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TonyB2009
Inner circle
3227 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 4:45pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 00:38, hoodrat wrote:
Here's a moral question for you: Do you think it's appropriate to report incidents of child molestation to the police that happened either last month OR as long as twenty years ago?
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Always report. I am surprised there is any doubt about that. The protection of children is of over-riding concern. The fact that the catholic church does not do this (they tend to put the abuser first) is why Ireland almost expelled their diplomatic representative here, why we removed our ambassador from the vatican, and why church attendance has dropped from ninety to less than thirty percent.
Our cardinal is about to be forced to resign because he didn't bother reporting an abuser, who went on to rape several dozen more children over the following fourteen years.
Critter, I was in a similar situation to you. The guy that showed an unhealthy interest in young girls was reported to the cops, isolated at the resort we worked in, removed from all contact with children, and very nearly killed by staff. We weren't content to !@#$% about him.
The proper response to a sex abuser is illegal. But since we can't shoot them, we must at least report them and take them out of circulation for the sake of the children they prey upon.
Check out Tony's new thriller The Gilli Gilli Man at Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Gilli-Tony-Black-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B007GFD0NQ/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1363055541&sr=8-16&keywords=The+Gilli+Gilli+Man
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 6:07pm
For justice fans. A deputy who was the guy who stood in courts during trials liked to camp and invited his friends kids. This was the bay area with busy parents many didn't mind (my friend who's wife worked with this deputy didn't let thei kid go when asked). The deputy got caught on multiple charges of molesting boys.
Imagine how his many years in San Quentin or Vacaville went as a combonation court cop and child molester.
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mastermindreader
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
6062 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 6:24pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 16:45, TonyB2009 wrote:
Always report. I am surprised there is any doubt about that.
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Why are you surprised? Here's the issue some of us are having- Assume a friend of yours confides in you that he/she was sexually molested by a family member twenty-five years ago and never reported it. The question is if YOU now have a duty to report it, even if you have no other personal knowledge of the situation.
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LobowolfXXX
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1597 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 8:14pm
Apparently, the death penalty is only the proper response if there *hasn't* been a trial. Who knew?!
-DFO
"All I wanted to do was work with John for the rest of my life."
LSAT tutor & author of "LSAT 60 Dissected," available online.
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:20pm
That's what Criss Angel said!
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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TomBoleware
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
1677 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 11:13pm
If it was twenty five years ago, those involved are adults now and there is no need to report it.
They can report it themselves. I sort of believe the obligation expires much quicker than most think.
Those working with children, and many other professionals such as doctors, law enforcement, etc,
are legally required to report any kind of child abuse or neglect.
As someone that works with children, I face a fine and prison time if I don't report it.
I believe, if I remember correctly, in my state I have 48 hours to report it.
The law also reads, if I mistakenly report an innocent person, they can't sue me. While I'm glad
I'm protected by the law too, I can see where some might question this part. But maybe that's the
price we have to pay to protect the kids.
Tom
Tom Boleware
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 11:21pm
I have no position about "others should" but can suggest making contact information for support resources available to those affected by the situation.
http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/hollis-triumph-over-tragedy/survivor-and-victims-resources/ for resources
http://www.survivorevents.net/4tformation.html too
Anne Marie Eriksson was my mother. Don't ask what the dinner table conversation was like.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pakar Ilusi
Inner circle
4631 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 2:21am
Wow Jon... Thanks for sharing.
I wouldn't have the courage.
From the website...
"Our relationship with ourselves is the most important relationship we need to maintain.
The quality of that relationship will determine the quality of our other relationships.
When we can tell ourselves how *we* feel, and accept our feelings, we can tell others.
When we can accept what we want and need, we will be ready to have our wants and needs met.
When we learn to take ourselves seriously, others will too.
When we learn to chuckle at ourselves, we will be ready to laugh with others.
When we have learned to trust ourselves, we will be trustworthy and ready to trust.
When we can be grateful for who we are, we will have achieved self-love.
When we have achieved self-love and accepting our wants and needs, we will be ready to give and receive love.
When we've learned to stand on our own two feet, we're ready to stand next to someone.
Meditation: Today, I will focus on having a good relationship with myself."
-Melody Beattie, The Language of Letting Go-
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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TonyB2009
Inner circle
3227 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 6:48am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 18:24, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 16:45, TonyB2009 wrote:
Always report. I am surprised there is any doubt about that.
