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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 11:18am
What do think to this? http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/cogito/
It seems to me to be saying this explains how we create new things.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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cirrus
Inner circle
his minions made
1473 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 11:59am
No this explains how you make choices not how you create something. The answer to how we create is in psychology.
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 1:55pm
If we took something and traced it back we could see the choices that people had made to get it to where or what it is. If we made a different choice than they did at a step in its development then we would end up with something different or new.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 1:57pm
I create with macaroni and Elmer's Glue-All.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 2:04pm
Go back and see where you went wrong 
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2012 5:21pm
Should have gone with the School Glue.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 27, 2012 12:25pm
I only read the first few sentences to see that it is junk.
This business about quantum stuff is nowhere. (To put it politely.)
Right now it is an underststood fact that no one understands quantum theory.
Yet, pundits and wisemen such as those that wrote this article use it to explain the universe.
Yes, many with Ph. D. in Physics behind their name write this tripe as well.
Does that mean it is true?
If you challenge my wisdom, would you please read my book New Age Quantum Mechanics.
It is avaiable from Barns & Nobel and Amazon dot com.
Please don't hit me with a one liner on how I don't know what is going on.
I have a degree in Physics and put a lifetime in thought about it.
I will not say I am absolutely right in this but could you at least view my thoughts before you blast me.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Wizzard
Loyal user
221 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 3:28pm
Al,
You could not be more correct.
John
"Just the Facts,...... Just the Facts"
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:26pm
Still you can change things if you change things. I could not be more correct.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:24pm
And a rose is a rose.
A stone a stone.
A hershey bar a hershey bar.
There, I have written three truths in a row.
Does that means I always speak the turth and I am a wise man?
"Still you can change things if you change things. I could not be more correct."
What does that mean?
In math this is called a null solution. It is correct but is worthless.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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bishthemagish
Inner circle
5577 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:45pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-28 23:24, Al Schneider wrote:
And a rose is a rose.
A stone a stone.
A hershey bar a hershey bar.
There, I have written three truths in a row.
Does that means I always speak the turth and I am a wise man?
"Still you can change things if you change things. I could not be more correct."
What does that mean?
In math this is called a null solution. It is correct but is worthless.
Al Schneider
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Great to hear from you Al I hope you are doing well.
Just a few thoughts and opinion.
Glenn Bishop - Bish The Magish!
Magician, Card Sharp and Master Hypnotist.
http://glennbishopmagicandcards.blogspot.com
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2012 11:56pm
Glenn
I think of you often.
Had some rough times of late.
I think now an then I should visit you in the big Chi.
Got a set of 7 new DVDs coming out soon.
Would like to show them to you.
Al Schneide
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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bishthemagish
Inner circle
5577 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 12:02am
Quote:
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On 2012-04-28 23:56, Al Schneider wrote:
Glenn
I think of you often.
Had some rough times of late.
I think now an then I should visit you in the big Chi.
Got a set of 7 new DVDs coming out soon.
Would like to show them to you.
Al Schneide
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I moved from Chicago about ten years ago and might be moving again next year. I am very interested in your new DVD's. Keep me posted - I have your other DVD's and they are the great and I think your the greatest.
Just a few thoughts and opinion.
Glenn Bishop - Bish The Magish!
Magician, Card Sharp and Master Hypnotist.
http://glennbishopmagicandcards.blogspot.com
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 1:02pm
It means you can look at a magic effect and look at the choices that the magician made and make a different coice than he did along the way and you will have different effect than him. ie You look at magician who performs an act of transition, seeing he chose to claim it is his magic wand that caused the effect, you change that choice to say a teleport device that causes the effect and bingo you have different effect than him. Do you agree or not and if not why not?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 2:54pm
I do not care.
My point is that you started a thead based on an article using quantum mechanics as its basis.
My opinion is that it invalidates the argument.
From my point of view, that invalidates further discussion.
If you want to start another discussion, fine.
I suspect I would not challenge the beginning of a new thread.
I am very strong about this and here is a reason why.
In my career over the last 40 years I have worked on highly complex computer systems.
During the development such systems develop bugs.
Often the only way to solve these bugs is by pounding your mental head on a brick wall.
You know that one of them will break. I am often afraid it will be my head.
Here is a secret.
The instant you find a flaw in any logic flow, stop tracing the flow.
Many programmers will continue to work on the logic after the flaw.
This is insanity because the flaw violates any logic that follows.
Looking at logic after a flaw seems to be powerful emotionally.
This is perhaps becasue one has invested weeks looking at the logic.
The investment is intense and to stop looking actually is painful.
Therefore, I have hardened myself mentally to not go past a flaw, regardless of the investment of time I have made.
Ergo, I no longer care about this thread.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 3:05pm
Sorry.
One last thing.
Presently I am studying how people see quantum mechanics relative to self-determination.
I find the document you opened this thread with valuable in this quest.
I intend to study it thourghly.
So, thanks Tommy.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Jim-Callahan
V.I.P.
5018 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 3:28pm
Al, I find your opinion interesting and wonder what you think of quantum reality?
Do you think it is a truth or not?
I think it is but that is my opinion.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Best Wishes,
Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 5:07pm
My first answer is that I do not know what Quantum Reality is.
I did a search on the internet and anything associated with it is lengthy and contains a lot of tech-talk I do not understand.
The only coherent comment about quantum reality I found convenient to read was the following from a site about Star Trek.
"Quantum reality, or quantum universe, was the term used to describe the alternate timelines in which all possible outcomes for any event take place. Each quantum reality was its own separate parallel universe characterized by a unique quantum signature which could not be altered."
