111 Posts
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Posted: Apr 16, 2012 11:36pm
On a related topic, boxers or briefs? 
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."
-Pop Haydn
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The Burnaby Kid
Inner circle
GwangJu, South Korea
2720 Posts
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Posted: Apr 16, 2012 11:44pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-16 22:26, M Sini wrote:
Poker. They are the easiest to find, most familiar with layman...
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Depends where you are in the world. In some countries bridge is more common.
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Glenn Morphew
Veteran user
Chicago
395 Posts
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Posted: Apr 17, 2012 12:01am
Prior thoughts on the subject can be found here.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=412746&forum=2
Visit www.glennmorphew.com for information on
Bob's 3 Shell Boot Camp
The Rub-a-dub Deluxe
The Morphew One Hand Top Palm
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6927 Posts
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Posted: Apr 17, 2012 12:43am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-16 22:23, aa9gg wrote:
What is the perfered size deck? Bridge or Poker? Does it really just depend on your hand size?
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Use what you prefer. The audience doesn't care.
I prefer bridge because they make my hands look huge. I also where shoes 3 sizes larger than normal. When girls see my huge hands and feet...they can only come to one logical conclusion.
Sadly, they are disappointed later on.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 17, 2012 12:55am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-16 22:23, aa9gg wrote:
What is the perfered size deck? Bridge or Poker? Does it really just depend on your hand size? |
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I am not sure what you mean by "preferred size". If you're referring to what is most popular with magicians, then the answer would be Poker sized cards-- but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is the result of some sacred cows that need to be slaughtered.
Statement: Laymen are more familiar with Poker size than Bridge size.
Fact: Most laymen do NOT know the difference between Poker and Bridge Size. (Caveat: it may be different in other countries.)
Statement: Hand size doesn't matter.
Fact: Hand size DOES matter with some sleights, but in almost all cases, it does not preclude you from doing them.
Statement: If you perfect sleights with a Poker Deck, they'll be easier with a Bridge Deck.
Fact: It's not that simple. Regardless of what size you use, you'll probably have to make some adjustments if you switch. Work with both so you don't limit yourself, even if it's just in your practice sessions.
SEY
P.S. Jerry Andrus got away with MURDER by having HUGE hands and using Bridge sized cards...
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JamieUK
Regular user
119 Posts
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Posted: Apr 17, 2012 11:54am
I agree with Steve. No-one over here uses poker size for general play unless they've been on holiday to Vegas. I had no idea American cards were bigger until I started this magic lark. Since then I've used Poker size, and nobody has noticed the difference at all. I only use them because it's easier to get gaffs etc. Don't worry about it!
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ross welford
Inner circle
uk
1125 Posts
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Posted: Apr 18, 2012 1:18pm
If you're talking Bicycle gaffes, most of the commonest ones (DBs, DF,s blanks etc) are available in bridge size too, but many of the more specialist ones come only in poker size. As Jamie said above, in the UK bridge size is way more usual but no one gives a stuff. Likewise back designs. Bicycle riders, Bees, Tallys, Waddington's No1, company logos or the Houses of Parliament - it's just a pack of cards to most people.
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warren
Special user
uk
867 Posts
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Posted: Apr 18, 2012 1:21pm
I'm from the uk too and as already said its not very often that I come across a lay person that uses poker size cards.I use poker size Bicycle cards myself even though my hands are on the small side and its not very often someone questions what cards I'm using and when they do its usually about the brand not the size.
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Bluesman
Loyal user
Florida
277 Posts
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Posted: Apr 19, 2012 4:24pm
I use Bridge size. I think a lay person doesn't care what size you use.
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Believing
New user
63 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:55am
I think it's really up to what your prefer. However, I don't think hand size has much impact as others have said.
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BarryFernelius
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2111 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 1:27pm
I just did a scientific experiment. I performed the same trick for two different audiences. For the first audience, I used poker cards. For the second audience, I used bridge cards.
The trick, in both cases, was Juan Tamariz's 'Neither Blind Nor Silly.' The audiences were very vocal in their reponses, but nobody was talking about the size of the cards.
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."
-Pop Haydn
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 3:42pm
Derek Dingle said Poker sized. I believed him.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 5:29pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-20 15:42, magicfish wrote:
Derek Dingle said Poker sized. I believed him. |
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Nothing personal, but this is a huge fallacy-- appeal to authority.
Unless of course you can explain his precise reasoning... and if you can, I'd like to hear it.
SEY
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BarryFernelius
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2111 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 5:58pm
I've used both bridge and poker sized cards at different times. Full disclosure: I'm currently using Stud cards from Walgreens. (Hey you; yes you, over there. Quit giggling; that's not polite.)
Here's the bottom line: the only situations in which I've had people be concerned with the size (or color or brand or whatever) of the cards is when I perform for other magicians. No one else cares. Honest.
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."
-Pop Haydn
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 20, 2012 7:05pm
Yep. I think there are only two factors that should be involved in the decision: Personal preference and hand size.
SEY
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 11:00am
No problem, Steven, his reasoning was this:
If the budding cardician learns his trade with the larger cards, it will be much easier for him to adapt to a smaller deck when handed one in the field than it would be to learn with a smaller deck and adjust to a larger deck in the field. He was absolutely correct.
Now, granted, adjustments would have to be made either way, but I don't see how anyone can argue that its just as easy to go from small to large- it isn't.
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BarryFernelius
Inner circle
Still learning, even though I've made
2111 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 12:38pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 11:00, magicfish wrote:
If the budding cardician learns his trade with the larger cards, it will be much easier for him to adapt to a smaller deck when handed one in the field than it would be to learn with a smaller deck and adjust to a larger deck in the field.