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Why are you surprised? Here's the issue some of us are having- Assume a friend of yours confides in you that he/she was sexually molested by a family member twenty-five years ago and never reported it. The question is if YOU now have a duty to report it, even if you have no other personal knowledge of the situation.
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The answer is yes, I do have a duty to report it. Wouldn't hesitate for a moment.
Sex offenders reoffend. Not reporting gives them time to continue raping and abusing children.
Check out Tony's new thriller The Gilli Gilli Man at Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Gilli-Tony-Black-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B007GFD0NQ/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1363055541&sr=8-16&keywords=The+Gilli+Gilli+Man
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hoodrat
Veteran user
Southern California
379 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 8:32pm
Interesting replies. Thanks! The reason I started this topic was because I have a very good friend who told me recently that he was sexually abused three times over the course of a year or so by a church youth group leader. Apparently these incidents occurred about thirty years ago when he was 12 years old or so. They all occurred on church events like camping trips, sleepovers, field trips, etc.. He told me that he finally filed a complaint against the abuser (the guy is now in his 60s). The case is being investigated by the state police in my friend's home state. My friend was also able to provide the investigating officer the name of another guy who he knew was also abused on one of the camping trips all those years ago. Turns out this other abused guy did confer that he, too, had been molested and gave a statement to the investigating officer who went to his house to make an inquiry. I guess this other abused guy broke down in front of the officer and was crying and shaking as he retold the officer what the church youth group leader had done to him as well. Very sad....
I posed the initial question in this thread because I think what my friend is doing is the right thing even though it's been over 30 years. He has been informed by the state police that the statute of limitations has run out. However, I guess the state police are trying to get another angle on the case. Apparently, if they can find more recent victims from the last ten or fifteen years, the police could nail this older guy. My friend was told by the police that the abuser had worked with the Boy Scouts for a period of time. The abuser was also a high-school teacher for about nine years from the mid-1970s to the early 1980s. Apparently the abuser has never been caught.
Another close mutual friend of ours who was told this story said that my friend who was abused 30 years ago should NOT report this abuse to the police and should NOT launch an investigation because it happened so long ago and it would only cause more collateral damage to the abuser's wife, the abuser's adult children, and the abuser's grandchildren. I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Shouldn't this abuser be taken off the streets ASAP so that no other boy has to go through what my friend went through 30 years ago? Needless to say, I had a major argument with this other mutual friend on this very subject, and I think she and I are no longer friends. I support my abused friend's decision. I hope it works out for him.
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 8:42pm
I definitely think your friend did the right thing here. Also hope it all works out for him with this case and his life. He is brave and deserves to have justice and be happy.
I absolutely do not agree with the other friend who was worried about the abuser. My reply to that friend would include several variations of the "f" word.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 8:56pm
He did the right thing because the accused very likely had many more victims, maybe yesterday. This isn't the case of a drunk touching A 16 year olds butt. Your friend who said nothing should be said is an idiot.
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hoodrat
Veteran user
Southern California
379 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 10:55pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-04 20:42, critter wrote:
I definitely think your friend did the right thing here. Also hope it all works out for him with this case and his life. He is brave and deserves to have justice and be happy.
I absolutely do not agree with the other friend who was worried about the abuser. My reply to that friend would include several variations of the "f" word.
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The really odd thing about this other female friend of mine who said that the abuser should NOT be reported at this late date, etc. due to the possible collateral damage to the abuser's spouse and family is that she herself was sexually molested as a child! Furthermore, she also told me later on that if a state police officer ever came to her door out-of-the-blue and asked her if she knew anything about the man who abused her years ago or if she was, indeed, abused by him, she said she wouldn't say anything at all that would indict him. She said she would clam up and not say a word. How effed-up is that?? She and I are no longer friends as of this discussion -- a ten year friendship shot to hell because of her unbelievable reactions. Oh well. With friends like her, who needs enemies??
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mastermindreader
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
6062 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 11:05pm
I think your male friend did the right thing. As to your female friend, she was obviously greatly traumatized by the incident in her life and her reasons for never reporting it may well involve a good deal of shame, fear and psychological trauma. She confided in you because, obviously, she trusted you. Cutting off the friendship because she has an (understandably) warped view about what should be done to a molester seems a bit harsh.