I found several references to Nick Herbert about quantum reality. I do not have his book and the references to it that I found do not explain what it is. In the past I have found Nick Herbert's writing tedious.
So, at this point I assume that quantum reality is about parallel universes.
I believe this is a worthless pursuit for the following reason.
The concept of parallel universes was first proposed by Feynman in an attempt to explain the results of double slit experiments. His conclusion was that to explain the results of this experiment, photons or particles that exhibit wave phenomena would need to take one of two different paths at each point in its motion through space. The only way this could be accomplished would be if each path occupied a different universe. From that point forward the parallel universe concept has permeated or society including new age folks and movies.
The reason I find this absurd is that quantum mechanics (at least in present academia) is not understood. Feynman himself said, "Anyone that claims to understand quantum mechanics does not understand quantum mechanics." My point here is that how can somebody come up with a conclusion that is based on a situation that is not understood?
This goes to my earlier statement; do not process a logic flow that goes past a flaw. The flaw is an admitted lack of understanding of what quantum mechanics is.
I believe that Feynman should have said when observing the odd behavior of photons and particles; "I don't know."
In essence, that is the answer to your question.
However, I have more to say as I have dedicated my life to the study of this subject.
The error in all of this is an over dependence on mathematics. Contemporary physics depends totally on math to interpret what is happening in the real world. For example on the first day of my Theoretical Mechanics course I took in college, the professor stood before the class and said, "In the past you have depended on pictures of arrows and images to study physics. Now you must throw that away and use pure mathematics to understand the universe." Interestingly when Feynman presented his theories to a body of contemporary physicists, the entire room attacked him for using pictures to describe the actions of photons and electrons. (QED)
This is an interesting point but I have gone beyond that by discovering why the confusion exists with the double slit experiment. There is a very simple explanation for it. Unfortunately one must study a bit of the history of physics to grasp the meaning of the explanation of it. This is presented in my book New Age Quantum Physics.
To attempt to convince about a bit of this consider what Feynman said in his QED book, “A photon is a particle. There is no doubt about that.” My book makes this very clear and shows how the photon can exhibit its weird behavior even though it appears as a wave. It is actually not a wave. As Mr. Feynman says, "It is a particle." Mathematically, it can appear as a wave. But that is only mathematical depending on how you interpret the mathematics. That is the rub.
Finally.
I am making the assumption that quantum reality is about multiple universes. I could be wrong for my search was not complete. Please correct me if I am wrong.
One last thing. I respect Feynman immensely. I wish I could have talked to him. I am certain we would have been great friends.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 6:05pm
Cogito means to shake things up. While one can not go back in time and shake up the world so it turns out different, one can go back and shake up a man made creation, since a man has made choices in the process of creating the things he has created. I think they are saying men create things like nature creates itself. It goes along and comes to fork and goes one one way or another more or less. Most of the so called new stuff we see in magic is old stuff that been shaken up. That is what I get out of that Cogito idea anyway.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 6:25pm
How did we get into "quantum reality" (and how does that relate to quantum mechanics - remember planck's constant takes meaningful distances down to 10 to the minus 33 of a meter) ?
At a first read, the Cogito approach described on that page appears to presume some ability to know what you know and to know how you decide. IMHO neither are useful ideas for realtime modeling of "agent" decision making.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pakar Ilusi
Inner circle
4631 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 6:54pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-29 14:54, Al Schneider wrote:
Here is a secret.
The instant you find a flaw in any logic flow, stop tracing the flow.
Many programmers will continue to work on the logic after the flaw.
This is insanity because the flaw violates any logic that follows.
Looking at logic after a flaw seems to be powerful emotionally.
This is perhaps because one has invested weeks looking at the logic.
The investment is intense and to stop looking actually is painful.
Therefore, I have hardened myself mentally to not go past a flaw, regardless of the investment of time I have made.
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That sir, IS the secret.
I am now a fan of your ideas.
If we only could only stop when we see a flaw. 
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 6:58pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-29 18:54, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
That sir, IS the secret.
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If it were a secret, you would not know it. Obvious by inspection. Using the argument proffered...
Instead I suggest that's just an excuse to be lazy, to not learn from others as they tell you what's happening in their inner model of reality.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13321 Posts
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Posted: Apr 29, 2012 8:23pm
What is happening in my inner and outer model of reality is musical.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 12:22am
Pakar Ilusi
Your bio says you are into martial arts.
What style and what level.
I have studied Tae Kwon Do for about 40 years.
Had my own school in Detroit.
Did some full contact competition.
Let me know.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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magicfish
Inner circle
2832 Posts
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Posted: Apr 30, 2012 10:04pm
Quote:
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On 2012-04-28 23:24, Al Schneider wrote:
And a rose is a rose.
A stone a stone.
A hershey bar a hershey bar.
There, I have written three truths in a row.
Does that means I always speak the turth and I am a wise man?
"Still you can change things if you change things. I could not be more correct."
What does that mean?
In math this is called a null solution. It is correct but is worthless.
Al Schneider
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....welcome to the world of Tommy. He hasnt been wrong in 300,000 posts.
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cirrus
Inner circle
his minions made
1473 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2012 8:18am
Peoples,
Before the attacks start, let's keep this civilized and rational.
Just talk about the topic, don't start flaming otherwise this thread is going to become pointless and damaging for all parties involved.
Just my 2 cents.
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ViolinKing
Loyal user
a regular user has no more than
220 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 2:19pm
I have no idea what this cogito article is saying. Anyone care to translate? Or, does anyone care to offer what the reason is for posting this?
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