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That's probably right, but the budding magician would be preparing for a situation that just doesn't happen very often. I've performed for the public for many years, including a ten year stint as the house magician at a dinner theater. In the context of performing my show, I've never, EVER had someone present me with a deck of cards and ask me to use their pack. (On some occasions, I've asked a host or hostess to purchase a deck of cards and bring it unopened to the show. That's a different matter.)
In informal situations, I've had people ask me to use their decks. When I'm with other magicians, I encounter poker sized decks most of the time. When it's a gathering of non-magicians, some decks have been poker sized and some have been bridge sized. The problem with many of these decks: filthy brown edges, bent up cards, and cards so sticky that they could not be spread properly. The size of the cards has been the least of my worries!
Again, other magicians care whether you can use poker sized cards. The rest of the populace could care less. If after your show, people are talking about the size of your deck, you're doing something wrong!
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."
-Pop Haydn
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 1:52pm
I agree that laymen couldn't care less about the size and I thank you for sharing your experience. And youre right, at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter. but you're only gonna practice with 1 size- at least I did. so what size are you gonna pick? well, all things being equal... it's gotta be poker.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 3:53pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 11:00, magicfish wrote:
No problem, Steven, his reasoning was this:
If the budding cardician learns his trade with the larger cards, it will be much easier for him to adapt to a smaller deck when handed one in the field than it would be to learn with a smaller deck and adjust to a larger deck in the field. He was absolutely correct. |
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Ah. First, that wasn't his reasoning-- it was around before he was even into magic (See "The Amateur Magician's Handbook"). Secondly, I can prove he was wrong. For some, this may be true but for most it is not. Switching from Bridge to Poker most often has adjustments for everyone and Vice Versa. For most, the adjustments are very small, but for many magicians the adjustments are not. So this statement often leaves beginners disappointed and frustrated.
Please do not misunderstand me. I have nothing against Dingle; his book is one of my all time favorites. It's the advice that's been repeated ad infinitum without checking. And we've all done it. As an old guy it's a bit grating.
SEY
SEY
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 9:59pm
I will respectfully disagree.
First, I didn't mean he was the first to come up with said reasoning, I just said that was his reason for giving that advice.
Second, lets take thw classic pass for example. If one is proficient with poker sized cards, the smaller cards should be no obstacle, although of course an adjustment would be necessary. But if the student had only practiced with bridge cards, don't you think those poker sized cards would seem like marble slabs?
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 10:18pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 21:59, magicfish wrote:
First, I didn't mean he was the first to come up with said reasoning, I just said that was his reason for giving that advice.
Second, lets take the classic pass for example. If one is proficient with poker sized cards, the smaller cards should be no obstacle, although of course an adjustment would be necessary. But if the student had only practiced with bridge cards, don't you think those poker sized cards would seem like marble slabs? |
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You're saying that in ALL cases, working with larger cards is more difficult for everyone and working with smaller cards is easier for everyone.
BUT that makes the assumption that everyone's hands are the same size, proportion, etc.
Since hand size/type varies among humans I posit that you cannot make such a sweeping generalization.
SEY
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 11:49pm
No. Im saying that in most cases, it is easier to make the adjustment from large to small than it is to make the adjustment from small to large.
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 11:56pm
I believe this to be a fairly universal principle in the physical world. I think its why batters on deck swing a sledge hammer. I think its why James Swain and some other classic passers recommend practicing passing two full decks - not only to build strength, but when you downsize to a single pack, voila, those halves are just flyin!
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 21, 2012 11:58pm
Generally, I believe, as Dingle and Henry Hay did, that its a little easier to downsize than to upsize. I suppose we could be wrong.
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 22, 2012 12:26am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 23:49, magicfish wrote:
No. I'm saying that in most cases, it is easier to make the adjustment from large to small than it is to make the adjustment from small to large. |
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What evidence do you have to support that this is true for the majority of people?
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 23:56, magicfish wrote:
I believe this to be a fairly universal principle in the physical world. |
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How did you come to that conclusion?
Quote:
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On 2012-04-21 23:58, magicfish wrote:
Generally, I believe, as Dingle and Henry Hay did, that its a little easier to downsize than to upsize. I suppose we could be wrong. |
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Is the point here to say that because Dingle and Henry Hay said/wrote something it has to be true and can be blindly accepted? Because that's the appeal to authority we started with... right?
SEY
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magicfish
Inner circle
2903 Posts
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Posted: Apr 22, 2012 12:56am
I don't think anything should be blindly accepted. Its just something I believe and I mentioned that Derek Dingle is the reason I started with Poker cards as a kid. Basically, the way I see it, if a ywould-be practitioner came to me wide-eyed and naive and tugged at my pant leg and asked me which size he should begin his card magic life with, I think the answer has to be poker size.
I think it is the better advice of the two options available. I cant put it any cleare than that.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this one?
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Steven Youell
V.I.P.
3866 Posts
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Posted: Apr 22, 2012 1:46am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-22 00:56, magicfish wrote:
I don't think anything should be blindly accepted. Its just something I believe... |
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Quite frankly, I find this to be contradictory. You don't think anything should be blindly accepted, yet you have no evidence for your view other than a few people you (and I) respect said it.
Quote:
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On 2012-04-22 00:56, magicfish wrote:
I think it is the better advice of the two options available. I can't put it any clearer than that. |
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That's my point. No reasoning. No logic. No evidence. I've asked several times for you to explain your reasoning, but all you do is repeat the same things. Dingle said it. Henry Hay said it. You believe it.
So you're right: we'll have to remain in disagreement on this.
SEY
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