If I cut off my normal friends just because we had disagreements about issues, I wouldn't have any friends at all!
Good thoughts,
Bob
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 11:25pm
I didn't tell anybody about what happened to me for many years. I was embarrassed and if anybody had asked me about it in high school I would have denied it.
I was also raised in the kind of environment where a man does not talk about the bad stuff that happened to him. He just sucks it up because that's the man's way.
One day after my divorce I realized I didn't give a crap what people thought about it and I told a couple of people.
He never went to jail, but karma got him.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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TomBoleware
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
1677 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 8:01am
I too say he did the right thing because that is what he felt he should do.
But I, like Bob, believe he did the wrong thing with the female.
She has a right to her opinion/choice too. To take that away from an adult is wrong.
I do wish them the best.
Tom
Tom Boleware
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 8:24am
According to my reliable source "those who do" tend to be family members and those entrusted by/within the family. Sadly it plainly follows that unchecked cycles of abuse can run through generations of a family and those close to them. If by "right" you mean "most likely to protect the neighbors children, the grandchildren and the spouse" - I can see the case for pursuing the matter.
There are also known instances of adults leading children to make false reports of abuse.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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TomBoleware
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
1677 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 9:39am
Good point Jonathan
Maybe "right" should read desire. I just think those wishing to get away from something like this that happened long ago should be allowed to do so.
Unless of course they do in fact know it is still going on with other children then they should report those cases. Even then, there are ways to help without having to relive your past in public.
I can't speak from experience, but I would imagine it's a tough decision either way.
Tom
Tom Boleware
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:32am
I don't know enough details of the woman friend's situation to know whether I agree with her personal decision or not. It is her decision though.
But it is likely that if there is any way for her to change her mind about telling it won't come from people turning their back on her. It will take a lot of trust building and respect for her to develop the self-respect to pursue it.
I don't know if that's true in her case or not since I don't know much about her, it's just something to consider before giving up on a friendship.
What I disagree with is her judgement of the other friend.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:33am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 09:39, TomBoleware wrote:
Maybe "right" should read desire. ...
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Whose desire then? And what of responsibility?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:35am
And if the abuser is still a threat to others then I hope she does change her mind. I definitely think it's wrong to knowingly let it happen to someone else.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Salguod Nairb
New user
I've dug 70 holes... now all I need are
70 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:39am
So far option 3 is sounding pretty good.
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jugglestruck
Special user
Wales
946 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:44am
Option 3 is not sounding good in any shape or form. It is a rather disturbing, nasty image.
www.jugglestruck.co.uk
www.lukecloseupmagician.com
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25244 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:50am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 11:35, critter wrote:
And if the abuser is still a threat to others...
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How do you presume to find this out before additional harm is done?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Salguod Nairb
New user
I've dug 70 holes... now all I need are
70 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:56am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 08:24, Jonathan Townsend wrote:...
There are also known instances of adults leading children to make false reports of abuse.
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Yep, situations like this movie Indictment: The McMartin Trial A very scary movie of what could happen.
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Mr. Mystoffelees
Inner circle
I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
3357 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 12:26pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-04 23:05, mastermindreader wrote:
I think your male friend did the right thing. As to your female friend, she was obviously greatly traumatized by the incident in her life and her reasons for never reporting it may well involve a good deal of shame, fear and psychological trauma. She confided in you because, obviously, she trusted you. Cutting off the friendship because she has an (understandably) warped view about what should be done to a molester seems a bit harsh.
If I cut off my normal friends just because we had disagreements about issues, I wouldn't have any friends at all!
Good thoughts,
Bob
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I agree. Would not a tolerable alternative for the female friend be to talk with the victim and offer support toward that victim reporting this now? I question the wisdom
of reporting something that is to you only hearsay, and quite damaging, but also can not agree with doing nothing. Perhaps with support the victim will see the need to report.
Jim
As I felt the soft, cool mud squish between my toes, I thought "Man, these are not very good shoes" Jack Handey
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 2:43pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 11:50, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 11:35, critter wrote:
And if the abuser is still a threat to others...
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How do you presume to find this out before additional harm is done?
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If you know a family member and their method then you know whether they have the ability to further implement that method.
Oh, you mean her. I don't presume anything about her.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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